Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?
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SO to you it's OK to treat the Bible like it's your personal toy to play with, but it's BAD to write a verse by verse commentary? 
but, you put words in my mouth, and start building a strawman to attack.
so, I will just bow out of this, it is not possible to have a rational conversation with someone who just wants to attack anyone who does not word for word agree with you.
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Do you agree with budman that a Christian can sin all they want and can even stop believing in Jesus and be saved, DC?
Jude 4- For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. NAS
Jude 4- For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. NAS
Jude is about false teachers.......compared to three false teachers....and NONE of them were saved and or taught the correct message....gotta LOVE AWOT'S that embellish scripture or take it out of context to prove invalid points...
CAIN <----works
Korah <--Rebelled against the man God called
Balaam <---For reward (money)
CAIN <----works
Korah <--Rebelled against the man God called
Balaam <---For reward (money)
Saying "a christian can be saved and sin as much as they want and can even stop believing in Jesus and be saved indeed equals
NO WORKS needed for salvation...It means No works of God are needed either...no regeneration, no sanctification, no preservation necessary.
Salvation is by works. The works that God does
NO WORKS needed for salvation...It means No works of God are needed either...no regeneration, no sanctification, no preservation necessary.
Salvation is by works. The works that God does
Oh, I take this back. There is the work of the cross. (Holy Spirit checked me on that)
But in Bud's paradigm, no TRUE regeneration is necessary.
A new creature does not sin all they want.
And you do not split a Christian two parts and say one part follows the flesh and the other part follows the Spirit.
The Bible says that "They that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Note that is a descriptive statement, not prescriptive for those who know the difference
If you are still in the flesh, you are not Christ's. Romans 8:9
Are we perfect at walking in the Spirit? By no means. But to say we CAN SIN ALL WE WANT is saying we can abide, dwell, walk, and live in the flesh and still belong to Christ. This is unbiblical and heretical
If you live after the flesh you will die. But if you through the Spirit PUT TO DEATH the deeds of the flesh you shall live. (Romans 8:13)
If you disagree with this, 2 Timothy 4:3
Now cast all the stones you want.
But in Bud's paradigm, no TRUE regeneration is necessary.
A new creature does not sin all they want.
And you do not split a Christian two parts and say one part follows the flesh and the other part follows the Spirit.
The Bible says that "They that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Note that is a descriptive statement, not prescriptive for those who know the difference
If you are still in the flesh, you are not Christ's. Romans 8:9
Are we perfect at walking in the Spirit? By no means. But to say we CAN SIN ALL WE WANT is saying we can abide, dwell, walk, and live in the flesh and still belong to Christ. This is unbiblical and heretical
If you live after the flesh you will die. But if you through the Spirit PUT TO DEATH the deeds of the flesh you shall live. (Romans 8:13)
If you disagree with this, 2 Timothy 4:3
Now cast all the stones you want.
Hiya, Bigmac!
I read your offer of a debate and I might have some time later next week. I've been incredibly busy with work and family issues atm. But real quick, as I'm pressed for time even now, let me give some clarity to my statements.
As far as a Christian sinning all they want and continuing to be saved...
You, I, and every other believer already do this. So I really don't see what the issue here is. We sin every day either by thought, word, or deed. We sin even more than we are aware, as God's requires absolute perfection to be saved. Salvation is a gift via grace - God's unmerited favor. To add a single requirement to it negates it as such. It turns salvation into a merit based system. How many works are needed? How many sins will cause one to lose it? Nobody ever has the specifics.
And once again: Christians should live a life that is pleasing to the Lord. Absolutely. 100% true. But we don't. No one does. When we disobey, we invite God's chastisement into our lives. But that chastisement never involves the loss of salvation. 1 Corinthians 3:15 teaches this. Righteousness is imputed without any works needed before or after salvation. (Romans 4:5-6).
God's chastisements can bring a loss of joy, deep sorrow and grief, or sickness.
But, if the believer will not turn from his wickedness, God's chastisement can even lead to an early death:
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5).
But the believer remains saved.
Now, as far as a Christian who stops believing, yet still remains saved:
If it were not so, than salvation, yet again, would cease to be a gift, and instead becomes an obligation. And the questions that need to be asked would be:
"How long could one stop believing before salvation is lost - a second, a minute, an hour, or a day?"
"If one stops believing and salvation is lost, yet begins to believe again, is salvation regained? If so, how many gains/loses of salvation will God allow?"
"If one stops believing in a moment of anger, loss, sickness, or grief, does God overlook those?"
