Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 11:

30 For as ye (gentiles) in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (Jews) unbelief:

31 Even so have these (Jews) also now not believed, that through your (gentiles) mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all (Jews and gentiles) in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all (Jews and gentiles).

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


The whole point in Roman 11 is to reveal that God hath concluded them all (both Jew and gentile) in unbelief.

And the whole point in revealing that all are in unbelief?

that he might have mercy upon all.


Do not read Romans 11 without keeping God's mercy in mind. For all are deserving of the judgment which will result in some being consigned to the lake of fire.

And if not for the mercy of God, all would find themselves in that very same lake.

No works on our part can ever make us worthy of everlasting life.

In God's mercy, we will eat of the tree of life in new heaven / new earth.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 11

[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[SUP][f][/SUP] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Another example of those in the faith (v19) having the possibility of falling away (v22) if you once again fall into unbelief, as the Israelites fell into (v20)

You keep claiming that those "in the faith (v19)" were the ones who fell away.

God's Word is clear that it was only those who did not believe which were broken off. Notice God does not say they "fell away". Those who were broken off were Israelites who did not believe.

Those who you refer to as "in the faith" are referred to as "a remnant" by God:

Romans 11:

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Back when Elijah complained to God that he was the only one left and others were seeking to take his life, God told him about the 7,000 men who had not worshipped baal.

Then in verse 5, God reveals even at this present time also there is a remnant.

In Elijah's day there was a remnant;
In Paul's day there was a remnant;
In our day there is a remnant.


In Rom 11:19, was it the remnant that was broken off? or was it those who did not believe? (hint: the answer is in vs 20)

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Timothy 4

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,


Just repeating what the Spirit says mailmandan.

Let's see what the "Spirit" is really saying "in context".

We have defined "apostasy" from our own understanding of that term. It simply means in the Greek "to depart" or "to separate from."

So, we have heard sermons from our church upbringing where "apostasy" was used and put in some scriptures here and there and we come up with a doctrine. Now the "meaning" of apostasy has taken on a whole life within itself.

It is used 16 times in scripture and all the meanings are the same "To separate or to depart" "stand separate from" - "withdraw from".

Here is an example of it being used.

1 Timothy 6:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


The truth is all of us in some form are standing apart from some things that Christ has done for us. We can know that we have the peace of Christ but we withdraw or depart from believing in that because our mind cannot get around the natural circumstances.

The famous scripture that is used from those believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".

They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else does ).

Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai - this is the word - apostasy ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort when we are to believe on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection for all things.

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So we see that the word "apostasy" is not what some try to make it into. There are many warnings in scripture about living your own ways and thoughts contrary to God such as depending on the flesh for life instead of walking by the spirit and they should be heeded if you want His life to be manifested in us.

Let's build believers up in Christ and feed them the proper nutrients of proclaiming the love and grace of our Lord for them and these will give them the proper foundation in Christ and then the warnings will be applied in context of Christ's finished work on the cross and not on a works-based, fear-based belief system which only nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to live in this earth.

 

[Grace777x70]

The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

The "fallen away" which is the Greek word [FONT="Gentium" !important]aphistēmi [/FONT]really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from

People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection.

 

[Chris1975]

You keep claiming that those "in the faith (v19)" were the ones who fell away.

God's Word is clear that it was only those who did not believe which were broken off. Notice God does not say they "fell away". Those who were broken off were Israelites who did not believe.

Those who you refer to as "in the faith" are referred to as "a remnant" by God:

Romans 11:

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Back when Elijah complained to God that he was the only one left and others were seeking to take his life, God told him about the 7,000 men who had not worshipped baal.

Then in verse 5, God reveals even at this present time also there is a remnant.

In Elijah's day there was a remnant;
In Paul's day there was a remnant;
In our day there is a remnant.


In Rom 11:19, was it the remnant that was broken off? or was it those who did not believe? (hint: the answer is in vs 20)

Typo.

