Fallacies of the Present Day Church
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G
If a man has truly come to a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart, the very thought of giving in to sin again is enough to make a man sick to his stomach.
Psalm 51:17 (KJV)
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Matthew 21:42-44 (KJV)
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Luke 20:17-18 (KJV)
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
When we fall upon Jesus we are broken.
Have you ever seen a person say the "sinners prayer" on there face before God in a heap of remorse for the life they had been living, sinning against God?
I personally have NOT! All those I have witness saying this prayer get up from where they are laughing and joking and go right back to there current way of life.
When I came to Christ with a broke spirit, with a contrite heart, I was on my knees crying like a baby. I was ill for days with remorse for how I had sinned against my God; my Maker. All I could do for days was cry to Jesus for mercy. Crying to hime how sorry I was for how I had wronged him.
My life since that day has been lived to glorify My LORD and Saviour and seek the lost sharing his gospel message of LOVE.
I know others who have had this same experiance when coming to Christ whole heartedly. With there entire heart and soul.
It happens no other way.
To just go and say a prayer and get up believing, ok I am good to go, God will over look my sin now. These people are deceiving there own soul.
Proverbs 8:32-36 (KJV)
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
When we sin against God we wrongeth our own soul.
1 John 3:6-10 (KJV)
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Psalm 51:17 (KJV)
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Matthew 21:42-44 (KJV)
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Luke 20:17-18 (KJV)
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
When we fall upon Jesus we are broken.
Have you ever seen a person say the "sinners prayer" on there face before God in a heap of remorse for the life they had been living, sinning against God?
I personally have NOT! All those I have witness saying this prayer get up from where they are laughing and joking and go right back to there current way of life.
When I came to Christ with a broke spirit, with a contrite heart, I was on my knees crying like a baby. I was ill for days with remorse for how I had sinned against my God; my Maker. All I could do for days was cry to Jesus for mercy. Crying to hime how sorry I was for how I had wronged him.
My life since that day has been lived to glorify My LORD and Saviour and seek the lost sharing his gospel message of LOVE.
I know others who have had this same experiance when coming to Christ whole heartedly. With there entire heart and soul.
It happens no other way.
To just go and say a prayer and get up believing, ok I am good to go, God will over look my sin now. These people are deceiving there own soul.
Proverbs 8:32-36 (KJV)
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
When we sin against God we wrongeth our own soul.
1 John 3:6-10 (KJV)
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
M
Why do the babes always ring the same bells?
When I DID it, I....
I....I....I.....
You have all this wisdom and have witnessed all these false conversions in 3+ years?
You're doing better than the disciples who walked with Christ!
What will you young folks do when you actually mature and need the Body you've been kicking at?
When I DID it, I....
I....I....I.....
You have all this wisdom and have witnessed all these false conversions in 3+ years?
You're doing better than the disciples who walked with Christ!
What will you young folks do when you actually mature and need the Body you've been kicking at?
A
It was your responsibility to study on your own
now you want to blame it on church...maybe thats why
your focus is on other churches...i didnt get it at first.
Now i see you cant take responsibility. You want to
excuse your past sin problems on others. And your probably mad
seems so. Isnt that from pride? You seem to be falling out of the
pan and into the fire.
now you want to blame it on church...maybe thats why
your focus is on other churches...i didnt get it at first.
Now i see you cant take responsibility. You want to
excuse your past sin problems on others. And your probably mad
seems so. Isnt that from pride? You seem to be falling out of the
pan and into the fire.
E
Why is it that none of you have responded to my breakdown of Romans 7?
Paul would not be a heretic like the pharisees unless he boasted of his good deeds, and claimed he did not need Christ. What you say does not make sense. And he did not claim this one time in romans 7
Paul could not be talking in past tense either. He HAD to be talking about his present life.
As I showed.
1. He stated in this time he had already been delivered from the law. Where as in his past life he thought the law saved him.
2. He told we should live our lives in newness of spirit, and not the law. Which is a 180 degree turn from where he was in past tense.
3. He understood the law was good, but not to make him right before God, but to prove he was a sinner and needed Christ. Again, not like he believed before he came to Christ, the pharisee of all pharisees he was.
4. He admited he was carnal, under sin, Where as before, as a pharisee, he would never have admitted this
5. He showed he had already repented, as he learned to hate the sin in his life, whereas before he never would have admited his sin.
6. He knew it was not he who sinned, but the flesh in him, again proof of his true repentance
7. He admitted he delighted in the law of God, which again would not be true before conversion
8. He admitted their were two laws at war inside him, the spirit and the flesh. before he would not have had the spirit, so there would have been no war.
There is absolutely nothing in the passage which supports your view that paul spoke past tense, period!
Paul would not be a heretic like the pharisees unless he boasted of his good deeds, and claimed he did not need Christ. What you say does not make sense. And he did not claim this one time in romans 7
Paul could not be talking in past tense either. He HAD to be talking about his present life.
As I showed.
1. He stated in this time he had already been delivered from the law. Where as in his past life he thought the law saved him.
2. He told we should live our lives in newness of spirit, and not the law. Which is a 180 degree turn from where he was in past tense.
3. He understood the law was good, but not to make him right before God, but to prove he was a sinner and needed Christ. Again, not like he believed before he came to Christ, the pharisee of all pharisees he was.
4. He admited he was carnal, under sin, Where as before, as a pharisee, he would never have admitted this
5. He showed he had already repented, as he learned to hate the sin in his life, whereas before he never would have admited his sin.
