Faith or Works?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,334
78
48
#21
2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”
look like this judgement is for believer and unbeliever

the last clause said

whether righteous (believer ) or evil (unbeliever)

of course the reward for evil is hell
 

EarsToHear

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2016
340
8
0
#22
The bible is clear...the saved appear before the BEMA seat of Christ to be rewarded at the 1st resurrection....the LOST at the second death before the Great White Throne judgement to be judge according to the BOOKS of the law and cast into the lake of fire....

The saved rewarded based upon their works, the lost JUDGED based upon their works...........

The Great White Throne Judgment


It, as Revelation teaches, takes place 1,000 years after Christ returns.


Revelation 20:11-13
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea (waters are people) gave up the dead (those with mortal souls, which means liable to die) who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works (twice for emphases).

The 2nd resurrection happens here for those who make it. The rest will go into the lake of fire and "turned to ashes from within".


Now faith is paramount because you cannot see Christ with your physical eyes. After Christ returns, you can see Him. You do not need to have faith in something you can see. It’s right there before your eyes.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,334
78
48
#23
The Great White Throne Judgment


It, as Revelation teaches, takes place 1,000 years after Christ returns.


Revelation 20:11-13
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea (waters are people) gave up the dead (those with mortal souls, which means liable to die) who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works (twice for emphases).

The 2nd resurrection happens here for those who make it. The rest will go into the lake of fire and "turned to ashes from within".


Now faith is paramount because you cannot see Christ with your physical eyes. After Christ returns, you can see Him. You do not need to have faith in something you can see. It’s right there before your eyes.
there are 2 book, it may one of them is book of life, another one is book for unbeliever. Both of them present in that judgement
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,012
23
38
#24
No ,just one, the book of life. if your name is not in that one,then it's the lake of fire.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,800
92
48
#25
We are saved by faith, but rewarded according to our works. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead. The two really go hand in hand. Our works demonstrate our faith, so our faith is substantiated by our works.. jmo
 

Dale1701

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2015
11
0
0
#26
You state that baptism saves and I have heard this argument before. I don't understand though why Jesus told the their on the cross next to Him that today they would be together in practice the their wasn't vaorised.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,334
78
48
#27
No ,just one, the book of life. if your name is not in that one,then it's the lake of fire.

Verse 12

12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. another book was opened, which is the book of life


the first books is plural, a lot of books.

second book was singular/one book
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,012
23
38
#28
ok, i was wrong about only one book, but the only one that counts is the book of life.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,334
78
48
#29
ok, i was wrong about only one book, but the only one that counts is the book of life.

Yep, the first books was plural may be because that books is the records of unbeliever, majority people not go to heaven, Jesus said narrow is the path to heaven, only few will be there

more people more book.
my point is both believer and unbeliever present in that courthouse, some people believe this judgement is only for believer. This believe not base on that verses.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
131
63
#30
Faith that worketh by love.. we are loved and set free to love GOD and each other.

The Spirit is given to those that believe in their heart.. Repent and believe.

The Spirit is the power of GOD working through us it Truly is Christ within.

GOD grafts the Believing branch in to the True Vine which is the Messiah and the branch is supplied with the Goodness.

Sanctified by His Blood being set at liberty under Grace to love and obey.


So Law of Faith or law of works?

New wine is a Blessing so let us have Grace where Faith leads us unto the good works from the Masters Word.

Grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ.


Glory to the Almighty GOD and our Lord and Saviour.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
172
0
#32
None of the above...the saved do not endure the Great White Throne judgment.....they are rewarded at the BEMA seat of Christ.....it is the LOST that endure the Great White Throne......
Hi D-Con You beat me to it.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
166
0
#33
Hey guys this is the wrong question.

Look at what scripture says,
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15

The fact if you are written in the book of life you are not destroyed.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
Rev: 20 12-13

All the dead stand before the throne.
What they have done is judged by what has be written in the books.
Now God says He has wiped out the sins of His people. So nothing will be written against
His people. So there is nothing to fear.
But if we have not remained true, He will wipe out the memory of the righteous behaviour
as if it had not taken place, and remember all that was before.

Now those who believe they are judged only before Christ are mistaken.
Judgement is the same for all.

Now some think Jesus will stand at judgement instead of them, so all the evil
they have done will be covered, though never dealt with.

The only scriptural principle is the wiping away the records of evil.
And what saves us? To be written in the lambs book of life, Amen.

It is obvious this contradicts the view of Jesus returning and we being swept up
with Him. These are summaries of events, without continuity, so how they fit
is an interesting question.

Bema seat of rewards in Christ is also another area of recognition of behaviour.

I am grateful the Lord will recognise who we are and what we have done, amen.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
62,420
1,387
113
#34
Work all you want.. It won't save you.

The lawn you mow for a disabled neighbor won't save you. Neither will the dinner you served a homeless person at a soup kitchen. Neither will the money you donate to charity. FAITH is what saves you. Works do not..

Works. We will be judged by what we did when we were in the body. "Throw that wicked and lazy servant into outer darkness- where there will be weeping a gnashing of teeth."
 
Dec 9, 2011
9,991
244
63
60
#35
We are saved by faith, but rewarded according to our works. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead. The two really go hand in hand. Our works demonstrate our faith, so our faith is substantiated by our works.. jmo
Would you agree that faith without works would also mean no reward,yet the person would be saved?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
14,848
716
113
#36
Work all you want.. It won't save you.

The lawn you mow for a disabled neighbor won't save you. Neither will the dinner you served a homeless person at a soup kitchen. Neither will the money you donate to charity. FAITH is what saves you. Works do not..
Amen! Also, wicked, lazy servant who is cast out into outer darkness does not represent a genuine believer. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved. The Jews were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
113
#37
Work all you want.. It won't save you.

The lawn you mow for a disabled neighbor won't save you. Neither will the dinner you served a homeless person at a soup kitchen. Neither will the money you donate to charity. FAITH is what saves you. Works do not..
I know.....the contradiction is obvious in her post....not required to earn it but required to receive it.....WOW.......!!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,898
415
83
#40
I disagree. Our obedience does not earn salvation, but it is required in order to receive it- for God only gives it to the obedient. 1Peter 3:21 - baptism saves- because it gets us in contact with Christ's blood (Romans 6:3, Colossians 2). And with flames of fire God will take vengeance on those who don't obey the gospel of Christ (baptism).

Without work (effort) to not sin, you lose your salvation... "If you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins."

And... "IF you remain faithful till the end I will give you a crown of life."
I'm honestly a little concerned for you. Do you even know what the Gospel unto Salvation is?

What exactly are you resting on to be saved?

Dear Lord, open the eyes of the hearts of those who are not resting SOLELY on the finished work of Your beloved Son.