False Prophets and the accursed Gospel

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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,710
3,837
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#41
I'm not sure where you fabricated this idea about what I believe. I never mentioned, at any point, what I believe. As a user on this site of 7 years I've seen the bible discussion forums spinning on the exact same topics over and over. This is one of them. And in that 7 years I've never seen EITHER SIDE budge on what they believe.
And That was my point, regardless of what I believe.
Oh, and when I was a Christian I was OSAS. Perhaps it may behoove you to read things rather than fabricate things from a defensive posture.
This is simply not true. I am a living example. Before chastisement and revelation from the Lord I thought it possible to lose my Salvation. I now definitively believe I can not.

Part of that revelation came from several different members on this site that the Lord used..

I am now fully convinced that NOTHING can separate me from the Lord. Yet it is still uplifting and refreshing to see wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ continue to stand for the pure, unadulterated Gospel.

So I'm sorry Ugly, but you will have to reexamine your premise.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,328
5,917
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#42
Whatever it is that compels us to follow that God ordained destiny of hearing his voice call us by name to his only begotten son, when we do we are promised eternal life, eternal salvation, and told that no one can ever take us from the security of Christ.
We're also told that those who know this do not make a habit of sinning purposefully. And that those who do do that not only do not know Christ but he does not know them.
That is so true Lillywolf. Those than are constantly sinning better have a look at their vows. Christ said by their fruits you shall know His people. It also says the soul that sins shall die.

Gal. 5:18-21 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." :cool:
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#44
Anyone trying to be saved by the law has not believed the Gospel plain and simple.
Literally should be the "end" of the matter, it being the very last thing Christ said in ALL of scripture, right? You'd think?
Those sins are to unbelievers. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin and here's why and what it is.
John 16:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Jesus paid for the sins of the world so there is no longer any sins to pay for the unforgivable sin is unbelief. "He (Holy Spirit) will reprove the world of sin... Of sin bc they believe not on me". If you are trying to keep the law to be saved you have not believed the Gospel plain and simple. If you add anything to the gospel or take away you have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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#45
Repentance from dead works and of faith toward Christ. repentance means to change your mind God repented 39 times.
That comment flies in the face of one of the attributes of God, immutable. If you read those accounts you will find that God didn't change his mind. In the back and forth between God and the person God knowing the facts allowed the discussion to proceed agreeing to the request of the person. In the end God did as originally decreed. A discussion like that concerned the destruction of Sodom. The person requesting God not destroy it if there were a decreasing number of believers there. God knew there was only the family of the one he was discussing it with. Those he allowed to leave before it was destroyed.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#46
Anyone trying to be saved by the law has not believed the Gospel plain and simple.

Those sins are to unbelievers. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin and here's why and what it is.
John 16:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Jesus paid for the sins of the world so there is no longer any sins to pay for the unforgivable sin is unbelief. "He (Holy Spirit) will reprove the world of sin... Of sin bc they believe not on me". If you are trying to keep the law to be saved you have not believed the Gospel plain and simple. If you add anything to the gospel or take away you have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
I notice you keep using the KJV. It is now a flawed translation, that is because it was translated in 1611. That is 400 years old and language changes over time. An example is the commandment "Thou shalt not kill". The NIV says "You shall not murder" and the AMPC says "You shall not commit murder." In 1611 kill meant deliberate murder. In modern times you can kill someone in an automobile accident. That is not murder but is kill. Big difference.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#47
I fully agree with eternal security.....and salvation is an immediate possession<---a present continuing result from a past completed action!
That is one of the Greek verb tenses that doesn't translate well. I looked up Greek verbs.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
83
#48

