Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

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Dec 28, 2016
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Faith is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Repentance is not excluded from faith and transformation and evidence of conversion is not excluded from conversion. It's not that difficult to understand, yet certain people make it hard.
Alright, fair enough, and you should be preaching that as often in your Gospel as well as the faith and grace piece. Don't curtail it.

I don't believe I've made it hard, the Gospel needs studied and drawn out as I've attempted to explain it. That is, by the way, what we do when we preach the Gospel to the church - we exposit these truths. It examines those professing belief, and many get offended and call it works when it is nothing of the sort. Those who love and know the truth, and have their understanding enlightened and expanded to know the Gospel further, Ephesians 1:18 feed off of this Gospel fare.

But I digress, some have heard a false gospel so against works that they cannot get past evidence of salvation and conflate it with a works gospel.

You have to remember something brother, it is only easy for the truly converted to understand.

I don't buy the easy-believe-ism gospel. If anyone wants to call the Gospel I believe in hard-believe-ism, I couldn't care less.

But, that being said, some truncate the true gospel, and that is seen on here, so, it is not only the works crowd that is at fault: those who preach the easy-believe-ism described in my previous post are in just as much grave error. Both are preaching a false gospel.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Personally I believe that preaching the grace of God in the gospel of Christ without the other transformation part that grace brings is not right and perhaps there are some that do that - but I have not seen it.

I have seen others "accuse" them of saying it because they only hear the first part of grace being put forth which is the acceptance grace but didn't stay for the other transformational part - which is the empowering grace that brings true transformation of the life of Christ being manifested in and through us. Thus they attack the "acceptance" part of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and call it "easy believe-ism".
 
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Glozz

Guest
I love this! Very detailed and enlightening. God bless You sir!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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There are 2 aspects to grace and it can be seen in Jesus dealings with a woman caught in adultery.

The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. (
the law condemns us )

Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.


1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior -
as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".

It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.

Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."

The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!

"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part.

This just drives them nuts and I understand why because it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions and some church teachings from our denomination or "group".
 
Mar 28, 2016
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It's interesting in the gospels where it talks about the Pharisees and Sadducees "coming together" to attack Christ when they would usually be at odds with each other.

I have noticed that very same principle occurring - when people that believe in eternal life in Christ and those that don't believe it eternal life will "join together" to attack another person about the grace and love of God - or about the "elect" or about the end times...etc.
Yes it’s interesting the Pharisees with the Sadducees. Those who walk by sight with those who walk by sight.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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You know the Sadducees did not believe in the
resurrection so that's why they were... sad... you see
 
Mar 23, 2016
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FranC said:
Did I say that if we fall and stumble we lose our salvation?
That means we would lose it every day and have to get it back every day --- and probably more than once a day.

I said if we decide to LEAVE GOD, ABANDON HIM, LOSE OUR FAITH...
I don't lose my faith when I sin.

Do you see the difference?
Look at the parable of the forgiving father shown in Luke 15:17-32.

You know that at the time a person is born again, God begins a transforming process in him/her. God starts writing His laws in the hearts and minds of His children. This transforming process begins at the moment of salvation and continues until the redemption of the purchased possession (Eph 1:14). We may turn for a time, but just as the son in the parable of Luke 15, we come back because we realize how horrible life is without Father. And Father waits for us to return to Him and while we are yet a great way off, He runs to us (Luke 15:20).
 
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Look at the parable of the forgiving father shown in Luke 15:17-32.

You know that at the time a person is born again, God begins a transforming process in him/her. God starts writing His laws in the hearts and minds of His children. This transforming process begins at the moment of salvation and continues until the redemption of the purchased possession (Eph 1:14). We may turn for a time, but just as the son in the parable of Luke 15, we come back because we realize how horrible life is without Father. And Father waits for us to return to Him and while we are yet a great way off, He runs to us (Luke 15:20).
Many people misuse this scripture to get anything out of it they want.

Just because the prodigal came back doesn't allow us to use eisegesis & read into it everyone comes back..... because they don't.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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Please provide definitions of sinning wilfully versus sinning non-wilfully and how one can distinguish between them.
Furthermore please provide details of which camp you are in.
Do you really claim to be sinless...
I think you may have a problem...
If I am tempted in the moment, and fail the test- that is not sinning willfully- I didn't seek sin out. But if I premeditate sin and carry it out- that is sinning willfully. For example, if I bought alcohol to get drunk this upcoming weekend, or bathe naked on the roof like Bathsheba did in order to entice David into having an affair. The difference is providing for sin, or making future plans to sin.
 
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Sagart

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This has been addressed at least over 30x times and yet this is still being put forth.

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.

Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33.
Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.
A plea for honesty regarding the Epistle to the Hebrews!

Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)


Up until the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century, this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible, and the end of these saved persons who subsequently fall away from the Christian faith is eternal damnation in the fires of hell. This was also the doctrine of our earliest Baptist forefathers before some Baptists heard a brand new doctrine that had been recently conceived by some men in Europe, and spread this new doctrine among their Baptist brothers causing it to take over like a firestorm.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote his Epistle using the terminology and phraseology of the very early Church. Therefore, in order to accurately interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews, it is essential to have a solid background in the writings of the very early Church and the terminology and phraseology that they used.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the Peshitta, an ancient Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament, renders (when translated into English) the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. Therefore, the person spoken of has necessarily been born again but has fallen away from the Christian faith. And the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Verses 7 & 8 are an analogy used to support the author’s statements. Just as the ground which once brought forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled received a blessing from God, and the ground that now yields thorns and thistles is worthless and ends up being burned, so the Christian which once brought forth good fruit unto God but who now brings forth bad fruit ends up being burned in the fires of hell.

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.


Because of the severity of the Greek word translated “impossible” in verse 6, some very early Christians rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews as not being a part of the New Testament Canon, but its place in the New Testament Canon is now well established and its warning is stern.


Hebrews 10:26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27. but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?


The author of this epistle includes himself in verse 26, therefore it in an incontrovertible fact that true, genuine, born again Christians are being spoken of in this passage. Furthermore, people who are merely claiming to be saved have not been sanctified by the blood of Christ Jesus. Therefore we know for a fact from Scripture itself that a man who has been both saved and sanctified has the potential of,

Trampling under foot the Son of God
Regarding as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified
Insulting the Spirit of grace.

And for doing these sinful things, the reward is NOT salvation; the reward is the VENGEANCE of God.

30. For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”
31. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)
 
Dec 3, 2016
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Just because the prodigal came back doesn't allow us to use eisegesis & read into it everyone comes back..... because they don't.
This is true... they need to notice that the father in this parable said his son was dead... it was only when the boy came home was he considered alive again.

OSAS people like to get others to not look at this part cause... they gots an agenda that does not come from the Lord.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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A plea for honesty regarding the Epistle to the Hebrews!
The entire book of Hebrews was written to remind Jewish believers in Christ to not return to the law and if they did they would no longer be saved.

OSAS people like to get others to not look at this part cause... they gots an agenda that does not come from the Lord.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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A response to " A plea for honesty regarding the Epistle to the Hebrews!" which is based on the truth that Jesus does not lie to us.

There is a whole thread on Hebrews 6:4-6 that talks about the book of Hebrews from different viewpoints. Both those that believe Christians lose salvation and those that believe Jesus when He said "The Holy Spirit will be in you forever".

Is Jesus a liar? That is a question we have to answer to ourselves. Me, I believe Him and I encourage others to believe in Him as well.

Here is the link for anyone wanting to look into this.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems.html

The book of Hebrews was written to Jews showing the better covenant, the better High Priest, the better sacrifice of Christ. It was written before the destruction of the temple in 70AD and thus that ended the temple animal sacrifices for good.

Here is a article that talks about the date of Hebrews.

https://bible.org/seriespage/book-hebrews-introduction-part-1

In the meetings there would have been both believing Jews in the Messiah and others that did not. The same as there are in churches today. Jesus said there would be tares in with the wheat.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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A response to " A plea for honesty regarding the Epistle to the Hebrews!" which is based on the truth that Jesus does not lie to us.

There is a whole thread on Hebrews 6:4-6 that talks about the book of Hebrews from different viewpoints. Both those that believe Christians lose salvation and those that believe Jesus when He said "The Holy Spirit will be in you forever".

Is Jesus a liar? That is a question we have to answer to ourselves. Me, I believe Him and I encourage others to believe in Him as well.

Here is the link for anyone wanting to look into this.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems.html

The book of Hebrews was written to Jews showing the better covenant, the better High Priest, the better sacrifice of Christ. It was written before the destruction of the temple in 70AD and thus that ended the temple animal sacrifices for good.

