Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[FranC]

It is also very comforting to know that if / when we do stumble / fall, the Lord Jesus Christ searches for us, finds us, places us on His shoulders, and carries us back to the fold.


I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to search me out until He finds me more than I trust myself to turn back to Him if I stumble / fall.


(And please understand, nowhere have I ever condoned a life of sin, so please do not think that I am in any way, shape, or form saying that it is okay to sin.)

I wish we could really read each other's posts and understand them.
This is 90% of the problem here.

I NEVER said you condone a life of sin.

OTOH, you did not understand what I said.

Did I say that if we fall and stumble we lose our salvation?
That means we would lose it every day and have to get it back every day --- and probably more than once a day.

I said if we decide to LEAVE GOD, ABANDON HIM, LOSE OUR FAITH...
I don't lose my faith when I sin.

Do you see the difference?

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 10:26 "If you keep on sinning willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." "No longer" means there once genuinely did- therefore it is possible to lose your salvation since it is dependent upon Christ's sacrifice covering your sins. And therefore OSAS is a false teaching that does not match the Bible.

This has been addressed at least over 30x times and yet this is still being put forth.

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.

Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.

 

[Stephen63]

G777 is getting so bad that you can just about read what he writes & know that the opposite is true.

 

[mailmandan]

G777 is getting so bad that you can just about read what he writes & know that the opposite is true.

Do you ever have anything encouraging to say?

 

[Grace777x70]

We really need to learn the true nature of our Lord and Father towards us.

When everyone had abandoned Jesus at the cross - except for John for a season. They went back to their every day lives - fishing. What did Jesus do when He came to see them? He blessed them and told them where to get a boat-load of fish. Then He cooked some fish and breakfast for them when they came in.

He didn't forsake them and leave them because of their "behavior". He came to reveal Himself and His love for them and He said that He would never leave them nor forsake them. He is with them until the end of the age.

He did say "Lo " I am with you - so it might mean that He can't help us if we are flying high in a plane..

We really need to hear about the love and grace of God for us in the gospel message of the Lord Jesus Christ. All these "lose your salvation" threads and posts are just a distraction from Christ Himself.

We need to have the firm foundation in Christ - then give the warning scriptures so that our faith doesn't get ship-wrecked but without the proper foundation in Christ - the warning scriptures are used to bring defeat and works-righteousness which nullifies the grace of God needed in order to walk in the life of Christ on this earth and to walk by the spirit.

Without the solid foundation in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection - the warnings are being used to pointing to "us and what we do" and that is not the gospel message.

He loved, He gave. We believed and now we live.

 

[Grace777x70]

Do you ever have anything encouraging to say?

Just ignore that stuff...Romans 16:17

It is actually a good sign........The Lord will be faithful to all of us!

 

[Stephen63]

Do you ever have anything encouraging to say?

Actually, yes..... there's only a handful of easy believism now that are pounding false doctrine down our throats. That's quite encouraging..... at least for me.

 

[preacher4truth]

G777 is getting so bad that you can just about read what he writes & know that the opposite is true.

Unfortunately you've nailed it.

 

[Stephen63]

When someone twists the meaning of a single scripture to change its meaning while ignoring several scriptures against it, that person is in rebellion against God.

 

[preacher4truth]

Actually, yes..... there's only a handful of easy believism now that are pounding false doctrine down our throats. That's quite encouraging..... at least for me.

The spirit of Ahab is still alive, eh? And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat:

“Did I not tell you that he would not prophesy good concerning me, but evil?” - 1 Kings 22:18

Boo-hoo!

Don't you ever say anything good, encouraging, uplifting, tingly, feel-good, ear-scratching, "edifying," to the false teachers Stephen63?

 

[Stephen63]

Nah, I'm usually too busy rebuking & refuting it.

 

[preacher4truth]

When someone twists the meaning of a single scripture to change its meaning while ignoring several scriptures against it, that person is in rebellion against God.

Some may do so in ignorance. When it is a daily practice, that is definitely a false teacher and a rebellious spirit. It's "biblical abracadabra."

 

[valiant]

G777 is getting so bad that you can just about read what he writes & know that the opposite is true.

It seems to me that you are blind to the truth. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[valiant]

When someone twists the meaning of a single scripture to change its meaning while ignoring several scriptures against it, that person is in rebellion against God.

then its about time you stopped rebelling,

 

[mailmandan]

Actually, yes..... there's only a handful of easy believism now that are pounding false doctrine down our throats. That's quite encouraging..... at least for me.

Do you prefer hard believism? Salvation by grace through faith, not works, is not hard to understand, just hard for many people to ACCEPT.

