Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

Grace777x70 · May 21, 2017

We are in Christ because of God's doing. We don't go in and out of Christ. It's religious nonsense.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. Is Jesus a liar? That's something we will all have to answer for ourselves. I believe Him.

2 Corinthians 5:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

How do we get "sealed with the Holy Spirit forever like Jesus said?"

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple but it was not cheap - it cost the Son of God our Lord His blood and life to "obtain eternal redemption" for us. Heb. 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

AllenW · May 21, 2017

FranC said:

Yes, but who leaves him?
Who claims to be born again that leaves him?
Such a person is easily scrutinized if they fall away from Jesus.
The fruit of the Spirit is not there.
Unsaved to begin with.

FranC · May 21, 2017

Sagart said:

John 3:36 comes to mind. Not sure if it's in the O.P.

He who BELIEVES (Always present tense) in the Son has eternal life,
He who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
NASB

There are so many verses supporting loss of salvation that it is truly not understandable how anyone could debate this.
Not to mention the fact that the concept did not even exist before Calvin. 1,500 years after Jesus' resurrection.
Did anyone not think of this before then? The early Christians did. They wrote about loss of salvation...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

These men, whose words you are about to read, were not far removed from the original apostles of our LORD and His Gospel and held fast to His Word – “the apostle’s doctrine.” (Acts 2:42)

Perhaps these words, since they are consistent with what we read in the whole of the Word of God, are worthy to be accepted as supplemental, yet not on the same level of authority as the truth of Holy Writ. The purpose of placing these words in this volume is to show a preponderance of witnesses to the divine truth once delivered to the saints of Christ (Jude 3-4). This is an historical witness to the truth of Scripture. Some who read this will have been surrounded by those who espouse Calvin’s teachings and have had little exposure to the words of other men and their view of Bible truth.

Knowing truth from error is the result of becoming intimately and personally familiar with the contents of the New Testament Scriptures. As we behold what Christ and His apostles taught we are then able to rightly divide the Word of truth and discern who is and who is not teaching and speaking according to the original Gospel (2 Tim. 2:15; 3:16; Heb. 5:11-14).

Today, many who are within Christendom, go back to Calvin, a man with no genuine kingdom authority whatsoever – because he simply did not honor the counsel of God (Isa. 8:20; 1 Pet. 4:11). If we are going to look back to mere men for inspiration and authority, why not go a little further back than Calvin? Why not do the right thing and look to “holy men of God” who “spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost”? (2 Pet. 1:20-21)When we do, we will find John Calvin to be a heretical false teacher who spent his years poisoning the church world with his “private interpretation” and outright and outlandish falsehoods.

It is unfortunate that some people follow the teachings of this mere man when they have complete access to the very Word of God. We make the word of God of no effect when we place the words of mere men above the truth given us of the Almighty.

“This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition…Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” Mark 7:6-9, 13

John Calvin came on the scene and grossly perverted the grace of God as foretold by Jude in Jude 3-4. Calvin set forth and re-established the lie that would continue through the centuries to be responsible for the damnation of millions of souls who believed and died believing they were eternally secure no matter what spiritual state they died in.

QUOTES FROM EARLY CHURCH FATHERS BEFORE THE CORRUPTION OF UNCONDITIONAL ETERNAL SECURITY SET IN:

“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For ‘cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” (Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, A.D.110)

“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” (Didache, A.D.140)

“That eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition.” (Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1, A.D.156)

“Christ shall not die again in behalf of those who now commit sin, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom. And therefore it was that Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.’” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2 A.D. 180)

“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwillingly. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” (Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 A.D. 204)

“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)

“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)

“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)

“He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)

“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law] and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death—you will by no means be saved.” (Justin Martyr, A.D. 160)

“Rather, we should fear ourselves, lest perchance, after we have come to the knowledge of Christ, if we do those things displeasing to God, we obtain not further forgiveness for sin, but are shut out of His kingdom.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)

“He who hopes for everlasting rest knows also that the entrance to it is toilsome and narrow. So let him who has once received the gospel not turn back.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)

FranC · May 21, 2017

AllenW said:

Please see post no. 223.

No one says that it's easy to leave God once one has tasted His love.
However, as I've said many times, we cannot say that it is not IMPOSSIBLE.

The early Christians, those who knew the Apostles, did NOT believe in eternal security.
Who are we to trust more, them, or Calvin?

