Faith comes by "hearing", "hearing" by the word of God ? You decide .

[garee]

Faith in its application is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence . A verb an action word , pisteuo in the Greek . Christ can't give us that only the " ability " to do that . The ability is given to some in larger measure when drawn or called out by the Father .

Your understanding is crippled , not by something you've done , but because of pisteuo not correctly translated into the English language . The Strongs and Vines valadates what I'm telling you .

Yes faith is based on that which comes from hearing God and not the imganation of ones own heart. He is our confidence .We are to put no confidence in our corrupted flesh. Its His work of faith that works in us as imputed.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work (of faith) in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Phillipians 1:6

Are you saying he will not perform it? And you are putting your confidence in your own flesh? Can't serve two masters .

 

[Pisteuo]

This is directly from Strong's Chapter 10. Click on 189 in verse 17, for yourself:

10:17 So then 686 faith 4102 [cometh] by 1537 hearing 189, and 1161 hearing 189 by 1223 the word 4487 of God 2316.

Sorry Penn , I looked no such word for hearing spelled " akoh .,"

 

[garee]

God gives us a brain , does He think for us ?

Do you mean like... let this mind be in us as it was in Christ as evidence he is lovingly working us to both will and do His good pleasure . Or a brain that says who needs the faith of God as that alone that comes from hearing Him not seen I would rather serve the imagination of one own brain ?

God gives us eyes , does He see for us ?

His ministry is to give us eyes to see what the Spirit is revealing. Blinding those who say they do not need His faith. They say their human eyes work fine.And do neded the faith of Christ written in a book

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.John 9:39-41

Isaiah 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

I can offer you His 20/20 prescription for searching out the hidden things in His parables as to the spiritual meanings .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corintians 4;18

 

[Pisteuo]

Yes faith is based on that which comes from hearing God and not the imganation of ones own heart. He is our confidence .We are to put no confidence in our corrupted flesh. Its His work of faith that works in us as imputed.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work (of faith) in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Phillipians 1:6

Are you saying he will not perform it? And you are putting your confidence in your own flesh? Can't serve two masters .

Your all over the place . We are discussing how one faithes into Christ at the very beginning of the Salvation process , before we have received the Spirit of Christ . Your addressing things after this has been received .

Read the OP I updated in post 43 please .

 

[Pisteuo]

Do you mean like... let this mind be in us as it was in Christ as evidence he is lovingly working us to both will and do His good pleasure . Or a brain that says who needs the faith of God as that alone that comes from hearing Him not seen I would rather serve the imagination of one own brain ?



His ministry is to give us eyes to see what the Spirit is revealing. Blinding those who say they do not need His faith. They say their human eyes work fine.And do neded the faith of Christ written in a book

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.John 9:39-41

Isaiah 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

I can offer you His 20/20 prescription for searching out the hidden things in His parables as to the spiritual meanings .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corintians 4;18

Again we are discussing the phase of the Salvation journey " before " we have received the Spirit of Christ . This means Christ , His word , and all the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet .

Read post 43 .

 

[PennEd]

Sorry Penn , I looked no such word for hearing spelled " akoh .,"

Must be an alternate spelling. I can tell you I didn't make it up. I can link the whole chapter with website if you like.
But it doesn't really matter because the definition is the same as akoe:

Strong's Concordance
akoé: hearing, the sense of hearing
Original Word: ἀκοή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: akoé
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-o-ay')
Definition: hearing, the sense of hearing
Usage: hearing, faculty of hearing, ear; report, rumor.


So how can you get a COURT hearing out of that word?

 

[Pisteuo]

Must be an alternate spelling. I can tell you I didn't make it up. I can link the whole chapter with website if you like.
But it doesn't really matter because the definition is the same as akoe:

Strong's Concordance
akoé: hearing, the sense of hearing
Original Word: ἀκοή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: akoé
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-o-ay')
Definition: hearing, the sense of hearing
Usage: hearing, faculty of hearing, ear; report, rumor.


