Faith Alone?

[Grace777x70]

So..what are the Lord's commandments in the New Covenant ( this is where we live now after Jesus died for our sins on the cross ).

John tells us exactly what they are.

1 John 3:22-24 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

To believe in the name of Christ and to love one another are the New Covenant believers commandments.

The gospel of grace provides all of the above for us.

How come I cannot get a Catholic who believes in good works to tell me:

Seriously, you guys are the ones saying this stuff and then projecting it onto others. You guys need to OWN those kind of statements because you're the ones saying it.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The above shows faith because he comes to Christ for the answer to eternal life
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.<<Says to keep the commandments, as an answer to having eternal life.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself <<<More commandments...yes I know the last one was not part of the 10
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, <<--Works and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

[Ahwatukee]

How come I cannot get a Catholic who believes in good works to tell me:

Seriously, you guys are the ones saying this stuff and then projecting it onto others. You guys need to OWN those kind of statements because you're the ones saying it.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The above shows faith because he comes to Christ for the answer to eternal life
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.<<Says to keep the commandments, as an answer to having eternal life.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself <<<More commandments...yes I know the last one was not part of the 10
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, <<--Works and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Hello Babylonisfalling,

You have keep in mind that Jesus had not yet been crucified, which is obvious since the man is speaking with him and so the law was still in affect. For all of those after Christ's crucifixion, the answer for salvation is to believe in the One whom God sent:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Ahhhh..gotcha.

Ok....This is very common...I thought you were going to bring this up

Jesus was speaking to the rich young ruler and Jesus gave him the law because he said.."what must I do".. to inherit eternal life. Jesus knowing our hearts gave the ruler the law because he was basing his self-righteousness on what he does. <<<Sorry but your making that reason up out of thin air. We know that one purpose of the law was to bring us to Christ. To reveal sin so that we would know we needed a Savior.

This ruler had broken the very first commandment. Jesus revealed that by telling him to sell everything he had. Jesus revealed that the rulers treasure was really his god.

We know that to inherit eternal life is to believe on Jesus who the Father sent.

If we were to keep the commandments for eternal life - none of us would make it.

If we were to obey all of Jesus's commandments then let's see how we are doing?

Jesus also said :

"If your hand causes you to steal..cut it off."...I still have my hands..I didn't obey that one...

" If your eye cause you to lust..pluck it out." I didn't obey that one either

"be perfect.as your Father is perfect"...how are we doing with that one?..not good

Jesus was the greatest law preacher - to those who were trying to life by their own good works...He gave them Moses 2.0 version to reveal they need a Savior

Jesus was the greatest grace preacher - to those that knew they needed a Savior and that they couldn't keep the commandments....He gave them grace.

We always need to rightly divide the word of God.

Don't take someone else's medicine.

If the ruler were wrongly basing his self righteous on what he does then (which isn't stated in the passage) then Christ would have simply corrected him and steered him into faith only. Then he wouldn't have had to go away sorrowful. This was a time for Christ to correct the guy about works and teach faith only...if that were the correct teaching. You're just creating non Biblical reasons to support a no-works religion.

And the way Christ told him to be perfect was by a good work and you know it. Yes the ruler loved his money too much. That's old knowledge, been known for 2000 years. Christ told him address it selling it and giving it to the poor...a good work.

People know when you're inserting your own religion into Scripture. You never convince anyone with that stuff.

And by the way, I still need to know why I can't get a believer in works to tell me this kind of stuff...

If we could do good works and keep the commandments we would have no need of Christ's grace.

It really is only you guys that tell me this kind of stuff.
How did you ever come to believe this and why are you projecting it onto others?

 

[Grace777x70]

The ruler got the medicine he needed to reveal what was in his heart. He got the law. The purpose of the law is in Romans 3:20 Romans 7:8 Romans 7:10-11

the main reason for the law is to lead us to Christ!

Galatians 3:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.


I believer in works doesn't say this stuff because they believe in works!...and we are after all a product of what we believe.

