Fallen angels, humanity and Enoch
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D
We read in chapter 40 of the Book of Enoch...
We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:8-12...
1 And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude
2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5 And the second voice I heard blessing
6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord
8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: ‘Who are these four presences which I have
9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. What blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise. 1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God. 2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5 And the second voice I heard blessing
6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord
8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: ‘Who are these four presences which I have
9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:8-12...
8 ...And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the
9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to
10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation
11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
12 it is consuming me.
What ... man's wisdom came from a demon named Penemue? That's crazy! Did ink and paper cause the fall of the human race? Whoa ... I'd better through all my fine-point pens away immediately! It was Adam's sin that brought sin into the world (Romans 5:12); not evil literature. Mankind is inherently evil of himself, prone to the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). The Charismatics (Pentecostals) give far too much credit to demons for the sinful actions of men. They believe that every sin a person commits is evidence of demon-possession. That is absurd! Men and women sin because they are sinners! (Romans 3:10,23). Although demons definitely influence mankind to do evil, the ultimate decision is OURS. The Devil cannot force anyone to sin. People need to stop blaming demons and the Devil for their sins, and start looking into the mirror. God has promised to help His children live right... "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1st Corinthians 10:13). No excuses!9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to
10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation
11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
12 it is consuming me.
D
I want to point out that in no way am I going to list out all of the contradictions 
I think the best option like you said is to re-read and discern for yourself
I am not here to start an argument against or for the Book of Enoch, I like reading it, but would never preach/teach from it or call it Biblical doctirne
I think the best option like you said is to re-read and discern for yourself I am not here to start an argument against or for the Book of Enoch, I like reading it, but would never preach/teach from it or call it Biblical doctirne
.I'm not arguing for it myself, because there is room to question it both ways. I'm only responding here because I don't think the claims made against it are logical/credible enough to be considered legitimate. The "It's not in our bible, we do not need it to be saved so there is no reason to take it seriously" perspective is good enough reason for someone not to want to read it....but if someone wants to claim that the book itself is false or contradicts scripture, I won't personally agree with that conclusion unless it can be proven.
D
Copy paste from Jesus-Is-Savior? The first part that I emboldened and underlined is a good example of what I call a debatable claim of contradiction. "Who is set over" is also translated as "Presides Over" in the footnotes of the copy that I've been reading, means the same thing. Angels "watching over us" is a concept we already have, how does saying an Angel exists that watches over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life contradictory? Repentance and hope are a part of every one's experience that inherits eternal life as far as I am aware and something we all have. You could just as easily claim it just confirms scripture we already have. Couple examples.
Matthew 18:10:
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
"
Hebrews 1:14:
"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
"
An angel being associated with watching over the elect isn't a far out concept, angels do behold the face of God, minister to people, and watch over people so one being associated with repentance unto hope somehow contradicts the bible?
As for the second part that's underlined beneath the second section of green stuff.....the guy's response you are copying, he's so completely off by saying that. The verse says nothing of ink and paper causing the fall of the human race, the only thing it says it that many sinned by that knowledge. Nothing but ridicule and a strawman on that guy's part in this case. Just because this guy is off doesn't prove the book is authentic but trying to prove the book false needs a better argument than this guy is giving.
Matthew 18:10:
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
"
Hebrews 1:14:
"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
"
An angel being associated with watching over the elect isn't a far out concept, angels do behold the face of God, minister to people, and watch over people so one being associated with repentance unto hope somehow contradicts the bible?
As for the second part that's underlined beneath the second section of green stuff.....the guy's response you are copying, he's so completely off by saying that. The verse says nothing of ink and paper causing the fall of the human race, the only thing it says it that many sinned by that knowledge. Nothing but ridicule and a strawman on that guy's part in this case. Just because this guy is off doesn't prove the book is authentic but trying to prove the book false needs a better argument than this guy is giving.
I don't remember reading about Jesus saying that Angels can't breed. They can't be given in marriage. Even if people weren't allowed to marry, they still have the ability to breed.
Also the genetics don't make sense to me. Where did this dominant "super gene" come from? Even if it was just people breeding with people, it doesn't make sense that people would, out of no where, start springing out super babies. Maybe 1 or 2. But we are talking about an entire race of people.