So how can you get a COURT hearing out of that word?

It's not a problem . I would appreciate it if you would just go to post 43 in this thread . I explain it in detail . That way I don't have to repeat a very difficult explanation again . Then get back to me .

Thanks

 

[garee]

Again we are discussing the phase of the Salvation journey " before " we have received the Spirit of Christ . This means Christ , His word , and all the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet .

Read post 43 .

Before we started the jorney of seeking after him who has no form we had no faith, not little but none. Therefore we could not seek after him without any previous understanding. As always our first love must do the first works. we love Him because he first loved us giving us eternal life.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10-11

I would offer His understanding that freely gives us is the light of or journry of faith we do not walk by sight after the temporal thing seen

Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[PennEd]

It's not a problem . I would appreciate it if you would just go to post 43 in this thread . I explain it in detail . That way I don't have to repeat a very difficult explanation again . Then get back to me .

Thanks

Isn't post 43 the same as your opening OP which caused me to question the word to begin with?


I read what you wrote in the OP and you are reeeeeaaallly stretching to try and make the point that the passage is talking about a court proceeding.

I'm sorry, but we don't have the authority to that.

If I understand you correctly, I do agree with you that our faith in Him comes EXCLUSIVELY FROM Him, and not something we muster up on our own.

 

[garee]

Sorry Penn , I looked no such word for hearing spelled " akoh .,"

Christians I believe spell hear .

saiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Without his hearing aid no man can hear Him.

 

[Pisteuo]

Before we started the jorney of seeking after him who has no form we had no faith, not little but none. Therefore we could not seek after him without any previous understanding. As always our first love must do the first works. we love Him because he first loved us giving us eternal life.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10-11

I would offer His understanding that freely gives us is the light of or journry of faith we do not walk by sight after the temporal thing seen

Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Garee , if you read post 43 you understand where I'm coming from . If you don't agree , replace my understanding ( of the beginning of the Salvation journey while Christ is not ours yet ) with a better understanding . Here's the question .

While we are being drawn or called out by the Father , we turn in our mind from our way to His way in our mind . We then take a step of Faith ( Faithing ) towards Him .

Explain , what is being done when we take that step of faithing towards God ? Specifically .

 

[Pisteuo]

Isn't post 43 the same as your opening OP which caused me to question the word to begin with?


I read what you wrote in the OP and you are reeeeeaaallly stretching to try and make the point that the passage is talking about a court proceeding.

I'm sorry, but we don't have the authority to that.

If I understand you correctly, I do agree with you that our faith in Him comes EXCLUSIVELY FROM Him, and not something we muster up on our own.

Faith or the ability to faithe comes from Him , pistis in the Greek used 245 times , a noun .

But the specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific kind of confidence confidence , ( a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ) pisteuo , a verb , used 248 times , is a choice we make to follow Him .


Everything we have in this world , including the noun pistis , the thing , Faith , is not applied or used by God for us . The verb pisteuo , is the word that communicates us choosing to go towards something . In this case God .

Post 43 had an important correction .

 

[Pisteuo]

Christians I believe spell hear .

saiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Without his hearing aid no man can hear Him.

Remember , the Strongs definition that says ( compare to a courtroom hearing ) is specific to the Greek word Akoe in Rom. 10:17 .

 

[Pisteuo]

Christians I believe spell hear .

saiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Without his hearing aid no man can hear Him.

You are addressing the word for " hear " akouo " in the Greek 191 in the Strongs . A different word used differently , with similar definition . The Greek is a very precise language .

 

[Pisteuo]

This is the point I'm making in this thread .

Faith is not , " believing " as understood by the church world today .

I've shown at the beginning of the Salvation process , because we do not have the Spirit of Christ yet , " believing " or claiming anything of God at this point is impossible . Simply because God and His Word are not ours to believe in and claim .