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
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#49
No thats not what it means. God says i NEVER knew you meaning they never believed the true gospel these were people relying on their mighty works and didnt do the will of the father which is to believe on the one he sent. They knew about Jesus and the cross probably even said they believed but mixed grace and works for salvation which is unbelief. Like saying I trust Jesus alone his grace is enough but i still have to be good as well to go to heaven see the contradiction? They are called workers of iniquity bc they do not have God's imputed righteousness and are workers of iniquity like all unsaved people like all flesh. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God you need to be born again
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#50
I notice you keep using the KJV. It is now a flawed translation, that is because it was translated in 1611. That is 400 years old and language changes over time. An example is the commandment "Thou shalt not kill". The NIV says "You shall not murder" and the AMPC says "You shall not commit murder." In 1611 kill meant deliberate murder. In modern times you can kill someone in an automobile accident. That is not murder but is kill. Big difference.
No wonder youre so confused get a KJV
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#51
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Wasnt that to Hebrews commenting on a pillar that fell on some who pilate mixed there blood? Ye think that they were greater sinners?... (paraphrasing) he was talking about physical death not all all thing Jesus said was about heaven or hell. Look at the woman caught in adultery. She was told by Jesus to go and sin no more lest something worst happen to her... yeah like next time them might stone her for real. If youre counting on repenting of sin ie keeping the law you have not believed the Gospel
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#52
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Wasnt that to Hebrews commenting on a pillar that fell on some who pilate mixed there blood? Ye think that they were greater sinners?... (paraphrasing) he was talking about physical death not all all thing Jesus said was about heaven or hell. Look at the woman caught in adultery. She was told by Jesus to go and sin no more lest something worst happen to her... yeah like next time them might stone her for real. If youre counting on repenting of sin ie keeping the law you have not believed the Gospel. And to be clear once you believe the gospel you have repented but thats the problem you only see the flesh Jesus said my word are spirit so while you go along judging every action of the flesh you're neglecting the weighty matters like mercy, the fact Jesus died for your sins and not just yours but the sins f the world. The law brings death no one has ever been justified by the law so why tell people they have to keep it to be saved? I believe Jesus died for my sins was buried and rose again according to scripture, I believe that alone and I KNOW iam eternal secure and my life is hidden in Christ, thats why I aint scared most unsaved people are on cloud 9 when their living the "good life" then scared when they sin but i know God never leaves nor forsakes us. Dont frustrate the grace of God (free gift not of works lest any man should boast) by adding works all you have is works repent (change your mind) and believe the gospel.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
#53
="JustFaith, post: 3705745, member: 274038"]Wasnt that to Hebrews commenting on a pillar that fell on some who pilate mixed there blood? Ye think that they were greater sinners?... (paraphrasing) he was talking about physical death not all all thing Jesus said was about heaven or hell. Look at the woman caught in adultery. She was told by Jesus to go and sin no more lest something worst happen to her... yeah like next time them might stone her for real.
If youre counting on repenting of sin ie keeping the law you have not believed the Gospel. And to be clear once you believe the gospel you have repented but thats the problem you only see the flesh Jesus said my word are spirit so while you go along judging every action of the flesh you're neglecting the weighty matters like mercy, the fact Jesus died for your sins and not just yours but the sins f the world. The law brings death no one has ever been justified by the law so why tell people they have to keep it to be saved? I believe Jesus died for my sins was buried and rose again according to scripture, I believe that alone and I KNOW iam eternal secure and my life is hidden in Christ, thats why I aint scared most unsaved people are on cloud 9 when their living the "good life" then scared when they sin but i know God never leaves nor forsakes us. Dont frustrate the grace of God (free gift not of works lest any man should boast) by adding works all you have is works repent (change your mind) and believe the gospel.
I believe we should not just listen to the Messiah, but we should also do as the Messiah instructs as well.

Also, the Messiah was justified by the Law. The only reason He qualified to become my High Priest is because He was faithful unto death. Had He listened to the serpent as did Eve and the Mainstream Preachers of His time, and rejected His Fathers Commandment, we would have no sacrifice for sin and the serpent would have won. But HE put my life before His.

I don't want to make HIS Sacrifice in VAIN, so I will strive with all my heart and all my soul to Honor Him, not with just my lips as is the custom of religious man, but with my whole mind a body as well. As Paul instructs.


Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Now I know the serpent will work to convince me that I am already saved, already immortal, and therefore don't NEED God's instructions anymore. I know it will work to convince me that God's instructions are against me, a burden, created to keep me in prison and blind, and the only way I can be Holy and "Free" is to reject His Instructions and follow the religious traditions of man.

The Word which became Flesh has shown me the deception from the very beginning so I can "Take Heed" I am not deceived by it.

I am forever grateful for all the things He has done for me.

Glory be to the Word which became Flesh.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#54
The KJV says:
Titus 2:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
The KJV says:
It says "WE SHOULD" not MUST get a KJV your mixing works with Grace. The way we SHOULD live doesn't save anyone, it's only they blood of Christ alone. Sirs what must i do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.. Im not preaching a licence to sin that would make sin lawful, Im saying Grace abounds much more. Have you ever heard the song 'it's nothing but the blood?' well apparently people think its something more than what Jesus did bc they keep adding conditions for salvation. Its a big contradiction like saying grace is a free gift (which is true) but it will cost you everything. I wish people would get a KJV
I would never ever agree to mixing works with grace ever!!!

I absolutely agree that it is "should"

I absolutely agree it a complete contradiction to say grace is free but it costs. :) It costs Jesus not us.

I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say.,..we are in complete agreement.:)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,494
6,224
113
53
#55
I believe we should not just listen to the Messiah, but we should also do as the Messiah instructs as well.

Also, the Messiah was justified by the Law. The only reason He qualified to become my High Priest is because He was faithful unto death. Had He listened to the serpent as did Eve and the Mainstream Preachers of His time, and rejected His Fathers Commandment, we would have no sacrifice for sin and the serpent would have won. But HE put my life before His.

I don't want to make HIS Sacrifice in VAIN, so I will strive with all my heart and all my soul to Honor Him, not with just my lips as is the custom of religious man, but with my whole mind a body as well. As Paul instructs.


Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Now I know the serpent will work to convince me that I am already saved, already immortal, and therefore don't NEED God's instructions anymore. I know it will work to convince me that God's instructions are against me, a burden, created to keep me in prison and blind, and the only way I can be Holy and "Free" is to reject His Instructions and follow the religious traditions of man.

