Falling away

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#21
ALL SIN separates from God,no big or little sins. It is our act of repentance upon awareness we have sinned that keeps us before God and under His protection.
Ep.2:8/9 For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH;and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: Not of works,lest any man should boast.

Toooooo many people only have their own self righteousness, not having put on HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!
You are exactly right. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us when we are quickened together with Christ in the new birth (Eph 2:5). Most of the people on this forum are trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#22
Very - Very - IMPORTANT!!!!!!! I repeat!!!!!!!

Those who have departed from the faith

To depart from the faith means that a person had once been in the faith. Brother Swaggart says when we speak of faith at the ministry, we're speaking of faith in the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ. When people leave the Cross and turn to other things, which millions are now doing, the Scripture says of them: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1).

Needless to say, such individuals, as with the lukewarm and as with those who have a form of godliness, are labeled by the Lord as unsaved, despite their claims, and will not go in the rapture nor enter the strait gate and narrow way that leads unto life.

JSM
 

IFOLLOWHIM

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2019
2,217
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#23
When will we ever learn,we are bought with a price that NONE of us could pay! Yet Jesus did it in love willingly at the Fathers behest! I am so thankful He did,and that LOVE held Him to the cross!
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#24
All works must be produced and birth by the Holy Spirit or it is dead works. The "Golden Bell and the Pomegranate" must bounce against each other or it is tingling cymbal and sounding brass. The Golden Bell = The Gift of the Spirit, and the Pomegranate = The Fruit of the Spirit (Exodus 28:34). We need both to be in operation.

We need "The Golden Bells (The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the spirit) and the Pomegranates (The Fruit of the Holy Spirit that gives us victory over sin) Exodus 28:34 NIV. If you have two bells and no fruit bouncing against each other you have 1 Corinthians 13:1, clanging cymbals.

One without the other produces an inconsistency and it is a problem. To say you don't need both is doubt and unbelief which is never acceptable to God. The Bell presents the power and the Pomegranate presents relationship. You must have the development of both. These are two different works of the Holy Spirit; the fruits and the gifts. The Golden Bells and the Pomegranate is a TYPE.

Faith placed exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit. This is the only Faith God will recognize. Anything and everything that is not of the Spirit is "dead faith." Lifeless Faith is profitless (rotten fruit). James 2:14-18

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.


JSM
 

IFOLLOWHIM

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2019
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#25
I FOLLOW NO MAN! I FOLLOW HIM,and Him only but I love the Word of God and receive it gladly!
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#26
I FOLLOW NO MAN! I FOLLOW HIM,and Him only but I love the Word of God and receive it gladly!
Amen.

Jer. 17:5-10

5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.


6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.


7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.


8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.


9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
 

IFOLLOWHIM

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2019
2,217
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#27
Amen.

Jer. 17:5-10

5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.


6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.


7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.


8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.


9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.




Amen to our infallible God!
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,103
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#28
The truth is none of the Old Testament Saints including His Disciples were born-again. They were saved, but not born-again because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins (Hebrews 10:4). This is why they could not go to Heaven, but Paradise when they died. During that time the Holy Spirit could only dwell with them (some) and not in them because the Lamp of God who takes away the sin of the world had not went to the Cross (John 14:17). After the Lamp of God atone for all sin, this allowed the Holy Spirit to live in in the Believer because now they are born-again.
The people of God were born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the same as the new testament people. Isaiah 63:11 - Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put HIS HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN HIM? The Holy Spirit dwelt in Moses, who was born again, the same way that all of God's children are born.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#29
The people of God were born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the same as the new testament people. Isaiah 63:11 - Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put HIS HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN HIM? The Holy Spirit dwelt in Moses, who was born again, the same way that all of God's children are born.
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17

Jesus clearly tells His Disciples that the Holy Spirit dwells with them, and soon will be in them. They were saved, but not born-again. Only in the New Covenant can you be born-again. Praise God for the Lamp of God who love us and gave Himself for us (Gal. 2:20-21).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#30
This is why they could not go to Heaven, but Paradise when they died.
Paradise is in Heaven, so you can use both terms interchangeably. The OT saints went to Sheol/Hades but were separated from the unrighteous dead by a great chasm or gulf. They had to wait there until the resurrection of Christ.

