Faith is a work.

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fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#241
Nov 17, 2015
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#241
Guojing said:
You already concluded that I misapplied scripture so even if I tried, you will still reject, so what's the point? :)
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I think you get offended in my other post especially on #183 where Paul says baptism is not yet phase out. By saying it is phase out means is no longer practice per Merriam-Webster. Then you try change your wording by saying it is no longer necessary in salvation which is totally different with what you said. Pardon me but I have to go to the scriptures. Further, you are trying to give meaning from the KJV with other scriptures. The KJV is KJV and not NLT which is a poor substitute. While I am not attempting to turn this into a KJV discussion but at least fyi NLT is not base on the KJV.
 
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Beckworth

Active member
#242
May 15, 2019
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#242
eternally-gratefull said:
You did not answer my original comment.

Jesus said it is GOdS work that we believe.

Your baptism argument is meaningless when it comes next to that.
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I believe Faith is God's work. My point is Baptism is God’s work also.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#243
Nov 17, 2015
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#243
Beckworth said:
Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 ...”baptizing them into the NAME of the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. That is how you access the name of Jesus. GALATIONS 3:27- as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. You cannot separate the name of Jesus from. Water baptism.
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I believe Matthew 28 that Baptism of water is part of the GC but is is not a part of the Gospel. It is only by the Gospel meaning only Jesus saves through faith. The Gospel btw, is the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#244
#244
Beckworth said:
I believe Faith is God's work. My point is Baptism is God’s work also.
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It is, Spirit baptsm

Water baptism is one of MANY MANY works God wants HIS people to do. NON OF WHICH has any part in our salation
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#245
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#245
So, let me get this right. People are saying it is okay with God to not get water baptized? That isn't how the Lord has dealt with me. If you are not sure, why not go ahead and do it. That's my thinking, anyway. You will pardon me those of you not baptized, I will not take communion with you. :rolleyes:
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#246
Nov 17, 2015
3,999
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#246
Guojing said:
What do you think Abraham believed God in? Was it that Jesus has died for his sins and rose again for his justification? What saith the scripture?
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It is not the question of what i think. The scripture is plain Abraham believed God meaning salvation is always by faith even the time of father Abraham.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#247
Jan 12, 2019
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#247
fredoheaven said:
I think you get offended in my other post especially on #183 where Paul says baptism is not yet phase out. By saying it is phase out means is no longer practice per Merriam-Webster. Then you try change your wording by saying it is no longer necessary in salvation which is totally different with what you said. Pardon me but I have to go to the scriptures. Further, you are trying to give meaning from the KJV with other scriptures. The KJV is KJV and not NLT which is a poor substitute. While I am not attempting to turn this into a KJV discussion but at least fyi NLT is not base on the KJV.
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You can still go ahead and get water Baptised if you want but it’s no longer a requirement for anything.

As for my point about Abel, The kjv say the same thing in that verse if you bother to read it, instead of trying to disagree for the sake of it.

God was telling Cain what he had to do to be right with him, just like Abel did.

If you combine that with what Hebrews 11 stated, Abel was saved because he believed God and offer the sacrifice God commanded.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#248
Jan 12, 2019
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#248
fredoheaven said:
If you mean this is a showing of faith therefore it is already a result which you conflicted your own. Works are result of faith.
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I keep belief and work separated.

If Abel believed God but did not offer the correct sacrifice, would he be saved?
 
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Guojing

Banned
#249
Jan 12, 2019
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#249
Deade said:
So, let me get this right. People are saying it is okay with God to not get water baptized? That isn't how the Lord has dealt with me. If you are not sure, why not go ahead and do it. That's my thinking, anyway. You will pardon me those of you not baptized, I will not take communion with you. :rolleyes:
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What do you think will happen if Christians nowadays don’t get water baptised?
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#250
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#250
Guojing said:
What do you think will happen if Christians nowadays don’t get water baptised?
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It is not my place to say. There are many real Christians and many fake Christians. I will have communion only with those that believe by certain guidelines. No water baptism is one very serious one. :oops:
 