6. He knew it was not he who sinned, but the flesh in him, again proof of his true repentance
7. He admitted he delighted in the law of God, which again would not be true before conversion
8. He admitted their were two laws at war inside him, the spirit and the flesh. before he would not have had the spirit, so there would have been no war.
There is absolutely nothing in the passage which supports your view that paul spoke past tense, period!
G
Abiding I did not answer your question about pork, as you were looking for an answer from skinski7, you made that very clear when another person gave answer to your question about pork, directed at skinski7.
I have addressed this question of eathing what God once called unclean animals, in another thread. If you take a look at my history of were I have posted you will find my answer to this question.
That you would ask such a question clearly demonstrates that you do not understand my words at all.
What did Paul teach?
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Whether one eats pork or not availeth nothing to the one who is IN Jesus Christ. It is by FAITH that WORKS BY LOVE which is key.
For it is LOVE which FULFILLS the righteous requirements of the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Those who ARE IN Christ Jesus are not under condemnation for they have the law established in their hearts (the law is not void Rom 3:31) and thus they walk after the Spirit and not the flesh. In doing so they fulfill the righteousness of the law.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Righteousness is not of the letter but of the Spirit. The letter kills but the Spirit brings life. What the law could not do (because it is external in application only) Christ was able to do (because it is of the heart) and thus by abiding IN Jesus Christ we have charity out of a pure heart, a good conscience and faith unfeigned (1Tim 1:5).
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Your allusion to pork in relation to my writings shows that in your mind you have a stronghold whereby you make no distinction between the "works of the law" and the "works of faith."
Adherence to the works of the law only serves to dress the outside of the cup. This was the error of the Pharisees who remained inwardly defiled.
The exercise of a working faith via yielding to the leading of God serves to purify the inward man whereby the outside may be clean also.
Hence obedience to God is absolutely mandatory in relation to the outcome of the salvation of the soul.
What did Paul teach?
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Whether one eats pork or not availeth nothing to the one who is IN Jesus Christ. It is by FAITH that WORKS BY LOVE which is key.
For it is LOVE which FULFILLS the righteous requirements of the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Those who ARE IN Christ Jesus are not under condemnation for they have the law established in their hearts (the law is not void Rom 3:31) and thus they walk after the Spirit and not the flesh. In doing so they fulfill the righteousness of the law.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Righteousness is not of the letter but of the Spirit. The letter kills but the Spirit brings life. What the law could not do (because it is external in application only) Christ was able to do (because it is of the heart) and thus by abiding IN Jesus Christ we have charity out of a pure heart, a good conscience and faith unfeigned (1Tim 1:5).
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Your allusion to pork in relation to my writings shows that in your mind you have a stronghold whereby you make no distinction between the "works of the law" and the "works of faith."
Adherence to the works of the law only serves to dress the outside of the cup. This was the error of the Pharisees who remained inwardly defiled.
The exercise of a working faith via yielding to the leading of God serves to purify the inward man whereby the outside may be clean also.
Hence obedience to God is absolutely mandatory in relation to the outcome of the salvation of the soul.
E
You have it horribly backwards. If what you say is true, were are not under grace, but under law. Whatever law you wish to call it does not matter. Your making salvation a merited thing, by which we can purchase by being obedient. You can not merit grace. Grace is unearned. As paul made it perfectly clear, if it is of Grace, it can not be of works. otherwise grace is no longer Grace. Paul also makes it clear we were not saved by works of righteousness (obedience to God) which we have done, But by Gods mercy.
You destroy mercy, and have bought into the lie of satan.
No my friend. You have it backwards.
What you should have said, and what would be more truthful is this
The outcome of salvation, is obedience to God.
Salvation comes first. Obedience follows. and is a natural occurrence to ALL who are saved. This is what scripture says.
You destroy mercy, and have bought into the lie of satan.
No my friend. You have it backwards.
What you should have said, and what would be more truthful is this
The outcome of salvation, is obedience to God.
Salvation comes first. Obedience follows. and is a natural occurrence to ALL who are saved. This is what scripture says.
M
This is too vague.
Your position is that your use of your "working faith" purifies you on the inside, as you "yield to the leading" of God.
Where is Jesus in the equation?
Do mean the start of salvation (regeneration)? What's your clause "to the outcome of"?
You do actually mean to say essentially, as you have elsewhere, that -
before The LORD causes a man to be born again, the man must purify his unregenerate inward man through obedience, as he yields to the leading of God via a working faith.
Right?
When do you suppose you were actually saved (justified; born again; sealed; set apart)?
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise - Ephesians 1:13
Another question for you:
For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous - Romans 5:9
is the One in Romans 5:9 you? Or is it a reference to every man's obedience?
Please answer the few sincere questions I have been asking Mr. Skinski.
I also have some questions about your teacher. His personal life.
Your position is that your use of your "working faith" purifies you on the inside, as you "yield to the leading" of God.
Where is Jesus in the equation?
Do mean the start of salvation (regeneration)? What's your clause "to the outcome of"?
You do actually mean to say essentially, as you have elsewhere, that -
before The LORD causes a man to be born again, the man must purify his unregenerate inward man through obedience, as he yields to the leading of God via a working faith.
Right?
When do you suppose you were actually saved (justified; born again; sealed; set apart)?
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise - Ephesians 1:13
Another question for you:
For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous - Romans 5:9
is the One in Romans 5:9 you? Or is it a reference to every man's obedience?
Please answer the few sincere questions I have been asking Mr. Skinski.
I also have some questions about your teacher. His personal life.