Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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As I have said, we are all dispensationalists at heart, it is just the extent of it.

We were all brought up reading the bible and there is a clear blank page that divides the Old Testament and the New Testament. Thus, we grew up being taught that the NT applies to us specifically, but the OT is for us to learn from, but the OT applied to the Jews.

However, when it comes to books in the NT, only those who lean even more towards dispensationalism will accept that certain books are instructions mainly to the Jews, and do not apply to the Gentile Church directly.

I can see that you are not one of them, and that is fine. All of us are still saved because of the Gospel of Grace, which is putting our faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
And I would add that the NT does not begin until the death of the testator, not with Matthew 1. A transition took place after His death as the message changed from being Jewish in nature to the Gentiles through the apostle Paul. And then back to the Jews after the rapture of the Church which takes place in Paul’s epistles.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yep, according to James, in the future tribulation as a sign to the Jews when elders pray in faith over the sick. Nice comeback on the “original” language thing. I’d love to read that passage in the original language, but we don’t have it.

Can you name a time when the prayers of others in faith forgives the sins of another?
Smh, whatever..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Why ignore the plain speech of Matthew 10? Do not go...why? That particular message is to the Jews only.
Why?

Because jesus told us why

1st to the jew

If you go to the jew first. That means YOU DO NOT GO ELSEWHERE.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Why?

Because jesus told us why

1st to the jew

If you go to the jew first. That means YOU DO NOT GO ELSEWHERE.
As you go fulfill this, do you do the signs and wonders?

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
As you go fulfill this, do you do the signs and wonders?

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
No one has ever done that, That was added to scripture

I am done dude, I am not sure where you get this stuff. Or if you made it up. But I did what I needed to do. And the person I was worried about has confirmed he is not buying it either.. so good day.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,614
3,529
113
No one has ever done that, That was added to scripture

I am done dude, I am not sure where you get this stuff. Or if you made it up. But I did what I needed to do. And the person I was worried about has confirmed he is not buying it either.. so good day.
One more thing I want to go back to of what you said. We both believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way unto salvation. That is, His death, burial and resurrection for sins. Yes? But you said those OT saints were saved, yet the cross was hidden. How? Did they believe something different other than the cross that lead to their salvation? You always claim I believe they were saved by works. I say they were not saved like you and me. They were kept safe in Abraham’s bosom. That’s not salvation to me. You and I enjoy something completely different and better.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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LUKE 13:28.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets,
in The Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

1COR. 15:50.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit The Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1PETER 1:10-11.
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of The Grace
that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time The Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when It testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

11TIM. 3:16-17.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So next time I use the term he or him, you are going to say not all of us are of the male gender?
Often him refers to all, as in "let him who is without sin...", whereas "we were all brought up reading the bible" is simply an assumptive statement that happens not to be true. I wonder if it is even 50% so.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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what is new heart and new spirit

and after spirit of God ?


how one knows that he has everything ? or part ? or nothing ?
You would have to be born again to know. Are you born again?

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? (Joh 3:12)

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:14)

And if you are born again, why are you asking?
 
Apr 12, 2019
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You would have to be born again to know. Are you born again?

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? (Joh 3:12)

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:14)

And if you are born again, why are you asking?
do you see the kingdom of God ?
where is it ?
how is it looking ?
what do you see ?

and now if you see it then you can enter it
did you enter it ?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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do you see the kingdom of God ?
where is it ?
how is it looking ?
what do you see ?

and now if you see it then you can enter it
did you enter it ?
Are you a Christian?
Have you had an inner transformation or is God a mere formula or abstract concept?
Where will your eternal dwelling place be? How do you know?

2 Corinthians 5:7 (KJV) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
 
Apr 12, 2019
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Are you a Christian?
Have you had an inner transformation or is God a mere formula or abstract concept?
Where will your eternal dwelling place be? How do you know?

2 Corinthians 5:7 (KJV) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
New International Version
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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New International Version
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
Then why the barrage of questions such as...
what is new heart and new spirit

and after spirit of God ?


how one knows that he has everything ? or part ? or nothing ?
Are you playing games or??
 
Jan 12, 2019
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well honestly i kind of thought so. but how am i supposed to know when James was written lolz
Never heard of google?

The real question is, after you found out, will that change the way you understand the book of James? If not, its a mute point.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Again,

I have no idea what yuour talking about

And I disagree sharply

ALL scripture is God breathe, and applicable to all people.
Do you sacrifice a lamb every time you sin now?
Do you build an ark now?

Why don't those OT instructions apply to you?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Often him refers to all, as in "let him who is without sin...", whereas "we were all brought up reading the bible" is simply an assumptive statement that happens not to be true. I wonder if it is even 50% so.
Okay so do you agree with the rest of the argument then? That is the key question

As I have said, we are all dispensationalists at heart, it is just the extent of it.

Those Christians who grew up reading the bible, there is a clear blank page that divides the Old Testament and the New Testament. Thus, they grew up being taught that the NT applies to us specifically, but the OT is for us to learn from, but the OT applied to the Jews.

However, when it comes to books in the NT, only those who lean even more towards dispensationalism will accept that certain books are instructions mainly to the Jews, and do not apply to the Gentile Church directly.

I can see that you are not one of them, and that is fine. All of us are still saved because of the Gospel of Grace, which is putting our faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
Okay so do you agree with the rest of the argument then? That is the key question
As I have said, we are all dispensationalists at heart, it is just the extent of it.

We were all brought up reading the bible and there is a clear blank page that divides the Old Testament and the New Testament. Thus, we grew up being taught that the NT applies to us specifically, but the OT is for us to learn from, but the OT applied to the Jews.

However, when it comes to books in the NT, only those who lean even more towards dispensationalism will accept that certain books are instructions mainly to the Jews, and do not apply to the Gentile Church directly.

I can see that you are not one of them, and that is fine.All of us are still saved because of the Gospel of Grace, which is putting our faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I find your division way too narrow and simplistic. It's definitely not cut and dry between Old and New.
Take Revelation for example. Chaps 1-3 Church. Chaps 4-19- Israel/Jacobs Trouble 20-22 -all believers both Jew and Gentile.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I find your division way too narrow and simplistic. It's definitely not cut and dry between Old and New.
Take Revelation for example. Chaps 1-3 Church. Chaps 4-19- Israel/Jacobs Trouble 20-22 -all believers both Jew and Gentile.
Yep the extent on which people lean on dispensationalism varies. That is to be expected.
 
Apr 12, 2019
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Then why the barrage of questions such as...
Are you playing games or??
yes - it is game of making brilliant brains
game called - who is who and what is what

that' s the scientific game of spiritual knowledge - what makes it not simple
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
yes - it is game of making brilliant brains
game called - who is who and what is what

that' s the scientific game of spiritual knowledge - what makes it not simple
Maybe that's the game pseudo intellectuals play, but not disciples of Jesus.