Fallen Nature Testing
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I just went back to your #10 post. Either I had forgotten the last part, or I failed to read it all. Thank you brother in Christ! You're exactly where I'm at. Does that mean we should not "seek" answers to our non-understandings and questions? I think not. I think we think as we do often questioning God because he wants us to seek the answers and spend our lifetime with him, God on our minds. I figure we'll get the answers when its time, "Gods Time."
.
Regarding the forbidden fruit incident depicted in the 3rd chapter of the
book of Genesis:
• Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race.
Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone
sinned.
FAQ: How is it fair to charge the entire human race with the sin of one man?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: Why do I have to die for something I didn't do?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: I was made a sinner before I was even born?
A: Yes.
RESPONSE: That makes me angry!
REPLY: You should be angry, and if you're not, then I really have to question
your moral values, i.e. your sense of justice, and your perception of right
and wrong.
RESPONSE: Romans 5:12 is a mistake. According to Ezek 18:20, children
are not responsible for their father's sins.
REPLY: According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not
retroactive, i.e. Ezek 18:20 was enacted too late to have any say in Adam's life.
FAQ: Does my anger in this matter mean that I test positive for the fallen
nature?
A: You test positive.
• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
_
Regarding the forbidden fruit incident depicted in the 3rd chapter of the
book of Genesis:
• Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race.
Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone
sinned.
FAQ: How is it fair to charge the entire human race with the sin of one man?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: Why do I have to die for something I didn't do?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: I was made a sinner before I was even born?
A: Yes.
RESPONSE: That makes me angry!
REPLY: You should be angry, and if you're not, then I really have to question
your moral values, i.e. your sense of justice, and your perception of right
and wrong.
RESPONSE: Romans 5:12 is a mistake. According to Ezek 18:20, children
are not responsible for their father's sins.
REPLY: According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not
retroactive, i.e. Ezek 18:20 was enacted too late to have any say in Adam's life.
FAQ: Does my anger in this matter mean that I test positive for the fallen
nature?
A: You test positive.
• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
_
Who has the perfect authority to take away life, but the creator of all life? Either the great plan for life is set in stone, or it's all hogwash. Thus, it does seem we all do have a free choice. Is our choice inevitable? I don't know! "Get thee behind me Satan," I choose my Lord Jesus, The Father and The Holy Spirit!
.
There's a significant element of difference between the actions of Jesus and
Adam.
Everyone gets slammed with the consequences related to Adam's act;
whereas the blessings related to Jesus' act are limited to the few that are
chosen from among the many that are called.
The above makes no sense to a reasonable person because if Christ died for
everybody, then why isn't everybody chosen? And if it's God's will that
everybody be saved; then why aren't they?
Christians have invented a variety of canned apologies with which to respond
to those kinds of questions, while no doubt in the backs of their minds struggling
with the lunacy of it all.
_
There's a significant element of difference between the actions of Jesus and
Adam.
Everyone gets slammed with the consequences related to Adam's act;
whereas the blessings related to Jesus' act are limited to the few that are
chosen from among the many that are called.
The above makes no sense to a reasonable person because if Christ died for
everybody, then why isn't everybody chosen? And if it's God's will that
everybody be saved; then why aren't they?
Christians have invented a variety of canned apologies with which to respond
to those kinds of questions, while no doubt in the backs of their minds struggling
with the lunacy of it all.
_
This kind goes with the debate between Calvinism vs Arminianism. In my own personal opinion I believe they are both a little bit right and a little bit incorrect.
If God is sovereign and the creator of all things, would He really be injustice to give grace to some while condemning others? The answer would most certainly have to be no
What other standard would a human have to judge God by? I don’t find any lunacy with it. I’m not God. For God spoke through Isaiah:
“Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
If God is sovereign and the creator of all things, would He really be injustice to give grace to some while condemning others? The answer would most certainly have to be no
What other standard would a human have to judge God by? I don’t find any lunacy with it. I’m not God. For God spoke through Isaiah:
“Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
.