Also Rom. 10:17 , " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the word of God ." The Strongs tells us this hearing is like a courtroom hearing , where something is hear and a decision is always made . Well the question is who is doing the hearing , and who ismaking the decision ? I'm saying a per the OP , that it's God doing the hearing ( as in a courtroom hearing , deciding if our faithing , our surrendered life is genuine ) and God is making the decision , and God is doing the accepting , not us .

This second point also shows that " believing " is an incorrect understanding of the mistranslated word pisteuo .

 

[Pisteuo]

Not to mention the Strongs saying : pisteuo means NOT just to believe .

 

[PennEd]

This is the point I'm making in this thread .

Faith is not , " believing " as understood by the church world today .

I've shown at the beginning of the Salvation process , because we do not have the Spirit of Christ yet , " believing " or claiming anything of God at this point is impossible . Simply because God and His Word are not ours to believe in and claim .

Also Rom. 10:17 , " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the word of God ." The Strongs tells us this hearing is like a courtroom hearing , where something is hear and a decision is always made . Well the question is who is doing the hearing , and who ismaking the decision ? I'm saying a per the OP , that it's God doing the hearing ( as in a courtroom hearing , deciding if our faithing , our surrendered life is genuine ) and God is making the decision , and God is doing the accepting , not us .

This second point also shows that " believing " is an incorrect understanding of the mistranslated word pisteuo .

OK. Sorry, I disagree with just about everything you wrote here.

This seems to me to be your private interpretations. Paul attended a number of trials and court proceedings. If he wanted to mean a court proceeding, he would not have used the word for an ear to hear.

I think your doctrine is a clever, but ultimately wrong doctrine, that boils down to a works Gospel.

 

[Pisteuo]

OK. Sorry, I disagree with just about everything you wrote here.

This seems to me to be your private interpretations. Paul attended a number of trials and court proceedings. If he wanted to mean a court proceeding, he would not have used the word for an ear to hear.

I think your doctrine is a clever, but ultimately wrong doctrine, that boils down to a works Gospel.

I didn't define Rom 10:17 ( compare to a courtroom hearing ) the Strongs did . I know it's like trying to stop the Niagra falls from flowing , but I think I've presented a point or points Worthy of asking for a better understanding . Do you have one ?

What about my point of God's word not being ours to " believe in or claim at the beginning stage of the Salvation process ?

 

[PennEd]

I didn't define Rom 10:17 ( compare to a courtroom hearing ) the Strongs did . I know it's like trying to stop the Niagra falls from flowing , but I think I've presented a point or points Worthy of asking for a better understanding . Do you have one ?

What about my point of God's word not being ours to " believe in or claim at the beginning stage of the Salvation process ?

I read the definition like 6 times. NOWHERE did I see it talk about a court proceeding.

Yes. I believe the faith we have to believe the Gospel comes from God alone. Hearing the Word triggers that faith we were given as a gift into the action of confessing with our mouth, and believing in our heart. At which time we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will transform us into the image of Jesus Christ. Oh How I wish this transformation was instantaneous!

So although our Salvation is sealed with the Holy Spirit forever, we still inhabit our dead flesh, and unfortunately, still sin because of not walking in the Spirit every moment of every day.

 

[Pisteuo]

I read the definition like 6 times. NOWHERE did I see it talk about a court proceeding.

Yes. I believe the faith we have to believe the Gospel comes from God alone. Hearing the Word triggers that faith we were given as a gift into the action of confessing with our mouth, and believing in our heart. At which time we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will transform us into the image of Jesus Christ. Oh How I wish this transformation was instantaneous!

So although our Salvation is sealed with the Holy Spirit forever, we still inhabit our dead flesh, and unfortunately, still sin because of not walking in the Spirit every moment of every day.

Ok , so your saying God surrenders our life to Himself " for us " claiming something that is not ours , " for us " ?

Let's continue to play out your understanding . One of the things that must happen in the Salvation journey is the parable of the sower , where 3out of the 4 soils fail . In your understanding , recieving His Spirit at a moment of " believing ," would mean those 3 that fail in the parable of the sower would have the Spirit of Christ in them when they failed . Are you ok with that fact ?