 

[garee]

Originally Posted by OneFaith

Hebrews 10:26 "If you keep on sinning willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." "No longer" means there once genuinely did- therefore it is possible to lose your salvation since it is dependent upon Christ's sacrifice covering your sins. And therefore OSAS is a false teaching that does not match the Bible.

Many ignore the fact in a hope they could be found with a righteousness of their own self (self rightous) that there are two separate groups spoken of in Hebrews 6 .One group thinks that if they in their own minds re-sacrifice Christ every time they sin therefore exposing Christ to public shame as if one demonstration of a spiritual work was not enough to satisfy the just demands of the Father. The other group is informed by the Spirit of Christi that dwells in them eternally… “Better things” accompany salvation. Which would be the work of Christ’s faith as a labor of His love was sufficient to accomplish His purpose of giving us eternal life. Not a life long enough until the next time he is sacrificed in ones own mind.


Which group would you be with? The ones blessed by actully being redeemed or the ones that bears thorns.The eternal group or the ones that would expose Christ to public shame. Us or them?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenlyAnd have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But, beloved, we are persuaded "better things" of you, and things that accompany salvation(actual redemtion),we thus speak.Heb 6:4

 

[Grace777x70]

Do you prefer hard believism? Salvation by grace through faith, not works, is not hard to understand, just hard for many people to ACCEPT.

Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war for the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. It is only by grace through faith in what Christ has already done that we receive the benefits of this grace that we stand in now.

We are to be bold to speak out the love and grace of our Father and Lord towards all of us that is in the gospel of the grace of God in Christ alone.

It's interesting in the gospels where it talks about the Pharisees and Sadducees "coming together" to attack Christ when they would usually be at odds with each other.

I have noticed that very same principle occurring - when people that believe in eternal life in Christ and those that don't believe it eternal life will "join together" to attack another person about the grace and love of God - or about the "elect" or about the end times...etc.

It's just the flesh acting up. When the knife is at the throat of one of our "sacred cows" teachings from our church and tradition and our denomination. The flesh gets activated and the personal attacks begin.

That is why Paul said to implement Romans 16:17 and not interact with them and also because of 1 Cor. 15:33 and then the end result is a Heb. 12:15 situation.

It's to be expected. 2 Tim. 3:12

The Lord will be faithful to all of us....All is well...

 

[garee]

Actually, yes..... there's only a handful of easy believism now that are pounding false doctrine down our throats. That's quite encouraging..... at least for me.

Do you find it hard to believe God when he gives you His work of faith to make it possible? After all it is the work of God that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure by which we can believe him. Some think that faith(Christ's) that works in us is of their own self? I think he did the hard work. His yoke is easy.

What is easy beleivism? Hear and believe?

 

[preacher4truth]

Do you prefer hard believism? Salvation by grace through faith, not works, is not hard to understand, just hard for many people to ACCEPT.

I don't believe that the "hard believe-ism" excuse, coined by Swindoll is the answer, nor does it reflect the opposite of easy-believe-ism. The term is simply made to be a belligerency toward the Gospel that transforms believers. I get the concept behind it, but it doesn't fit, it is non-sequitur.

That being said, easy-believe-ism would encompass a gospel that does not necessarily transform the person. Frankly, that is no Gospel at all; note 2 Corinthians 3:17ff.

If we follow logically, then hard-believe-ism would be a Gospel that does transform believers. The easy-believe-ism gospel does not necessarily do this, i.e. Free Grace Theology and another newer heresy that doesn't need to be mentioned by name. This is why it is termed "easy-believe-ism" showing it to be error, and thus rightly termed.

But false gospels do just that, when the gospel isn't believed to be transforming, there need be no transformation, just a promise of pie-in-the-sky, "When you die, you're going to heaven."

Thus the Gospel has been dumbed-down and truncated. Some of these "intense favor" systems throw out transformation, repentance, evidence of conversion, the necessity of examination of conversion, defense of the faith against false teachers, and conflate Scriptures showing the changed nature into "a works gospel" in order to malign the one true Gospel of Christ that transforms all who are converted.

Yes, salvation is by Grace through faith, what we are now talking about is how that Gospel works in a man, of its fruit and evidence. If anyone wants to call that hard-believe-ism then it shows they really do not understand the Gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, salvation is by Grace through faith, what we are now talking about is how that Gospel works in a man, and its fruit and evidence.

Faith is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Repentance is not excluded from faith and transformation and evidence of conversion is not excluded from conversion. It's not that difficult to understand, yet certain people make it hard.