Also, some people who are into the occult and astral project claim to have intercourse with entities (demons) while astral projecting. The only factor missing is another physical body to have offspring with. If Angels have the ability to take human form (the story of Lot?), then I think (maybe) they would have the ability to have offspring with humans.
Idk. What I find most interesting about the Book of Enoch are the things that these same angels supposedly taught the human race. Things that I always felt hurt humanity (the creation of jewelry and make-up) and things that people of ancient times couldn't have known (advanced astronomy. Our planet having a "wobble.) what part in the book were you referring to when you said that it claimed that Jesus was created? (I haven't read the whole book yet. Just bits and pieces)
Also the genetics don't make sense to me. Where did this dominant "super gene" come from? Even if it was just people breeding with people, it doesn't make sense that people would, out of no where, start springing out super babies. Maybe 1 or 2. But we are talking about an entire race of people.
Also, some people who are into the occult and astral project claim to have intercourse with entities (demons) while astral projecting. The only factor missing is another physical body to have offspring with. If Angels have the ability to take human form (the story of Lot?), then I think (maybe) they would have the ability to have offspring with humans.
Idk. What I find most interesting about the Book of Enoch are the things that these same angels supposedly taught the human race. Things that I always felt hurt humanity (the creation of jewelry and make-up) and things that people of ancient times couldn't have known (advanced astronomy. Our planet having a "wobble.) what part in the book were you referring to when you said that it claimed that Jesus was created? (I haven't read the whole book yet. Just bits and pieces)
I've finished all 5 books and I don't see any contradictions to the bible. It says Jesus was named before the earth, doesn't say created. We know from the bible that some books have been "sealed"-revelations so I don't agree with the "contradicting bible" theory. I'm not a fan of arguing things are certain like-"he wasn't commenting on scripture he was saying what he heard." we can believe one way or the other but until there is proof we should word things properly and leave opinion exactly that. Opinion. I am completely convinced that the bible is full of a mixed race, the ANAK for example. The Philistines, an army of giants. There are lots of tiny words they use that really paint a visible picture of something much larger going on than most bible teachers would have you believe. I don't believe anywhere in the book of Enoch were any newly stated laws, so that "not one jot or tittle will pass from the law" doesn't hold up. I'm not going to say it's cannon, but I'm not going to say it's not. I'll look into it more in depth at a later date. Some of the books don't seem like they are being told by the same author which the entire bible does succeed in, but some of those books-its been a week or so since I read it so bear with my memory but a few of those books did seem like they were written by the same author as the bible. I'll leave it at that. To each their own study.
D
There seems to be a lack of knowledge Dead Sea Scrolls here first the only books found in the Dead Sea Scrolls were chapters I Enoch 1-36, 72-82, 91-107. The rest of Enoch 1 & 2 should be consider not reliable, Gnostic, or fiction and written after the time of Christ. These chapters were found in Qumran cave 4. First this proves that these sections were at least copied 50-150 years before Christ. Second, cave 4 of Quman signifies it's importance to Jewish belief heritage. So as someone suggested earlier to dismiss this book because Qumran had really weird stuff..well the different cave numbers are important. Enoch was found with these books: Exodus, Deuteronomy, Jubilees(little Genesis--which by the way makes our version of Genesis look like cliff notes of Jewish record), the laws, Isaiah, and others that verify the canon that we know today. In addition, Enoch was discovered to have multiple copies made similar to Exodus and Deut. and this is key in understand that these passages were of great importance of Jewish teaching. Furthermore, the discovery of this book settles the man made idea that Gen. 6 refers to daughters of Seth and sons of Cain(not to mention many Bible verses to that affect as well). I personally take Jude literally when our authoritative canon deems Enoch as a prophet, and that he wrote the words. If this were the case, This would imply that it is perhaps the oldest written word that God provided. If you follow the history of Enoch in the last 2000 years you will find that it showed up in western culture in 1733 (originating in Spain) it is still considered to be part of the Ethiopian canon (area of Solomon), and then found in the Dead Sea in 1948. My person opinion is the reason that it was not included in the canon because the full amount of copies were kept in the Temple of Jerusalam which was destroyed in AD70. It would have been similar to how our Constitution was kept in one central location. So therefore it would have been lost in 300ad when our canon was being developed. Personally I don't think this information was needed for the church to be formed, but God did allow a Shepard boy to find these caves for a reason, we should not dismiss and call them pagen the Essenes where Jewish scribes that were tasked with copying cherished Jewish books. Like a copier in a library.
