Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear

Tan · Dec 20, 2012

God's law is perfect!

When God said Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. it happened, when he commanded that the oceans be, they came into existence. God is all-powerful. What He says is never futile, empty, or without power.

The Law is a reflection of God's character.

It is pure! Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him and perfect!

Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

It is powerful: Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The 10 commandments reflect God's holiness and Justice. These commandments are not without punishments. A Law without consequences is only an empty slogan.

To sin is to break God's law

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. and offends his character.

To sin means to challenge His character and authority, it means to go against his word. Paul said in (Romans 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Keep in mind Hebrews 6:18

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

His word is true!

Isaiah 55 v11: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

He has said it, and it will be accomplished praise be to God,

Romans 5:8 But God commended his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. there is no way we can be clean before God.

That is why God became one of us Lets go into John 1v1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 2v 17: Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. To take our place and become sin on our behalf

2 Corinthians 5v 21: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

therefore people we have 2 options.

1. Trust Jesus, God in flesh, as your saviour and put your faith in the sacrifice that He made on the cross and in nothing you do.

2.Reject Jesus and the sacrifice that He made and let the penalty of the Law fall upon you.

Either God pays or you do, forever. which will it be?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, if there is no sacrifice available for you, then God's wrath abides upon you because He hates sin and your sins is not removed

John 3v36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Trust Jesus alone or the wrath of God will abide upon you forever.

Kefa52 · Dec 20, 2012

Obedience comes from developing a loving relationship with Christ.
The more we learn to love Jesus, the more we will obey out of love for him.

spirit1st · Dec 20, 2012

We are Not under the laws of Moses! We are under the law of Christ Jesus !LOVe and Faith ! The New Covenant! He writes in our Heart [Spirit] The law of Moses was to bring us to Jesus ! Then we are No longer under them ! That why we do not keep the old sabbath! Now we give every day as unto too the LORD not just one day ! We are Now living sacrifices living endless lives for Him and His glory ! Listen we try our best Not to sin ! But we all do at times! We ask to be forgiven ,because our flesh can suffer for sin and we know it hurts our Lord for us to Sin! We hate sin ! We Love and Stand in faith as much as we can?
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Rom_4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom_4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom_4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
　

know1 · Dec 21, 2012

Tan said:

The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God.
Go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so. Sisters and brothers I pray that you read your bibles for yourselves and pray for understanding.

And don’t let some unlearned false preacher deceive you. The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed. I know that some will say, well we don’t know if the seventh day in Jesus time is the same seventh day now. Well the bible says: (Mat 28:1) In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Now this proves that in Jesus day when the Sabbath (Saturday) ended the first day of the week (Sunday) began. Guess what? In our day when the seventh day ends the first day of the week begins, no change!

I have a question for you sir...after I make a statement.
I have not been to church in over 15 or maybe 20 years.
According to your belief, what would happen to me if I were to die at this time in my life?

Tan · Dec 22, 2012

Kefa52 said:

Let ys use a little common sense, when you walk in other people doorman, or establishment you have to abide by there rules, as soon as they are give to you. When people come over to your house do you wait until you love them fisrt, before you tell people the rules of your house. Jesus said in John (14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. I agree that we have to learn, but if you really understood the uncut word of God you will fear what will happen to disobedient people, if they do not keep the Lord's laws (commandments). They will not be in the book of life. Lets go into Revelation 20: 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Tan · Dec 22, 2012

know1 said:

That a good question...but before I answer I need to know why? Also need to know your faith...Sunday or Christain Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (as written in the BIble from Genesis to Revelation to keep, which is Saturday)

Tan · Dec 22, 2012

spirit1st said:

Lets reread those verses in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself. (v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). (v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law. How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. (v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God.

Paul said in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Blain · Dec 22, 2012

Tan said:

Let ys use a little common sense, when you walk in other people doorman, or establishment you have to abide by there rules, as soon as they are give to you. When people come over to your house do you wait until you love them fisrt, before you tell people the rules of your house. Jesus said in John (14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. I agree that we have to learn, but if you really understood the uncut word of God you will fear what will happen to disobedient people, if they do not keep the Lord's laws (commandments). They will not be in the book of life. Lets go into Revelation 20: 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

ok tan according you we including you are all going to burn in hell because we cannot keep all his commandments. when you become perfect then come and tell us these things.

loveme1 · Dec 23, 2012

Matthew 22

Exodus 20

20 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

13 Thou shalt not kill.

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

22 And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

Tan · Dec 24, 2012

Blain said:

I thought Sunday doctrine believe they can do anything in Christ?! Why can't we keep the commandments?...you mean you like to steal, commit adultry, bear false witmess, etc, you mean you can't stop doing those things. You have know control over your self. Paul said in Romans 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Stop telling me people what they can't do in Jesus Christ!! If you can't keep the Law (commandments) then that will be your short coming. Paul said in 1Corinthians 6: 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Blain · Dec 24, 2012

Tan said:

Well once again tan i congratulate you on using your skillful art of using scripture for your own agenda
, but are you saying you never break gthe commandments? not even once? I was not sying i have no self control my point was you break them too. this law you cling to so closely goes for you too, you cannot go around say the things you do to people because you are then a hypocrite. we should at least try our best to follow his commandments but not out of fear because that is not what god had inteneded. god is the very being of love, fear comes from satan, not fear as in respect fear in regard to being scared out of our pants. I refuse to live in fear of gods wrath because he is not the god you say he is.