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Guojing

Banned
#251
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#251
Deade said:
It is not my place to say. There are many real Christians and many fake Christians. I will have communion only with those that believe by certain guidelines. No water baptism is one very serious one. :oops:
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You are not sure whether water baptism plays a part in your salvation, so you get water baptized "just in case" it turns out to be a necessary condition?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#252
Jan 12, 2019
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#252
Beckworth said:
Who said Acts was a transitional book and when did they say that? Is this from men or God. I can’t accept that fact just because you say it. Book, Chapter, and Verse please. That sounds like YOUR interpretation. I find it interesting that you include James in that category also because people who believe in a faith only doctrine have trouble explaining away Acts 2:38 and James 3:24. They also try to discredit Mark 16:16. I am amazed at the lengths men will go to “explain away” the plain language of the Bible when it doesn’t fit their doctrine. Emphasis on “their” doctrine because this is from men, not God or the Bible.
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James clearly believed that belief alone is not sufficient for a Jew to be justified, and he explained that in James 2. However, he accepted that Gentiles are under a different salvation plan from God. Acts 21 will make that obvious.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#253
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#253
Guojing said:
You are not sure whether water baptism plays a part in your salvation, so you get water baptized "just in case" it turns out to be a necessary condition?
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When I said God has not dealt with me that way, I assumed you knew that the HS prompted by toward baptism from early on. Are you saying obedience to the HS is not required? I hope not. I also have known other that were directed toward baptism, so it seems to be the trend. welcoming.png
 
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Guojing

Banned
#254
Jan 12, 2019
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#254
Deade said:
When I said God has not dealt with me that way, I assumed you knew that the HS prompted by toward baptism from early on. Are you saying obedience to the HS is not required? I hope not. I also have known other that were directed toward baptism, so it seems to be the trend. View attachment 201178
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When you say required, you mean required for what? Is it possible for you to be clear?

Which scripture are you using there?
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#255
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#255
Guojing said:
When you say required, you mean required for what? Is it possible for you to be clear?

Which scripture are you using there?
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Why don't you just figure it out for yourself, do or don't makes no diff to me. I will tell you the following quote make no sense at all. frown.gif

Guojing said:
James clearly believed that belief alone is not sufficient for a Jew to be justified, and he explained that in James 2. However, he accepted that Gentiles are under a different salvation plan from God. Acts 21 will make that obvious.
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Guojing

Banned
#256
Jan 12, 2019
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#256
Deade said:
Why don't you just figure it out for yourself, do or don't makes no diff to me. I will tell you the following quote make no sense at all. View attachment 201179
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I am interested in understanding Your beliefs about water baptism.

Of course if you are uncomfortable sharing, that is fine too. Cheers
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#257
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
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78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#257
Guojing said:
I am interested in understanding Your beliefs about water baptism.

Of course if you are uncomfortable sharing, that is fine too. Cheers
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I was following your and Beckworth's exchanges. I think he pretty much covered my view.

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ;)
 
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Guojing

Banned
#258
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#258
Deade said:
I was following your and Beckworth's exchanges. I think he pretty much covered my view.

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ;)
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Ok thanks for clarifying that you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Now was it really so difficult for you to just say that? 🤗. Be confident in what you believe in.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#259
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#259
eternally-gratefull said:
Salvation has been the same in all dispensations.

By grace through faith.

It has NEVER been by works. And never will be.
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Amen....nor has it been a cafe blend of faith and works.....there is a reason the Gong Show was only a 30 minute program that did not last long....the talent was a little off kilter....
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#260
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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#260
Beckworth said:
To say we are not saved by works is to say we are not saved by faith because the Bible says faith is a work. John 6:29.

To say we are not saved by works is misleading. There are at least 3 or 4 different kinds of works talked about in the Bible. Some works we are not saved by are the works of the Old Testament law of Moses. Galatians. To try to be justified by these you will fall from Grace. Another kind of work are the ones men boast about ( boastful works) these are works that come from men. That ORIGINATE with men. These are not works of God. Some that come to mind are “playing ball for Jesus” or selling chicken dinners to raise money for a good cause. Did Jesus tell you to do these things? Then they didn’t come from him. And we know they were boastful works because in the scene in the gospels when Jesus turns these people away they say “...but Lord we have Done many mighty works in your name. But he will say depart from me you who work lawlessness ( without law or authority from God.) there are other works mentioned in the Bible ( works of the flesh-Galatians) but the most important one you need to remember is that there are also works of God. These works are those that come from God not men and they are commanded by God and they are approved by God. Faith is this kind of wrk in John 6:29. In fact, the Holy Spirit says this is the work of God that you believe. So you are misleading people to say we are not saved by works at all. Plus you are contradicting yourself if you turn around and say we are saved by faith. Mark 12:24- “you do err not knowing the scriptures.”
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I believe Paul was attact jew that believe for salvation you have to do animal sacrifice wash your hand before Eat etc.

That kind of work not save you

Than what save you, ?

Faith in Jesus, not work.

But after you invite Jesus you Will to be like Him in the sense of love

Agaphe love is not your work, No body willing to die for other like Jesus, only If Jesus is in your heart than you willing to die for other.

I my self confest, I work for me and my family, not for other. How about die for your enemy like what Jesus did. It is impossible for natural man.

If a man willing to die for his enemy, It is because Jesus in his heart, not of his own strength.
 
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