I didn't start this thread to discuss the pluses and minuses of various belief
systems, rather to discuss elements of the so-called fallen nature.
Most Christians will readily admit to the universality of the fallen nature; but
apparently believe themselves immune to its effects. But John pointed out in
his first epistle that if Christians say they have no sin, it means they are
failing to be totally honest about themselves, viz: their introspection is
shaded.
I'm convinced there is a day coming when I will be called on the carpet to
answer for myself. That is not the time for dissembling, i.e. to cover up
one's true feelings with pious platitudes and apologetic rhetoric. I want to be
100% transparent if perchance Christ asks me some very personal, penetrating
questions; for example:
How I really felt about God knowing ahead of time, even before creating
human life, that one day He would be destroying most of it in a deluge; not
to mention confining much of it in Hell and later on executing them via a
mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
By means of precognition, the creator saw all that coming yet went ahead
and created human life anyway. How did I really feel about that?
How I really felt about being forced to get old and die due to one man's sin?
How I really felt about being made a sinner due to one man's sin?
How I really felt about God not stepping in to stop the Serpent from
tempting Eve?
When I gave some serious thought to how God goes about His business, did
I come to the conclusion that some of His ways are neither reasonable nor
sane?
I've no doubt that a pretty fair number of Christians are going to choke
when they're required to give truly honest answers to those kinds of
questions. Some are very good at snowing each other, but their snow jobs
won't succeed with Jesus because he won't be so much interested in what
they knew about certain things, rather, how they felt about certain things.
The poor creatures are totally unprepared for the psychological tsunami
headed straight towards them.
• Rev 1:12-14 . . I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. . . . his eyes
were as a flame of fire.
_
I didn't start this thread to discuss the pluses and minuses of various belief
systems, rather to discuss elements of the so-called fallen nature.
Most Christians will readily admit to the universality of the fallen nature; but
apparently believe themselves immune to its effects. But John pointed out in
his first epistle that if Christians say they have no sin, it means they are
failing to be totally honest about themselves, viz: their introspection is
shaded.
I'm convinced there is a day coming when I will be called on the carpet to
answer for myself. That is not the time for dissembling, i.e. to cover up
one's true feelings with pious platitudes and apologetic rhetoric. I want to be
100% transparent if perchance Christ asks me some very personal, penetrating
questions; for example:
How I really felt about God knowing ahead of time, even before creating
human life, that one day He would be destroying most of it in a deluge; not
to mention confining much of it in Hell and later on executing them via a
mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
By means of precognition, the creator saw all that coming yet went ahead
and created human life anyway. How did I really feel about that?
How I really felt about being forced to get old and die due to one man's sin?
How I really felt about being made a sinner due to one man's sin?
How I really felt about God not stepping in to stop the Serpent from
tempting Eve?
When I gave some serious thought to how God goes about His business, did
I come to the conclusion that some of His ways are neither reasonable nor
sane?
I've no doubt that a pretty fair number of Christians are going to choke
when they're required to give truly honest answers to those kinds of
questions. Some are very good at snowing each other, but their snow jobs
won't succeed with Jesus because he won't be so much interested in what
they knew about certain things, rather, how they felt about certain things.
The poor creatures are totally unprepared for the psychological tsunami
headed straight towards them.
• Rev 1:12-14 . . I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. . . . his eyes
were as a flame of fire.
_
Good response. I appreciate you willing to elaborate on what you’re thread is about.
I can only answer for myself. As I have been given God revelation, I always have in the back of my mind “I am a man without excuse”
Do I have much to answer for? Yes I do. Is it my faith and total belief that Christ will call me not guilty by his atonement for my transgressions against Him? Yes
I can only answer for myself. As I have been given God revelation, I always have in the back of my mind “I am a man without excuse”
Do I have much to answer for? Yes I do. Is it my faith and total belief that Christ will call me not guilty by his atonement for my transgressions against Him? Yes
You got a point but since they are now In CHRIST being created new and equipped with a desire to display spiritual good fruit they should now present their bodies a living sacrifice because now they love GOD and should let others see the goodness of GOD.
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