AgapeSpiritEyes · Dec 24, 2012

In the Old Testament Solomon says the fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom ( solution of the problem i.e. lack, missing the mark, sin etc.) but praise the Lord the completion and perfection of wisdom is that His perfect Love casts out ALL FEAR, for fear bring with it torment and torment is remove by mercy grace and Omnipotent Agape Love, There IS NO FEAR IN Agape, i can testify to this by His love He birthed me into His kingdom,Fear did have a part in leading me to inquire of His love for me pulling me out of the torments of hell.

spirit1st · Dec 25, 2012

GOD does not want us to FEAR! God wants us to obey out of LOVE ! Nothing is worth anything if it Not Done Out of LOVE!
I asked the LORD once! I said LORD , if our body and it mind dies and is gone forever more !What does our Spirit with it mind take with it ?
He said only those things we did out of pure LOVE ! that why we remember our Dads and Moms we really loved them !

1Jn_4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

He Now after salvation writes HIS eternal laws in our Heart {SPIRIT] Love and faith ! Those are the Only eternal laws !

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Rom_4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God

know1 · Dec 26, 2012

Tan said:

Sorry it took me so long to reply.
I apologize for being a little obtuse, but I fail to see why you need to know why I asked and what my faith is regarding the Sabbath.
Why? Curiosity.
No offense intended but seeing that I have already said that I haven't been to church in more than 20 years, the question concerning the Sabbath would appear to be nonsensical. Whether it is on a Saturday or Sunday, does not apply to me because I don't go to church. As to what I believe, again, I see it as irrelevant to the question I asked, but if you must know, I would say in Jesus and the bible.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread is about obeying the laws of God in order to obtain salvation, is it not? I believe I have shown where I have willfully transgressed against the law for about 20 years, give or take.
My question again to you is, if I were to die at this time, where would I go or what would happen to me?

Tan · Dec 29, 2012

Blain said:

Of course there will be time when we make errors in life and sin, but its the willful sin that becomes a problem with God (Jesus). Paul said in Hebrews 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries

Now Paul brings up the lake of fire in verse 27, Paul saids,"a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries" This fiery indignation comes from the Lord not Satan, this is what you suppose to fear. Pay attention to what the BIble is saying and not personal feeling and false prophets and teachers. The BIble is letting you know what you need to do, and how you need to do it. James said in Ch 1: 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

Tan · Dec 29, 2012

AgapeSpiritEyes said:

Those are true verses, but need to understood. Lets go into verse 1Timothy 1: 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Perfect love do cast off fear, but that perfect love is keeping the law (commadments) Now those who don't keep the law (commandments), disobedient, lets see what the BIble says about them, or what Jesus says about those people. Lets go into Luke 13: 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. See people run from some of Jesus words and try not to understand what Jesus is saying, but this is crystal clear, Jesus said," there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," People will come all over the world and see people in the lake of fire in the kingdom...this is what you fear!! Learn to be Obedient and keep the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday)!

Tan · Dec 29, 2012

know1 said:

Lets get a little understand, but first, let me explain the title, which is "Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear," If a person have faith in Jesus then they will do what hes said, if person do not do what Jesus says, then there will be consequences, which is the lake of fire. Jesus said in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Now the Lord will not punish a person because of ignorants.

Now to answer your question...if you continue like you are, or die today, you will most likely come up in the second resurrection and be judge out of the book of life.
Lets go into Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I hope this answer your question.

know1 · Dec 29, 2012

Tan said:

Thank you sir, I appreciate your honesty. And yes, you did answer the question to my satisfaction.

Blain · Dec 29, 2012

Tan said:

Well it seems you have a very big knoweldge on the Bible, then do you know why Jesus was called the lamb of god? Do you know why he died on the cross for us? you are teaching the ways of the old covinent, where we had to sacrifice animals because of our sins because we were dirty. Jesus came to free us of having to fear being dirty in his eyes. He came to fulfill the commandments not destroy them. Do you remember when he said that? He lived out those commandments everyday as an example for us to follow. I fall into temptation at least three times a week and on occasion i lie, i know its wrong but i also know god is very forgiving so i ask for forgivness and i somehow know i have a clean slate and i try harder not to do it again.No one here disagrees that would should obey the ten commanments but we are disagreeing that it should be done in fear, life would be a nightmare. Who in their right minds would want to be a christian if we had to be afraid of gods wrath every day? Is this how you live?

Tan · Dec 30, 2012

Blain said:

Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). Lets pay close attention to what the BIble is saying and not how we feel.

Jesus came to fulfill what the prophets wrote not the commandments. Jesus said... Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19) Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets

Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about jesus and what he had to do. What you have to understand is that all is not fulfilled, Jesus has to make a second coming, and that is to destroy the nation...because of Sin!! (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear

Tan

Guest

Kefa52

Guest

spirit1st

Guest

know1

Senior Member

Tan

Guest

Tan

Guest

Tan

Guest

Blain

The Word Weaver

loveme1

Senior Member

Tan

Guest

Blain

The Word Weaver

AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest

spirit1st

Guest

know1

Senior Member

Tan

Guest

Tan

Guest

Tan

Guest

know1

Senior Member

Blain

The Word Weaver

Tan

Guest