Here is a article that talks about the date of Hebrews.

https://bible.org/seriespage/book-hebrews-introduction-part-1

In the meetings there would have been both believing Jews in the Messiah and others that did not. The same as there are in churches today. Jesus said there would be tares in with the wheat.
I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lost or lose salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is IF (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away . . " The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew them again to repentance. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption.

once enlightened - The word enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. Figuratively, photizo means to give guidance or understanding, to make clear or to cause something to be known by revealing clearly. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man"; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light.

partakers of the Holy Spirit - Partakers describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Business partner, companion. Participating in. Accomplice in. Comrade. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the indwelling of believers. It is very plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Spirit (and his pre-salvation ministry - convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. The translation "shared" implies something done in company with others and before salvation all believers shared in the convicting ministry of the Spirit Who drew them to salvation. Note also that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or "possessors of the Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance."

tasted the good word of God - They had tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of its character and quality, yet they still turned away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept the thing that is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).

fall away - I find it interesting that the term "fall away" or "stumble" was used by the Lord Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall FALL by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16)

Hebrews 6:7,8 - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this agricultural metaphor, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. When we recall the other metaphors in Scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and fruitfulness is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35), we already have an indication that the author is speaking of people whose most trustworthy evidence of their spiritual condition (the fruit they bear) is negative, suggesting that the author is talking about people who are not genuine Christians. Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.

It is generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again. If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved," person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Is Jesus a liar? That is a question we have to answer to ourselves. Me, I believe Him and I encourage others to believe in Him as well.
Jesus isn't a liar..... but the ones that claim His teachings are OT & not for us today is the liar.
In the meetings there would have been both believing Jews in the Messiah and others that did not. The same as there are in churches today. Jesus said there would be tares in with the wheat.
Tares..... wheat look-a-likes with no spiritual fruit.

They like to talk the talk, but can't walk the walk..... so they say walking/fruit doesn't matter, cuz we're forever saved.:rolleyes:
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Many people misuse this scripture to get anything out of it they want.

Just because the prodigal came back doesn't allow us to use eisegesis & read into it everyone comes back..... because they don't.
Actually it is those who claim that not everyone comes back who use eisegesis & add to the parable that not everyone comes back….
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Rockrz said:
This is true... they need to notice that the father in this parable said his son was dead... it was only when the boy came home was he considered alive again.

OSAS people like to get others to not look at this part cause... they gots an agenda that does not come from the Lord.
When the son was away from his father, was he still the child of the father?

Notice in Luke 15:18, the son says I will arise and go to my father[/b] …

Those who claim the born again one is no longer a child of the Father have "an agenda that does not come from the Lord".
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lost or lose salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is IF (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away . . " The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew them again to repentance. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption.

once enlightened - The word enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. Figuratively, photizo means to give guidance or understanding, to make clear or to cause something to be known by revealing clearly. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man"; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light.

partakers of the Holy Spirit - Partakers describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Business partner, companion. Participating in. Accomplice in. Comrade. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the indwelling of believers. It is very plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Spirit (and his pre-salvation ministry - convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. The translation "shared" implies something done in company with others and before salvation all believers shared in the convicting ministry of the Spirit Who drew them to salvation. Note also that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or "possessors of the Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance."

tasted the good word of God - They had tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of its character and quality, yet they still turned away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept the thing that is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).

fall away - I find it interesting that the term "fall away" or "stumble" was used by the Lord Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall FALL by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16)

Hebrews 6:7,8 - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this agricultural metaphor, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. When we recall the other metaphors in Scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and fruitfulness is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35), we already have an indication that the author is speaking of people whose most trustworthy evidence of their spiritual condition (the fruit they bear) is negative, suggesting that the author is talking about people who are not genuine Christians. Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.

It is generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again. If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved," person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue.
Well done! If we don't look at the book of Hebrews in the light of who is the author talking to - then we can get into a mess and distort the gospel of the grace of God.

The book of Hebrews addresses Israel in the transitional generation of both Jewish believers and Jewish unbelievers alike before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

That is why the author spends so much time talking about Jewish "things" from the law and comparing them to Christ Himself and all that He has done. A Gentile knows nothing of the law of Moses and this book was not directly addressed to them.

Audience relevance is paramount in determining the interpretation of a passage.

Reject the one time sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ which is willfully sinning talked about in Hebrews and there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
 
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When the son was away from his father, was he still the child of the father?
The issue is not whether he is still a child of the father... but whether the child is still alive unto the father or not.

Once he left the father, he was the same as being dead to the father because he broke relations with the father and refused to come back and be in a relationship with the father... even though the father still loved him and longed for him to come home again.

In the parable... the father did not change, the boy did.

Ya gotta keep up and quit that OSAS agenda that satan is trying to get people to buy into which is nothing new... it's just warmed over baptist teaching with better marketing these days.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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The issue is not whether he is still a child of the father...
Yes, that is the issue, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. When a person is born again, he/she becomes a child of God by birth. 1 Peter 1:23 says we are born again of incorruptible seed. That incorruptible seed is eternal life. Eternal is eternal.



Rockrz said:
but whether the child is still alive unto the father or not.
Well, then, let's look at the actions of the father …

Luke 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

The father saw his son, when he was yet a great way off. Please note the father was not sitting in sackcloth and ashes mourning the death of his son. The father was waiting for his son to return.