Not v19 but v20 were in the faith.

See again: [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

and v22 if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

By implication "You" stand by faith and also the warning that "you" can be cut off if you do not continue in the faith.

Do you see it now?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Typo.

Not v19 but v20 were in the faith.

You are not answering the question, Chris1975. You are glossing over what you do not want to acknowledge.

In Rom 11:19, was it the remnant that was broken off? Or was it those who did not believe?

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off ...
Is this speaking of the remnant? (no)
or those who did not believe? (yes)

See again: [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

and v22 if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

By implication "You" stand by faith and also the warning that "you" can be cut off if you do not continue in the faith.

Do you see it now?

Keep reading: Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Oops ... there goes your theory that a person can fall away to the point of never receiving mercy from God.

 

[DJ2]

No, Telling people it is possible is dangerous.

It takes the focus off God, and puts the focus of salvation on self. It makes you responsible for doing whatever has to be done to keep from losing your salvation.

This has a few dangerous problems...

1. A person will realize he can not live up to Gods standard (no one can) and he will give up, why bother? Then leave the church and return to his sin, or his religion.

2. A person will have to water down Gods standard, to get to the point they are walking above Gods standard. so they will not be judged (be deceived of their own sin and sinfulness)

3. The person will try to hide his sin, and be forced to try to cover it up, And not confess it to people so he can find healing, because he is afraid he will be judged.

4. In the long run, They end up being judgemental holier than though people. who judge others to make themselves feel better, Unable to hide their sin anymore, and walk away, Or self righteous people who have gained a following, and thinks he is doing Gods will.

Only in full grace and unconditional salvation can you see true sinners come together of all ages and walks, and become united and a family, because it is not about performance, it is about God, and the focus of growing together in Christ and fulfilling the great commission.

Why is it dangerous? What could go wrong?

Even if the saved believer:

1. Realizes he can not live up to God's standard and gives up. Is he still not saved?

2. Waters down Gods' standard. Is he still not saved?

3. Tries to hide his sin. Is he still not saved?

4. Become judgemental. Is he still not saved?

If "full grace and unconditional salvation" is upon the saved believer where is the danger?

You can not take Phil 1:6 as definite and still see danger around every corner. If you are destined to be saved, relax.

 

[Chris1975]

You are not answering the question, Chris1975. You are glossing over what you do not want to acknowledge.

In Rom 11:19, was it the remnant that was broken off? Or was it those who did not believe?

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off ...
Is this speaking of the remnant? (no)
or those who did not believe? (yes)





Keep reading: Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Oops ... there goes your theory that a person can fall away to the point of never receiving mercy from God.

Your answer is in verse 25:

Romans 11
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Millions of Jews have been blinded from Christ until now because of their rejection of the Messiah. By God's grace, a remnant will be saved. Yes we have Messianic Jews who have been saved over the last two millenia, but by and large the majority of the Jews since then have been cut off.

v[SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their <Israel> being cast away is the reconciling of the world <Gentiles>, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Now, the Gentiles, being a wild olive tree were grafted in (let it be clear, this is the Gentile church, and not Gentiles in totality) - then do not boast:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Therefore what is clear is that the root support both the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles. This should be obvious. For those who do not believe, AND those who do not bear fruit, are cut off.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

What is God saying here? He is saying because of Israel unbelief, a whole generation fell in the wilderness. They were not saved if they didn't believe. They did not enter His rest (see Hebrews 3v17-19 and Hebrews 4v1-2). And God did not spare these natural branches because of unbelief, as well as disobedience Hebrews 3v18. They were not unconditionally saved.

Therefore, God in Romans 11v22 says [SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[SUP][f][/SUP] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Therefore, the above context being understood, it then becomes transparent what verse 23 means:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they <Israel> also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

This means that should Israel, today, turn to God, then they will be grafted in. As an example, those Jews living today (13th June 2017) will be grafted in should they receive Christ. Its like the first time they are believing. It doesn't mean that all of the Jews in the last 2000 years who have died in unbelief are grafted in. NO. It means that God remembers his promise to Abraham that through Isaac his promise will be fulfilled to those of the circumcision. And yes, a remnant will be saved.