You don't have to believe me....this verse is great for these kinds of situations..
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

If the ruler were wrongly basing his self righteous on what he does then (which isn't stated in the passage) then Christ would have simply corrected him and steered him into faith only. Then he wouldn't have had to go away sorrowful. This was a time for Christ to correct the guy about works and teach faith only...if that were the correct teaching. You're just creating non Biblical reasons to support a no-works religion.

And the way Christ told him to be perfect was by a good work and you know it. Yes the ruler loved his money too much. That's old knowledge, been known for 2000 years. Christ told him address it selling it and giving it to the poor...a good work.

People know when you're inserting your own religion into Scripture. You never convince anyone with that stuff.

And by the way, I still need to know why I can't get a believer in works to tell me this kind of stuff...

It really is only you guys that tell me this kind of stuff.
How did you ever come to believe this and why are you projecting it onto others?

 

[mailmandan]

The ruler got the medicine he needed to reveal what was in his heart. He got the law. The purpose of the law is in Romans 3:20 Romans 7:8 Romans 7:10-11

the main reason for the law is to lead us to Christ!

Galatians 3:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Amen! Before showing him the way to eternal life, Jesus wanted to impress on the young man both the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merit. This should have elicited a response about the impossibility of keeping the law perfectly, but instead the young man confidently (and self righteously) declared that he qualified for heaven under those terms (vs. 20). This young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation (John 3:18), and continued to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could never part with his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

If perfectly keeping the commandments is the normal way to eternal life why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked what must he do to be saved by replying; keep the commandments and you will be saved, but instead, he said - "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Jesus knows the hearts of all people. Jesus responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or Nicodemus or this person the same way. Yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation through believing in Him/faith, not works (John 3:15,16,18; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6 etc..).

 

[Grace777x70]

I understand when we hear things being said that violate what we heard all our lives and it is upsetting...I had my mind filled with all kinds of stuff....and I'm still just starting to have my mind renewed!

Amen! Before showing him the way to eternal life, Jesus wanted to impress on the young man both the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merit. This should have elicited a response about the impossibility of keeping the law perfectly, but instead the young man confidently (and self righteously) declared that he qualified for heaven under those terms (vs. 20). This young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation (John 3:18), and continued to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could never part with his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

If perfectly keeping the commandments is the normal way to eternal life why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked what must he do to be saved by replying; keep the commandments and you will be saved, but instead, he said - "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Jesus knows the hearts of all people. Jesus responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or Nicodemus or this person the same way. Yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation through believing in Him/faith, not works (John 3:15,16,18; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6 etc..).

 

[Babylonisfalling]

The ruler got the medicine he needed to reveal what was in his heart. He got the law. The purpose of the law is in Romans 3:20 Romans 7:8 Romans 7:10-11

the main reason for the law is to lead us to Christ!

Galatians 3:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.


I believer in works doesn't say this stuff because they believe in works!...and we are after all a product of what we believe.

You don't have to believe me....this verse is great for these kinds of situations..
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

He got a lot more than that and you know it. He got told by Jesus Christ to go out and do something.

And I've never heard a believer in works ever talk about not needing grace. That's all you.

Everyone I know who believes in works still believes they need grace . It's those who don't believe in works who turn around and start talking about not needing grace.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Hello Babylonisfalling,

You have keep in mind that Jesus had not yet been crucified, which is obvious since the man is speaking with him and so the law was still in affect. For all of those after Christ's crucifixion, the answer for salvation is to believe in the One whom God sent:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

So faith was not in play before the crucifixion?
Is that where you're going with this?

 

[Hoffco]

If the ruler were wrongly basing his self righteous on what he does then (which isn't stated in the passage) then Christ would have simply corrected him and steered him into faith only. Then he wouldn't have had to go away sorrowful. This was a time for Christ to correct the guy about works and teach faith only...if that were the correct teaching. You're just creating non Biblical reasons to support a no-works religion.

