Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

[danschance]

To those who think the gifts have ceased: Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts?

We clearly see in scripture that Jesus tells his disciples that He must go so the Comforter can come. As the Comforter comes we clearly see the gifts of the Spirit being disseminated in the body of Christ. Now it is written that this was the beginning of the last days and that they clearly were looking forward to the day Christ would return for His bride, even in their own time. We know that a great and terrible time is coming when the Antichrist will appear and persecute the church. The tribulation period will be far worse on the church than at any time previous.

So how is it that God has removed the gifts of the Spirit even when the worst period of time the church has ever seen has not happened yet and may soon be upon us? We still see Christians persecuted. The church is still reaching around the globe and spreading the good news in accordance with the Great Commission. The Spirit of the Antichrist is still loose in this world. We still have sickness, famine, disease and pestilence. We see sin abounding as the world embraces homosexuality, fornication, atheism, etc. Christ has not yet returned nor are we in the period of the Millennial Reign of Christ. Even so, some claim God has ceased the gifts???

So even though I see no reason for the gifts to cease and I see no change which could trigger the ceasing of the gifts, some claim they have ceased. Again, in your opinion what caused this? What triggered it? Do you have any theories?

 

[SpaceCowboy]

You know why the gifts stopped?
Because noone believes in them anymore.

There are still some people out there with enough faith to actually help people and look out for peoples well-being.
But for the most part, I think the Churches head has outgrown the heart.

 

[jb]

The gifts of the Holy Spirit and spiritual ministeries are promised right throughout the whole of the Age of Grace right up until 'the great and awesome day of the Lord' as Joel makes clear. Acts 2v16-21,38,39, (with Joel 2v28-32), 1Cor 12v7-11, Eph 4v7-16. The only reason Christians reject their present day operations is simply because, like the Israelites of old, through unbelief and disobedience they limit the Holy One of Israel! Psalm 78v41, Hebrews 3v1-4v16

 

[Hungry]

I think there are many gifted Christians. I think where there is a need, God fills it. I think many people choose not to use their gifts. When a football coach was asked how football benefitted America he shocked the interviewer with his response. He said it didn't. He said that he sees millions of people in desparate need of exercise sitting down watching twelve men in desparate need of a rest. The church as a whole is supposed to work as a unit each filling a role as in the body. The problem is all too many believers are satisfied just watching a handful of people carry the load. If God has gifted you with wealth give generously, if you are a leader lead, if you're a teacher teach if you're a worker work. Talking in tongues might not serve a purpose so there would be no reason for that gift to be allotted today in most places. If you see an area at your church that there is a need, step up. God might be calling you. I think there is going to be several people at the judgement holding the single talent that was hidden and uninvested.

 

[carey]

I believe some churches think the gifts have ceased because of a decieving spirit has convinced them it's true, so Christians will not operate in the gifts, I however believe they are still here, so long as the Holy Spirit is still here so are His gifts

 

[carey]

If all the other gifts are here, why wouldn't speaking in tongues?

 

[danschance]

You know why the gifts stopped?
Because noone believes in them anymore.

There are still some people out there with enough faith to actually help people and look out for peoples well-being.
But for the most part, I think the Churches head has outgrown the heart.

Well said and very poignant.

 

[RickyZ]

The gifts of the Holy Spirit and spiritual ministeries are promised right throughout the whole of the Age of Grace right up until 'the great and awesome day of the Lord' as Joel makes clear. Acts 2v16-21,38,39, (with Joel 2v28-32), 1Cor 12v7-11, Eph 4v7-16. The only reason Christians reject their present day operations is simply because, like the Israelites of old, through unbelief and disobedience they limit the Holy One of Israel! Psalm 78v41, Hebrews 3v1-4v16

For sure the gifts have not ceased, and the time is coming when they will be sorely needed. Glad you all agree with that. But in place of the words unbelief and disobedience, in mind among those here, I would use blindness and misleading. And not that they are misleading, but have instead been mislead and blinded. As one post above kinda said, what better way to disarm your enemy than convincing them they have no weapon? Or worse yet don't need one? There's years and decades of imprinting in some otherwise good saints that needs to be overcome. So let's be kind and try to reneducate instead of humiliate.



