So you see - the bible is consistent. The above passages mean that the Gentiles, who are standing in the faith (verse 20), should fear (verse 21), for if God did not spare the natural branches (Israel) because of unbelief (verse 21 and verse 22), then the possibility of those in the Gentile church also being cut off is a risk (verse 22). They were set for us as an example.

 

[Chris1975]

Hebrews 3
[SUP]6 [/SUP]but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.[SUP][a]
[/SUP][SUP][SUP]12 [/SUP]Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; [SUP]13 [/SUP]but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
[/SUP]
Yes, it's exactly as the bible says.

 

[Chris1975]

Hebrews 2
2 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, [SUP]3 [/SUP]how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,

Yes, exactly as the bible says.

 

[Chris1975]

Hebrews 4
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,


[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Your walk of faith is a journey. You haven't yet entered that Rest. If you had you would have ceased from your works as God did from His. Therefore you are to:
-take heed
-be diligent
-hold fast your confession

Disobedience is a sign of unbelief. The warnings for Israel of old are our warnings for today.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

But God is there to help us..

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Grace777x70]

By all means come and receive Christ and don't be trying to live by the Mosaic system. People do this all the time - by living from their own works-based righteousness instead of the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.


The book of Hebrews is contrasting the 2 systems - one belief in following the Old Covenant. - the other is Christ Himself - believing in His work. If we neglect His salvation - there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Hebrews 10:26 This is called willful sinning - refusing to believe in Christ's sacrifice for all sins.

The book of Hebrews is showing Jewish people that have a background in Abraham and Moses how Christ fits in. It is showing that unbelief will cut them off from the salvation that is in Christ.

The book of Hebrews is contrasting the high priesthood of Aaron to Jesus as our high priest. The sacrificial systems..etc. It is an attempt to get Jewish people to believe in Christ as the Messiah and to not neglect this salvation that is in Him only and not rely on the old Mosaic system of the Old Covenant.

Neglect Christ and drift away from what you have heard about Christ and you will be like those that didn't enter into the promised land - because of their unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6-11 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS." ( choose Christ and not the Old Covenant way - do not neglect this and drift away from what you have heard about the Christ )

[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. ( unbelief in Greek )

Do not let those that say our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell disturb you and your walk with the Lord. It is a perversion of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and a deadly deception from the enemy.

Our loving Father no more throws in hell His beloved children that Jesus died and spilled His blood for then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

Learn to walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh so that we can walk free and experience God's inheritance for us while we are in this earth. Then others will see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

Learn how much the Lord loves you and that love will manifest in and through us to a hurt and dying world.

 

[valiant]

Your answer is in verse 25:

Romans 11
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Millions of Jews have been blinded from Christ until now because of their rejection of the Messiah. By God's grace, a remnant will be saved. Yes we have Messianic Jews who have been saved over the last two millenia, but by and large the majority of the Jews since then have been cut off.

v[SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their <Israel> being cast away is the reconciling of the world <Gentiles>, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Now, the Gentiles, being a wild olive tree were grafted in (let it be clear, this is the Gentile church, and not Gentiles in totality) - then do not boast:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Therefore what is clear is that the root support both the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles. This should be obvious. For those who do not believe, AND those who do not bear fruit, are cut off.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

What is God saying here? He is saying because of Israel unbelief, a whole generation fell in the wilderness. They were not saved if they didn't believe. They did not enter His rest (see Hebrews 3v17-19 and Hebrews 4v1-2). And God did not spare these natural branches because of unbelief, as well as disobedience Hebrews 3v18. They were not unconditionally saved.