I trust them and the bible.
How does one ignore all the verses in the OP??

Jesus never said all we had to do was to believe in Him.
He DID say that we were to BELLIEVE in Him. Follow Him, do as He commanded.

Grace777x70 · May 21, 2017

A question that always gets presented from people that believe they can lose their salvation is this.

So what happens if we no longer believe?

So, this implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?

We believe in the heart - not in the head.

People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick. This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ anytime throughout eternity.

What a mess of insecurity that is. We don't save ourselves. Christ is the Savior.

It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now in heaven choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.

No, my brethren - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

FranC · May 21, 2017

Ignatius of Antioch, quoted above in no. 223, KNEW and studied with John the Apostle.

Could we not trust what he says??

FranC · May 21, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

A question that always gets presented from people that believe they can lose their salvation is this.

So what happens if we no longer believe?

So, this implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?

We believe in the heart - not in the head.

People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick. This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ anytime throughout eternity.

What a mess of insecurity that is. We don't save ourselves. Christ is the Savior.

It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now in heaven choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.

No, my brethren - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

Jesus doesn't leave you.
YOU leave Him.

FranC · May 21, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

P.S.

The "mess of insecurity" is when I hear someone say about a believer that has fallen away:

"he was never saved to begin with".

Do you realize that this means YOU cannot be certain of YOUR salvation?
If it doesn't depend on your FREE WILL, how can you be sure that one morning you will wake up and have no faith and realize you were never saved to begin with??

I, OTOH, remain saved of my OWN VOLITION, my own FREE WILL. I "will" to remain in Christ.
I am therefore SECURE in my salvation.

AllenW · May 21, 2017

Chris1975 said:

[SUP]May the Spirit of God open your eyes to the below, so that if you are in error, you may repent and get onboard with the will of God and preach truth on this matter. Its not about pridefully defending your position. It's about the truth.

Colossians 1v21-23

21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-These were believers above
-They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
-this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.

Other evidences:

Luke 22 v31-32

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the Lord said,[SUP][c][/SUP] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

Now what is plain to see is this:
-If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.

1 Timothy 2 v18-20

[SUP]18 [/SUP]This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, [SUP]19 [/SUP]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [SUP]20 [/SUP]of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2 Timothy 2 v16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [SUP]18 [/SUP]who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[SUP][c][/SUP] depart from iniquity.”

Now what is plain to see is this:
-its possible to stray concerning the truth
-its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
-faith can be overthrown.
-these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
-sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.

Jude
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
-by not contending for this, it can be lost.

2 Timothy 4v7-8

[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
-why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.

1 John 5v4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[SUP][a][/SUP] faith.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
-What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).

Revelation 2v10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
-Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
-the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.

The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:
Revelation 2v7b To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
Revelation 2v11b He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 2v17b To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
Revelation 2v26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Revelation 3v5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 3v12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
Revelation 3v21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne

Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:

Hebrews 6v4-6

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][b][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Let there no no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
-once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.

Nothing here says you can lose your salvation.
Your understanding of the English language is very weak at best.

Sagart · May 21, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

True Christians are in Christ because of what God has done, and because of what they have done—and are continuing to do!

John 3:16. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

John 5:24. “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

John 3:36. “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 20:31. “but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.”

Grace777x70 said:

I believe Jesus, but I do not believe false statements about what He has said.

Grace777x70 · May 21, 2017

All the scriptures from the OP have been answered many times and in many threads.

Is Jesus a liar? Can we really trust Him when He said that they Holy Spirit will be in you forever? Was He lying when He said that no one can pluck them out of My hands nor the Father's hand?

Was He lying when He said "I will never leave nor forsake you?"

The apostle John says this about our eternal life and the truth that abides with us forever.

1 John 5:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Here John is saying that the truth ( Jesus is the Truth. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth ) abides with us forever. John says that "all those that know the truth"

2 John 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
The elder to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Everyone needs to decide whether Jesus and John are liars. I believe them.

Preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ so that they Christians can grow up in Him and bear much fruit.

AllenW · May 21, 2017

FranC said:

Your salvation depends on 3 "I"s.
That puts you in the center on your salvation.
I thought Jesus was suppose to be at the center of not just our salvation, but everything else as well?

Rockrz · May 21, 2017

Let me guess... you recommend get an appointment for some ointment with your pope?