Bonus points if you can source 'reneducate'

 

[crossnote]

I would be careful when it comes to seeking such though.

The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
(2Th 2:9-11)

Better to seek the Giver over the gifts.

 

[Abiding]

according to 1 cor 12 gifts are given severally as the "HolySpirit wills"
"operating in the gifts" is simply misunderstanding the whole
point of 1 Cor 12. And would change it to "as the person wills."
Faith does not make a gift of the Spirit appear.

 

[GreenNnice]

I think there are many gifted Christians. I think where there is a need, God fills it. I think many people choose not to use their gifts. When a football coach was asked how football benefitted America he shocked the interviewer with his response. He said it didn't. He said that he sees millions of people in desparate need of exercise sitting down watching twelve men in desparate need of a rest. The church as a whole is supposed to work as a unit each filling a role as in the body. The problem is all too many believers are satisfied just watching a handful of people carry the load. If God has gifted you with wealth give generously, if you are a leader lead, if you're a teacher teach if you're a worker work. Talking in tongues might not serve a purpose so there would be no reason for that gift to be allotted today in most places. If you see an area at your church that there is a need, step up. God might be calling you. I think there is going to be several people at the judgement holding the single talent that was hidden and uninvested.

They are here, ”the perfect comes,” is when they cease, our world is far from perfect. (1 Cor. 13)

The spiritual gifts are given as God individually wills and pleases and are for His reasons of seeing our being a pure vessel for their usage in another/others lives, for healing, comfort, mercy, and, always are going to be spiritually administered for God's glory.

”Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.”

The timing of God's use of spiritual gifts is His, and, if you read 1 Cor. 12 then one can see that the gifts come somewhat mysteriously, like ”great is The mystery of godliness,” and, then also, Paul tells us that we who are born again imputed the righteousness of Christ have ”the mind of Christ,” but NONE of us has the mind of God. Heady stuff.

Keep in mind that spiritual gifts should not be something one boasts of and, I think, a lot of the time, if not all the time, the person God individually wills a spiritual gift does NOT even know that God is doing such. And, why do you want to know? You really shouldn't, for to.go forth on faith means much more than needing a sign, which Jesus examplized doubting Thomas for contrasting those believing in Him with faith and those who needed a sign.
And, no, this is not a salvation issue, just an issue of better understanding how to faith fully delight yourself in the Lord's desires for us .
but, yes, I think, the Spirit gives one gifts when time is right for that person to so His work and, so to speak, the gifts are given to someone ”pure”, whose ”left hand does not know what the right is doing.
In this life, as 1 Cor. 1 teaches us, we are to boast of our faith in Christ, not our ”givens,”. for does a child boast? No, at leazt not in a brazen, haughty sense
, and, Scripture is clear, ww must be like a child in order to enter the kingdom.of Heaven. A child would be thrilled if they has some super power, and, I have a 12 yezr old nephew, so, i know of boasting. But, it is playful boasting, with no malcontented desires whatsoever. He simply wants to use his gifts to save earth, or, if ”Minecraft,” he wants to use his gifts to build a world.

Note: Hungerpanged one, I, as I say in my post, DON'T think we choose not to.use our gifts, it's just by faith they are used . And, most often, I don't think someone entrusted with a spiritu gift for a short time even knows God is at work. But, we are His workmanship, and, God just wants, through faith,bus to move and He will grow us (1 Cor. 3 and Eph. 2

 

[RickyZ]

according to 1 cor 12 gifts are given severally as the "HolySpirit wills"
"operating in the gifts" is simply misunderstanding the whole
point of 1 Cor 12. And would change it to "as the person wills."
Faith does not make a gift of the Spirit appear.

No, you're right, it's not according to our will, other than the will to partner with the Spirit or say no. If you're not open to partnering with the Spirit it doesn't matter which gift He's trying to give thru you, it's stymied. But no it's not at our command. It's at His command.