That is when they were all taken to Heaven (to the New Jerusalem, where Paradise is actually located) and they were perfected in their souls and spirits. That would be akin to the New Birth, since they all received the gift of the Holy Spirit (perhaps on the day of Pentecost just like the Jewish believers on that day).

So all the OT saints are indeed in Heaven now (Hebrews 12:22-24). On the day of the Resurrection/Rapture, Christ will bring their perfected souls and spirits with Him, and join them to perfected, glorified, immortal bodies. They will then return to Heaven with the raptured saints (who are alive at that time).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,564
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#31
Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?
We are seeing the increase of apostasy (Gk apostasia = the falling away) throughout Christendom, and because the true Gospel and true Bible doctrine are being preached less and less, it is affecting all people, Christians as well as unbelievers. In fact, we are in the midst of the Great Apostasy, which must happen before the Antichrist is revealed. So this is a critical time for the true Gospel to go out into all the world. At the same time many souls are being saved in the Third World, and even Muslims are being saved through direct encounters with Christ.
 

IFOLLOWHIM

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2019
2,217
1,038
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#32
Wow! Thank you all! Some of you guys are really deep in your biblical thinking,I may learn something yet!
I'm blessed to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified,buried ,resurrected and ascended!
He is the way, the only way!
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#33
Paradise is in Heaven, so you can use both terms interchangeably. The OT saints went to Sheol/Hades but were separated from the unrighteous dead by a great chasm or gulf. They had to wait there until the resurrection of Christ.
That is when they were all taken to Heaven (to the New Jerusalem, where Paradise is actually located) and they were perfected in their souls and spirits. That would be akin to the New Birth, since they all received the gift of the Holy Spirit (perhaps on the day of Pentecost just like the Jewish believers on that day).

So all the OT saints are indeed in Heaven now (Hebrews 12:22-24). On the day of the Resurrection/Rapture, Christ will bring their perfected souls and spirits with Him, and join them to perfected, glorified, immortal bodies. They will then return to Heaven with the raptured saints (who are alive at that time).

“42 And He said unto Jesus (speaks of recognition as to Who Jesus really was), Lord, remember me when You come into Your Kingdom (presents the simple prayer of Repentance; it is one of the most remarkable conversions recorded in the Bible).


43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with Me in Paradise (a statement of fact, and not a question, as some claim; however, his stay in Paradise would be very short; some three days later, he would accompany Christ to Heaven, along with every other person in Paradise, which included all the Old Testament Saints).” Luke 23:42-43 KJV

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870
This material may be protected by copyright.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,564
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#34
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with Me in Paradise
The comma should have been placed after "today" for the correct meaning.

καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμήν λέγω σοι σήμερον, μετ' ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ

Literal rendering of the Greek : And said to him Jesus, Truly I say to you today, with me you will be in Paradise.

Jesus could not possibly have gone to Paradise (in Heaven) the day He died. The Bible is very clear that He (His soul and spirit) went to Sheol/Hades immediately, and remained there for three days and three nights. Then He was resurrected and took all the OT saints (including the thief on the cross) to Paradise.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,970
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#35
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:3 )
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#36
I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?
Pray for your friends as I do. Just because they appear to have lost faith in Jesus does not mean Jesus has left them. God's is an irrevocable grace. When God's grace saves, man cannot undo what Salvation accomplished in that former sinner.

Remember the parables in the Book of Luke chapter 11. The parable of the prodigal son, the lost coin, and the lost sheep.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,103
356
83
#37
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17

Jesus clearly tells His Disciples that the Holy Spirit dwells with them, and soon will be in them. They were saved, but not born-again. Only in the New Covenant can you be born-again. Praise God for the Lamp of God who love us and gave Himself for us (Gal. 2:20-21).
All scripture must harmonize before you are able to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. Are you just going to ignore Isaiah 63:11?
 

IFOLLOWHIM

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2019
2,217
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#38
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:3 )
Amen!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#39
The comma should have been placed after "today" for the correct meaning.

καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμήν λέγω σοι σήμερον, μετ' ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ

Literal rendering of the Greek : And said to him Jesus, Truly I say to you today, with me you will be in Paradise.

Jesus could not possibly have gone to Paradise (in Heaven) the day He died. The Bible is very clear that He (His soul and spirit) went to Sheol/Hades immediately, and remained there for three days and three nights. Then He was resurrected and took all the OT saints (including the thief on the cross) to Paradise.
The ancient Greeks did not have sentence punctuation at that time.