Or maybe one of those priest dudes?

reneweddaybyday · May 21, 2017

Sagart said:

Here's your rendering of the parable:

Luke 15:

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, [snip]

5 And when he hath found it, [snip] rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for [snip] my sheep which was lost.

: rolleyes :

Sagart said:

And, of course, because you do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ leaving the 99 in order to search for the lost and bring him/her back to the fold, that believer is now condemned.

: rolleyes :

FranC · May 21, 2017

Sagart said:

True Christians are in Christ because of what God has done, and because of what they have done—and are continuing to do!

John 3:16. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

John 5:24. “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

John 3:36. “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 20:31. “but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.”

I believe Jesus, but I do not believe false statements about what He has said.

AllenW · May 21, 2017

Rockrz said:

That is very anti-christian to insult someone that way.
You do not belong here.
You are a heathen at best.
You need to learn to socialize.
Tell me what church you go to so I can have a talk with your pastor.

Grace777x70 · May 21, 2017

So...I take it those that believe Christians lose their salvation believe Jesus said these "false statements".

The Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16 - Is Jesus lying here? Apparently to some of us.

Jesus said "I will never leave you nor forsake you". He is lying here too.

Jesus said that "No one can pluck them out of My hands nor the Father's hands " He is consistent in His lying...

Jesus said "It is the Father's will that none that come to Me will I lose." This guy lies constantly about things. How can we trust someone like that? Who is continually telling you things but He is not telling us the truth?

No, the truth is Jesus is NOT a liar and He can be trusted.

This lose your salvation false doctrine has done more harm to the body of Christ then any other foul thoughts put into the minds of man by our enemy. It creates a works-based/works-righteousness false doctrine that nullifies the very grace of God needed to operate like it was meant to in Christians lives.

If we would only preach the gospel of the love and grace of God in Christ and Him crucified and we too were crucified with Him - then people would have the nutrients needed to grow up in Christ.

FranC · May 21, 2017

reneweddaybyday said:

First of all, Sagart is correct in his rendering of the word BELIEVE in the N.T.
Few here realize the importance of understanding this.
In fact, I should ask for privilidges to copy and paste it when necessary because it's explained so well !

Second, the lost sheep is referring to a person who HAS NEVER BEEN SAVED.
Luke 15:7 explains the entire parable, again as Sagart has correctly stated.

There will be more joy in heaven over ONE SINNER who REPENTS... than over 99 RIGHTEOUS person who need no repnetence.
God is Always happy when someone COMES INTO THE FOLD.

The 99 are already found. Jesus said I Have Come For The Sick Not The Healthy. The healthy do not need a physician.
Mark 2:17

If you notice, the lost sheep went willingly with Jesus. He didn't force the sheep to go back into the fold.

Does God EVER force us to do anything?
Do we have Free Will?

FranC · May 21, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I'm never sure who you're taking to --- I think it's me.

You keep repeating about how Jesus said He would never leave us.
You keep saying how Jesus is not a liar.

I keep telling you HE NEVER LEAVES US.
It's US WHO LEAVE HIM.

You keep repeating the same things over and over again.
Why don't you believe all the things Jesus says when He begs us to FOLLOW HIM and do what He commanded?
Do those verses not suit you?

He speaks of branches being cut off and burned because they do not produce good fruit.
He speaks about how we will obey His commandments IF we are His friends. Mathew 7:19
Paul repeats this in Romans 12:21

What does Luke 22:31-32 mean to you?

AllenW · May 21, 2017

FranC said:

First of all, Sagart is correct in his rendering of the word BELIEVE in the N.T.
Few here realize the importance of understanding this.
In fact, I should ask for privilidges to copy and paste it when necessary because it's explained so well !

Second, the lost sheep is referring to a person who HAS NEVER BEEN SAVED.
Luke 15:7 explains the entire parable, again as Sagart has correctly stated.

There will be more joy in heaven over ONE SINNER who REPENTS... than over 99 RIGHTEOUS person who need no repnetence.
God is Always happy when someone COMES INTO THE FOLD.

The 99 are already found. Jesus said I Have Come For The Sick Not The Healthy. The healthy do not need a physician.
Mark 2:17

If you notice, the lost sheep went willingly with Jesus. He didn't force the sheep to go back into the fold.

Does God EVER force us to do anything?
Do we have Free Will?

You do not have free will.
If you do, prove it by walking away from Jesus.
You can't do it.

Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member