I would be careful when it comes to seeking such though.

The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
(2Th 2:9-11)

Better to seek the Giver over the gifts.

Excellent point. As with anything of God, satan and his minions will try to falsify it. To decieve and lead astray. That is why if you seek the Giver instead of the gifts, you will never be deceived and lead astray in their use.

It's not about having God's power, but being available to it.

 

[Elizabeth619]

It is after midnight. Just got home from the funeral home. So I'm too tired to get deep in to this tonight but I do have a sincere question.

Many believe we are in the end times. Rev 13 says satan(antichrist) will do signs and wonders. So wouldn't this mean he could heal, do miracles and so on with intent of deceiving?


No. I'm not saying those who claim to have gifts are decieving. I'm just concentrating on this specific passage right now.

I am currently "backing off" on arguing about whether gifts are around or not. I just want to know if they do exist they are coming from God. If satan has the power to do similar things for the purpose of evil then everyone needs to carefully examine the wonders they've experienced to make sure they line up with scripture. If a miracle, sign etc. lines up with scripture 100% then I'll believe they still exist.

 

[Abiding]

the message is more important than the sign and wonder.
Who does it glorify? The person? and their comfy needs?
The Holyspirit will always magnify the Lord and not speak of
Himself or puff up the people.
People seek power and recognition and status. the Holyspirit
seeks to edify and glorify Jesus.

 

[JaumeJ]

Just as any spiritual gift from God is imparted by the Holy Spirit, no one can say in the Holy Spirit that God's gifts have stopped however any who have experienced serving with the power from God can say they do exist to this day. Granted in the last heart beats of this age there will be few with wisdom who will have little help, yet they will have help from our Maker. In so much darkness even a little light shines brightly, may everyone have his lamp filled in service to our heavenly Father with the strength afforded by His Holy Spirit, amen.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit and spiritual ministeries are promised right throughout the whole of the Age of Grace right up until 'the great and awesome day of the Lord' as Joel makes clear. Acts 2v16-21,38,39, (with Joel 2v28-32), 1Cor 12v7-11, Eph 4v7-16. The only reason Christians reject their present day operations is simply because, like the Israelites of old, through unbelief and disobedience they limit the Holy One of Israel! Psalm 78v41, Hebrews 3v1-4v16

 

[my_adonai_]

Bottom line, they have not ceased, they still operate and unto everyone here, The Holy Spirit can impart a gift as He wills..

but i think many operate on the verses
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

not understanding the message being preached here.

 

[my_adonai_]

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

we are not yet perfected, and another reason why there is trouble in the church is that the people with these gifts are not operating as GOD wants them to,and some do not accept them, and some that do have and know that they do have become Prideful.

JESUS help us all.

 

[mark54]

the message is more important than the sign and wonder.
QUOTE]


True, but in biblical times signs, wonders and miracles followed the true message being preached, an endorsement of it you could say

So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders
Acts14:3

This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Heb2:3&4

I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— [SUP]19 [/SUP]by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God

Rom15:18&19

 

[mark54]

To those who think the gifts have ceased: Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts?

QUOTE]

The theologians and scholars that came along?

The NT church was known as 'The Way' they lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. I have been told the church that emerged a few centuries later, and endorsed by the state was almost unrecognisable from the early church. The writings of scholars and theologians who had poured over the scriptures held sway, and by this time the 'gifts of the Spirit' seemed to be hardly heard of

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus said it is a sinful generation that seeks signs when asked to demonstrate He is God, the Messiah, however, as you have so well put, faith is accompanied often by signs and wonders by those who already have faith. This twist of meaning has deceived so many and this should not be so. Bless the family in Yeshua always, amen.

the message is more important than the sign and wonder.
QUOTE]


True, but in biblical times signs, wonders and miracles followed the true message being preached, an endorsement of it you could say

So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders
Acts14:3

This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Heb2:3&4

I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— [SUP]19 [/SUP]by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God

Rom15:18&19