And the way Christ told him to be perfect was by a good work and you know it. Yes the ruler loved his money too much. That's old knowledge, been known for 2000 years. Christ told him address it selling it and giving it to the poor...a good work.

People know when you're inserting your own religion into Scripture. You never convince anyone with that stuff.

And by the way, I still need to know why I can't get a believer in works to tell me this kind of stuff...

It really is only you guys that tell me this kind of stuff.
How did you ever come to believe this and why are you projecting it onto others?

This post is great and deserves to be reread. ! Jesus ALWAYS taught Works always comes with true Faith. Jesus rejected a false "faith only" with out works. Jh.2:23-25 and in Jh.3:21 Jesus said that good words alway are associated with being born again and trusting Jesus. Eph.2:1-10 is soo clear: We are "dead" in sin , God makes us "alive" ,New birth. We are saved by Grace thru faith,(Gift of God) "unto good works" . what could be clearer.??

 

[Hoffco]

I think we have driven the fake "faith alone" preacher back to their prayer closets to hear from God. I hope.

 

[Hoffco]

I have been praying thru the Gospels; No way, can one say ,Jesus preached a "faith alone" gospel. Jesus preached a Repent, Faith and Obey "Him" only Gospel.

 

[Hoffco]

I just heard John MacArthur say ,"salvation was by faith alone and not some kind off mixture of .grace, faith and works". Sad to see a giant like him fall.

 

[Hoffco]

Eph. 2 1-10 is: salvation by Grace thru Faith unto Works. That is not a bad mixture of error, IT is the TRUTH.!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Eph. 2 1-10 is: salvation by Grace thru Faith unto Works. That is not a bad mixture of error, IT is the TRUTH.!

Hello Hoffco,

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Faith in Christ allows us to be free from the curse of the law and abound in good works for the glory of God, but we are not saved by those good works, otherwise salvation would no longer be a free gift, but earned.

 

[plaintalk]

Faith, Hope, Love and Grace
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Cor. 13: 13)
Faith is our introduction to the grace of God by which we are saved (Rom. 5:2). As such it is indispensable, without faith it is impossible to be pleasing to God (Heb. 11: 6); but faith is not our only connection, faith hope and love coexist in a relationship of mutual dependency, and faith is not the greatest of the three, that distinction belongs to love. All three are indispensable to a relationship with God. Friends, salvation is not by faith alone. During the Reformation the idea of salvation by grace through faith alone came into prominence as an over-correction to the salvation by works doctrine of the primary western church. The “faith alone” concept is found only once in English translations of the Bible and it is repudiated at that place (James 2: 24). The second reason for the rise of the “faith alone” doctrine was the inability to distinguish between works of faith and works of the law. Works of faith (1 Thess. 1: 3) and the obedience of faith (Rom 1: 5) are by definition “of faith” whereas the law and its works are not of faith (Gal. 3: 12). The recognition of the two, distinct, separate categories of works, eliminates many of the supposed difficulties in the passages that deal with works.
Those that believe have passed from death into life (John 5: 24) but those who love have also made this transition. (1 John 3: 14) Those that believe have eternal life (John 3: 16) but those that love are also promised eternal life. (James 1: 12). Love is the very nature of God; we come to love God and others as a learned response; we love because He first loved us. Love is recognized as the great commandment of both the old and new covenant (Matt 22: 36-40; 1 Cor. 13: 13); love is the proof of discipleship (John 13: 35); love is the impetus for obedience (John 14: 15); we love by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 5: 5); love is the fulfillment of the law (Rom. 13: 8); God gives all things to those that love Him (1 Cor. 2: 9); to love God is to know God (1 Cor. 8; 3); faith works through love (Gal. 5: 6); love and faith are both fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5: 22, 23); the kingdom is promised to those that love him (James 2: 5); love is the royal law (James 2: 8) those that keep his commandments, the love God is perfected and know that He is in them (1 John 2: 5); Jesus commandment is that we should believe in His name and love one another (1 John 3: 23); every one that loves is born of God and knows God (1 John 4: 7)
We are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2: 8, 9), but we are also saved through hope (Rom. 8: 24); our hearts are cleansed by faith (Acts 15: 9), but our hearts are also purified by hope (1 John 3: 3); 1 Pet 1: 3 hope is built on the resurrection, the one faith is one of the seven pillars of the unity of the Spirit just as is the one hope. (Eph. 4: 3-6); we are made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3: 7); we draw near to God through hope (Heb. 7: 19); hope is an anchor of the soul that enters into heaven (Heb. 6: 19); hope is received by the grace of God (2 Thess. 2: 16) even as faith (Acts 18: 27); our hope is in God that there shall be a resurrection of the dead (Acts 24: 15); we abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit (Rom. 15: 13); Christ is our hope (1 Cor. 15: 19; 1 Tim. 1: 2); faith, hope and love work together in our lives (Col. 1: 4,5); hope produces steadfastness (1 Thess. 1: 3) hope, faith and love are the armor of God (1 Thess. 5: 8); faith is the assurance of things hoped for (Heb. 11: 1)