The Word which became Flesh has shown me the deception from the very beginning so I can "Take Heed" I am not deceived by it.

I am forever grateful for all the things He has done for me.

Glory be to the Word which became Flesh.
Who is teaching reject the Messiah’s instructions or that after we have been saved through faith we no longer need God’s instructions because they are a burden created to keep us blind and in prison and instead we are to follow traditions of man? That sounds like the mother of all straw man arguments? :eek:
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,282
15,027
113
#56
That is one of the Greek verb tenses that doesn't translate well. I looked up Greek verbs.
Not only do the scriptures prove eternal security, but both Aorist and Perfect tense verbs applied to salvation make a loseable salvation impossible.....God inspired the N.T. in Koine Greek for a reason and then killed the language so it cannot be changed.....it means exactly what it means and you are right...the English translation, transliteration does harm to the inspired Greek!
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
#57
Anyone trying to be saved by the law has not believed the Gospel plain and simple.

Those sins are to unbelievers. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin and here's why and what it is.
John 16:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Jesus paid for the sins of the world so there is no longer any sins to pay for the unforgivable sin is unbelief. "He (Holy Spirit) will reprove the world of sin... Of sin bc they believe not on me". If you are trying to keep the law to be saved you have not believed the Gospel plain and simple. If you add anything to the gospel or take away you have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
^ Here you say the unforgivable sin is unbelief, saying Christ's last statement in Revelation 22 was to unbelievers.


https://christianchat.com/threads/false-prophets-and-the-accursed-gospel.179179/post-3704890

...Yet ^ here you told Ugly (I mean no disrespect to Ugly btw) that it doesn't matter whether he believes or not or how he currently lives (as long as he once believed; OSAS).

Can you see how this is inconsistent with your above statement?

Is a once former believer, who's now an unbeliever, somehow still a believer.........and is a professing believer, who's doing the last thing Christ said to do in all of scripture, actually an unbeliever for doing it?

----

With respect, this is the slippery slope those on my side of the argument preemptively fight against reaching. How is what you've said any different from saying someone like Ugly has a license to live in sin? It's the very conclusion you've reached without outright saying it.
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#58
^ Here you say the unforgivable sin is unbelief, saying Christ's last statement in Revelation 22 was to unbelievers.


https://christianchat.com/threads/false-prophets-and-the-accursed-gospel.179179/post-3704890

...Yet ^ here you told Ugly (I mean no disrespect to Ugly btw) that it doesn't matter whether he believes or not or how he currently lives (as long as he once believed; OSAS).

Can you see how this is inconsistent with your above statement?

Is a once former believer, who's now an unbeliever, somehow still a believer.........and is a professing believer, who's doing the last thing Christ said to do in all of scripture, actually an unbeliever for doing it?

----

With respect, this is the slippery slope those on my side of the argument preemptively fight against reaching. How is what you've said any different from saying someone like Ugly has a license to live in sin? It's the very conclusion you've reached without outright saying it.
That's bc he already believed the gospel. If you fall into unbelief after you're still sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. If you had a child that hated you, didnt want anything to do with you, moved halfway across the world to get away from you is that child still your child? When you're born of God how can you be unborn? You cannot. I dont know what else to say bc everyone is so carnal always looking at the flesh and not spiritually discerning what Iam saying. One born of God CANNOT sin bc his seed remainith in him (paraphrasing) That is the NEW CREATURE NOT THE FLESH. The children of the flesh are not the children of God. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The kingdom comes not with observation. Who is an anti christ but he that denies christ IS COME (KJV) not has come. He comes in his saints every time a saved person preached the gospel. Jeremiah says i cannot speak for iam only a child so whos speaking when you give the gospel? Christ in us. He's already here in his saints how else do you receive him if christ isnt come? Can a nation be born in a day? The Gospel was preached and many get saved taking Christ with them and spreading the good news expanding the kingdom daily. The gospel is all law based now thats the reason for all the denominations and isms.. to protect that gospel is what Paul fought for not a bunch of temporal life legalistic garbage that saves no one but in this present day the gospel seems lost. people call OSAS cheap grace (its actually free) and easily believing false doctrine well it seems that it isnt so easy for people to believe in "easy believism" bc OSAS is the narrow road
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#59
I would never ever agree to mixing works with grace ever!!!

I absolutely agree that it is "should"

I absolutely agree it a complete contradiction to say grace is free but it costs. :) It costs Jesus not us.

I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say.,..we are in complete agreement.:)
Yeah i was trying to say others were mixing grace and works for salvation not you i misread what you wrote. I gotta add in this scripture for those who think turning from sin isnt a work too hehe ;)
Jonah 3:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
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#60
That's bc he already believed the gospel. If you fall into unbelief after you're still sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. If you had a child that hated you, didnt want anything to do with you, moved halfway across the world to get away from you is that child still your child?
Sure it's still your child. But is that child effectively dead until he returns back home? (Luke 15:24). The parable of The Prodigal Son.

I encourage and will immediately welcome any child who returns back home because of my love for them, but until they do they are dead and lost, as Christ points out. They're not in the safety of my home until they return home.