The Dead Sea Scrolls - Featured Scrolls
ENOCH
4Q Enocha
Date: 150–50 bce,
Hasmonean Period
Language: Aramaic
The book of Enoch was not included in the canon of the Hebrew Bible. It tells of Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah, who lived for 365 years and “walked with God”. The displayed fragment describes the heavenly revolt of the fallen angels, and their descent to earth to cohabit with the daughters of men and to reveal secret knowledge to mankind, a story hinted at in Gen. 6:1-4.
Enoch, Nephilim, Sons of God, Daughters of Men - from Blue Resonant Human - posted by watcher website
Qumran Caves (BiblePlaces.com)
The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
I have been fascinated with this book, my questions to my Theology teachers about Gen. 6 have all been answered. I never agreed with St. Augustine Catholic interpretation of Gen. 6 which all Western Christianity has adopted. Furthermore, to support the idea of fallen angels and their offspring in the Bible I have found the following.
Num. 13:33, Amos 2:9, Job 40:15-18, Duet. 3:11, 1 Co. 20:6, Ezra 9:2, Ez. 28 (this is not talking about Satan in my literal read of the Bible).
Further Biblical support in the NT that the disciples were influenced by Enoch and not the other way around.
Num.13: 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
Goliath was a descendant Anak.
Ezekiel 28:13-19 speaks that the King of Trye was a fallen angel.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
Luke17:26 "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. ( could be that the angels literally corrupted the DNA of Gods creation)
Jude 1:5-8 v6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
This is referencing the story of Enoch. No where else is this mentioned in the Bible about angels being chained up.
There is extensive research that has been done by Douglas Hamp in his book "corrupting the Image" proposing the theory that the fallen are back at it in our time and the 50yrs of hearing about millions of UFO sitings, abductions, etc. are in fact the fallen angels doing the same now as they were in Enoch's time. Promising technology, improved medicine, war technology and strategy, witchcraft etc. Very interesting well supported arguments.
The other interesting thing he points out is that there have been many historical documented remains of giants found over the last 150 years but the remains are gone. I find this funny because the Darwinists would have a hard time inserting a 16 man in there false theory.
The Dead Sea Scrolls - Featured Scrolls
ENOCH
4Q Enocha
Date: 150–50 bce,
Hasmonean Period
Language: Aramaic
The book of Enoch was not included in the canon of the Hebrew Bible. It tells of Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah, who lived for 365 years and “walked with God”. The displayed fragment describes the heavenly revolt of the fallen angels, and their descent to earth to cohabit with the daughters of men and to reveal secret knowledge to mankind, a story hinted at in Gen. 6:1-4.
Enoch, Nephilim, Sons of God, Daughters of Men - from Blue Resonant Human - posted by watcher website
Qumran Caves (BiblePlaces.com)
The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
I have been fascinated with this book, my questions to my Theology teachers about Gen. 6 have all been answered. I never agreed with St. Augustine Catholic interpretation of Gen. 6 which all Western Christianity has adopted. Furthermore, to support the idea of fallen angels and their offspring in the Bible I have found the following.
Num. 13:33, Amos 2:9, Job 40:15-18, Duet. 3:11, 1 Co. 20:6, Ezra 9:2, Ez. 28 (this is not talking about Satan in my literal read of the Bible).
Further Biblical support in the NT that the disciples were influenced by Enoch and not the other way around.
Num.13: 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
Goliath was a descendant Anak.
Ezekiel 28:13-19 speaks that the King of Trye was a fallen angel.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
Luke17:26 "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. ( could be that the angels literally corrupted the DNA of Gods creation)
Jude 1:5-8 v6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
This is referencing the story of Enoch. No where else is this mentioned in the Bible about angels being chained up.
There is extensive research that has been done by Douglas Hamp in his book "corrupting the Image" proposing the theory that the fallen are back at it in our time and the 50yrs of hearing about millions of UFO sitings, abductions, etc. are in fact the fallen angels doing the same now as they were in Enoch's time. Promising technology, improved medicine, war technology and strategy, witchcraft etc. Very interesting well supported arguments.
The other interesting thing he points out is that there have been many historical documented remains of giants found over the last 150 years but the remains are gone. I find this funny because the Darwinists would have a hard time inserting a 16 man in there false theory.