Simply: Salvation is either a gift with no strings attached, or it's not. It's either all of grace, or it's a mixture of faith and works. If works play no part, God gets all the glory and credit for our salvation. If works play any part, we can share in God's glory and have the right to boast.
I wish I had more time to get to all of your posts, but I'm absolutely pressed. I will try my best to set up a debate with you. Again, hopefully later next week.
I read your offer of a debate and I might have some time later next week. I've been incredibly busy with work and family issues atm. But real quick, as I'm pressed for time even now, let me give some clarity to my statements.
As far as a Christian sinning all they want and continuing to be saved...
You, I, and every other believer already do this. So I really don't see what the issue here is. We sin every day either by thought, word, or deed. We sin even more than we are aware, as God's requires absolute perfection to be saved. Salvation is a gift via grace - God's unmerited favor. To add a single requirement to it negates it as such. It turns salvation into a merit based system. How many works are needed? How many sins will cause one to lose it? Nobody ever has the specifics.
And once again: Christians should live a life that is pleasing to the Lord. Absolutely. 100% true. But we don't. No one does. When we disobey, we invite God's chastisement into our lives. But that chastisement never involves the loss of salvation. 1 Corinthians 3:15 teaches this. Righteousness is imputed without any works needed before or after salvation. (Romans 4:5-6).
God's chastisements can bring a loss of joy, deep sorrow and grief, or sickness.
But, if the believer will not turn from his wickedness, God's chastisement can even lead to an early death:
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5).
But the believer remains saved.
Now, as far as a Christian who stops believing, yet still remains saved:
If it were not so, than salvation, yet again, would cease to be a gift, and instead becomes an obligation. And the questions that need to be asked would be:
"How long could one stop believing before salvation is lost - a second, a minute, an hour, or a day?"
"If one stops believing and salvation is lost, yet begins to believe again, is salvation regained? If so, how many gains/loses of salvation will God allow?"
"If one stops believing in a moment of anger, loss, sickness, or grief, does God overlook those?"
Simply: Salvation is either a gift with no strings attached, or it's not. It's either all of grace, or it's a mixture of faith and works. If works play no part, God gets all the glory and credit for our salvation. If works play any part, we can share in God's glory and have the right to boast.
I wish I had more time to get to all of your posts, but I'm absolutely pressed. I will try my best to set up a debate with you. Again, hopefully later next week.
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I thought you knew!
Birds of a feather flock together!
Or?
Does millions of lemmings headed for cliffs, make them right?
Ya see? Here's the problem! Ones' producing "thirty fold", hanging together, perpetuating and justifying their "yield" with so many "vain and profane babblings, that just lead into more ungodlimess", that they are producing a "hundred fold."
Therefore not only distancing themselves, by means of unkind oppressive/accusativeunsure remarks, "trick" questions, (lets call these "rabbit holed vanishing points" of self-righteousness) but also, refrain themselves, and everyone else within "earshot", that what they have achieved? Is Good (ENOUGH)!
Matthew 19
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou WILT enter into life(?), keep the commandments.
And to these? I'm down with that!
What, I've been doing for almost as long as I've been posting almost exclusively in the BDF forum? Is not saying "thirty folders" are bad. On the "other hand?"
But, that those producing "thirty fold", yet seeing producing "thirty fold", is lacking TO them?
Are NOT bad, or teaching "doctrines of demons", or teachings of the spirit anti-christ/anti-God either!
Birds of a feather flock together!
Or?
Does millions of lemmings headed for cliffs, make them right?
Ya see? Here's the problem! Ones' producing "thirty fold", hanging together, perpetuating and justifying their "yield" with so many "vain and profane babblings, that just lead into more ungodlimess", that they are producing a "hundred fold."
Therefore not only distancing themselves, by means of unkind oppressive/accusative
unsure remarks, "trick" questions, (lets call these "rabbit holed vanishing points" of self-righteousness) but also, refrain themselves, and everyone else within "earshot", that what they have achieved? Is Good (ENOUGH)! Matthew 19
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou WILT enter into life(?), keep the commandments.
And to these? I'm down with that!
What, I've been doing for almost as long as I've been posting almost exclusively in the BDF forum? Is not saying "thirty folders" are bad. On the "other hand?"
But, that those producing "thirty fold", yet seeing producing "thirty fold", is lacking TO them?
Are NOT bad, or teaching "doctrines of demons", or teachings of the spirit anti-christ/anti-God either!
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