Faith, hope and love are integral parts of the Christian life. [SUP]4 [/SUP]since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints;[SUP] 5 [/SUP]because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel (Col 1: 4, 5)
Faith, hope and love are integral parts of the Christian armor.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. (1 Thess. 5: 8)
Faith, hope and love are integral parts in our response to the grace of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father, (1 Thess. 1: 3) Faith authenticates, hope provides steadfastness and love motivates.
The Scriptures often speak of salvation by grace through faith, cleansing by faith and receiving eternal life by faith but they never speak of receiving those things through faith alone. God bless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eph. 2 1-10 is: salvation by Grace thru Faith unto Works. That is not a bad mixture of error, IT is the TRUTH.!

yes it is

We are saved by the means of grace through faith alone in the work of God

Once we repent and come to that faith and say yes lord, I want your salvation.

God makes us a new creature, who is able to do good works..(vs 10)

but if salvation does not occur, because we lack faith, all our works is as bloody rags, and will be rejected by God on judgment day.

Matthew 7:23
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[plaintalk]

To crossnote: you say, " So we are justified by faith alone (as God declares) yet that faith is not alone." With all due respect to you and Martin Luther, that quote has always seemed like double talk to me. Please tell us where God has declared that we are justified by faith alone. James says, YOU SEE THAT A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE. (JAMES 2: 24) NASB. Are we saved by faith without regard to calling on the name of the Lord (Acts 2: 21), repentance (2 Cor. 7: 10), baptism (Mark 16: 15, 16) confessing the name of Christ (Rom 10; 10) or the obedience of faith (Heb. 5: 9), hope (Rom. 8: 24) and love (1 John 3: 14)? God bless.

 

[plaintalk]

To danschance, #3, the angel of the Lord told Abraham, FOR NOW I KNOW THAT YOU FEAR GOD. (Gen. 22: 12) IMO we are not saved by faith alone, we are saved by a "perfected" faith (James 2: 22), a faith that works through love. (Gal. 5: 6), a faith that obeys. (Heb. 5; 9) Faith without works of faith is dead and useless. (James 2: 17, 20) James puts it like this, YOU SEE THAT A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE. (James 2: 24) IMO we are saved by grace through faith which works in love. God bless.

 

[Hoffco]

Good job sharing the true, plaintalk; The problem is ,these people just DON'T have"ears to hear" what God says to the Churches. I will try again, Rom.6:22 says The free gift of salvation is by the power of God's new birth, God frees us from sin and enslave us to God, to do good works for God; by the good works we qualify for eternal life.

 

[Hoffco]

In Mt.7:23 Jesus is very clear with those wicked persons; Jesus did not want them because they had no personal holiness in their knowledge and experience in the power of God. They were never loved of God, not chosen, not predestined to be holy like Jesus; Rom.6:29. They were ungodly sinners. Obvious, Jesus will not receive unholy sinners in to Heaven, this fact is very clear.! Judas was never loved, savingly, by God.