Therefore, God in Romans 11v22 says [SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[SUP][f][/SUP] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Therefore, the above context being understood, it then becomes transparent what verse 23 means:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they <Israel> also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

This means that should Israel, today, turn to God, then they will be grafted in. As an example, those Jews living today (13th June 2017) will be grafted in should they receive Christ. Its like the first time they are believing. It doesn't mean that all of the Jews in the last 2000 years who have died in unbelief are grafted in. NO. It means that God remembers his promise to Abraham that through Isaac his promise will be fulfilled to those of the circumcision. And yes, a remnant will be saved.

So you see - the bible is consistent. The above passages mean that the Gentiles, who are standing in the faith (verse 20), should fear (verse 21), for if God did not spare the natural branches (Israel) because of unbelief (verse 21 and verse 22), then the possibility of those in the Gentile church also being cut off is a risk (verse 22). They were set for us as an example.

It is quite clear he is talking about the Gentile church as a whole and not individuals within it. If they as a whole continue to believe they will remain safe in the olive tree of Israel'. If they become unbelievers they will be cast off. In other words unbelieving Gentiles are in the same position to unbelieving Jews.

 

[Chris1975]

It is quite clear he is talking about the Gentile church as a whole and not individuals within it. If they as a whole continue to believe they will remain safe in the olive tree of Israel'. If they become unbelievers they will be cast off. In other words unbelieving Gentiles are in the same position to unbelieving Jews.

No, an unbeliever is not grafted in. Try again.

 

[mailmandan]

It is quite clear he is talking about the Gentile church as a whole and not individuals within it. If they as a whole continue to believe they will remain safe in the olive tree of Israel'. If they become unbelievers they will be cast off. In other words unbelieving Gentiles are in the same position to unbelieving Jews.

I find it interesting that the Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not get arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God -- but this doesn't speak of losing salvation.

 

[Chris1975]

Hebrews 5
[SUP]8 [/SUP]though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Salvation is ONLY to those who obey Him.

Just as Jesus obeyed the Father (v8) through His sufferings, so too are you required to obey God.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is quite clear he is talking about the Gentile church as a whole and not individuals within it. If they as a whole continue to believe they will remain safe in the olive tree of Israel'. If they become unbelievers they will be cast off. In other words unbelieving Gentiles are in the same position to unbelieving Jews.

Amen....some people constantly take scriptures out of context.

Whenever we read the scriptures through an Old Covenant mindset and "lens" - we always get the gospel of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ wrong. We try to create and maintain our own salvation by what we do or don't do which is how the Old Covenant was based on.

The New Covenant is entirely different despite what works-based-righteousness people try to pervert and distort the gospel to make it like the Mosaic one.

 

[Chris1975]

I find it interesting that the Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not get arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God -- but this doesn't speak of losing salvation.

Any branch not abiding in the vine and is cut off, withers and is thrown in the fire. Try again.

 

[Grace777x70]

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living. This is obeying Christ for the unbeliever when He hears the gospel message.

Notice here that even the law-keeping good moral living priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.


Pagans/Gentiles also need to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


All people of all types are called to be "obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

Those who do not obey the gospel or Christ are those that reject Christ's sacrifice for sins. They are unbelievers. God doesn't send His children to hell despite what works-based/ works-righteousness belief systems try to tell us.

Repent and believe in the gospel - just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 This is true obeying the Lord Jesus - and in that believing in what he ahs done - this leads to a renewed mind and thinking which leads to right living.

A believer that is truly born of the Spirit of God and sealed in Him will no more be in hell then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

It is an anti-Christ belief system and it is anti-the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

Any branch not abiding in the vine and is cut off, withers and is thrown in the fire. Try again.

You are jumping from Romans 11 to John 15. The branch is not abiding because there is a cosmic connection with the vine and not a spiritual and vital connection. The branches that bear fruit (John 15:2) and remain are believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self attached branches that bear no fruit (John 15:2) and are cut off are not believers (like Judas Iscariot) and those who were offended by the words of Jesus and walked with Him no more - John 6:60-64. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10,11). Try again.