First resurrection, Rev. 20:1-6

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SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,152
774
113
#1
These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,465
1,765
113
#2
These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?
The tribulation saints are not raptured. Jesus comes to earth at that time.

I'm not an expert in eschatology and since no one answered as of yet...

20:6.
All those who share in the resurrection of the righteous are said to be blessed and holy, and the second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. While all the righteous will be raised before the Millennium, individuals will retain their identities and their group identifications such as Gentile believers and believers in Israel in the Old Testament, the church of the New Testament, and saints of the Tribulation.
It should be noted that the term “a thousand years” occurs six times in chapter 20. This was not something that could be seen visually; John had to be informed of it and the vision had to be interpreted as relating to a period of a thousand years. While amillenarians and others have tended to view this as nonliteral, there is no evidence to support this conclusion. This is the only chapter in Revelation where a period of a thousand years is mentioned, and the fact that it is mentioned six times and is clearly described as a period of time before which and after which events take place lead to the conclusion that it means a literal thousand-year period.
Since other time designations in Revelation are literal (e.g., “42 months,” 11:2; 13:5; “1,260 days,” 11:3; 12:6) it is natural to take “a thousand years” literally also. If the term “a thousand years” designates a nonspecific but long period of time, the present Age between Christ’s two advents, as amillenarians hold, then one would expect John to say simply that Christ would reign “a long time,” in contrast to the “short time” of Satan’s release (20:3).
Events which precede the thousand years are (a) the second coming of Christ, (b) the beast and the false prophet thrown into the fiery lake, (c) the armies destroyed, (d) Satan bound and locked in the Abyss, (e) thrones of judgment introduced, and (f) the martyred dead of the Tribulation resurrected. These events revealed in their proper sequence make it clear that the thousand-year period follows all these events, including the second coming of Christ. The conclusion that the Second Coming is premillennial is clearly supported by a normal, literal interpretation of this text. Bible Knowledge Commentary
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,298
417
83
#3
lol, one things for sure if the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and the ones who worshiped the image are killed and the fowl eat them(Rev.19:21) then the image,mark ect. cant take place during the mill. and so takes place prior to it.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,079
827
113
#4
It should be noted that the term “a thousand years” occurs six times in chapter 20. This was not something that could be seen visually; John had to be informed of it and the vision had to be interpreted as relating to a period of a thousand years. While amillenarians and others have tended to view this as nonliteral, there is no evidence to support this conclusion. This is the only chapter in Revelation where a period of a thousand years is mentioned, and the fact that it is mentioned six times and is clearly described as a period of time before which and after which events take place lead to the conclusion that it means a literal thousand-year period.
Special “signified” interpretation instructions to rightly divide are given at the beginning.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and “signified” it by his angel unto his servant John:

To receive the “signified” understanding our interpreting prescription must be applied.not loking to the things seen the temporal

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

A list of those temporal things used as metaphors in that parable. In order to give us the unseen spiritual understanding.

Angel…. no form
Key.. the gospel
Chain… the binding power of the gospel.
Hand… the will of the father of lies
bottomless pit…security
Dragon the father of lies..
thousand years … an unknow the last days begging with the renting of the veil


Revelation 20:1-2 King James And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

The word thousand is used numerous times in other parables throughout the Bible .It represent unknow in respect to what ever is in view, time, money animals etc. The times it is used outside of that parable in Revelation 20 it represents a unknown. Why would it change especially in lieu that the whole book of Revelation he said it to be signified? Why literalize loose the light of the gospel ?

God does not give us exact time periods or number people. People are quick to be of the number so they can compare themselves to themselves. Jesus informs us it is not wise. We walk by faith. He will come on the last day as a thief in the night once. A thousand years are as if 1 day was the same. (Unknown)He sets that up metaphor in psalms and verifies it in 2 Peter and then uses it in the last book revelation..

Why is it any different in any other metaphor used in that parables. The language in revelation is signified why literalize it and miss the unseen spiritual understanding?

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ecclesiastes used the same signified interpretation, thousand.. equaling a unknown period of time. Many , many examples.

Ecclesiastes 6:5-7 King James Version (KJV) Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other. Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,925
288
83
#5
These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?
Once the resurrection happens no Gentile can be saved after that, for if they were a hypocrite Jesus said they cannot dwell with Him, and once He shuts the door it is too late to be saved.

All people that miss the first resurrection has to go to the great white throne judgment after the millennial reign of Christ.

If the resurrection is pre-7 years period then no Gentile can be saved after that, but the beast makes war against the saints for the last three and one half years, and it cannot be talking about Israel for the 2 witnesses only started working among them to turn them to Jesus, and going against the Jews cannot be the greatest persecution against the truth in history.

By way of the 7 years peace agreement in the Middle East it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good, and said He is gathering the whole house of Israel and putting them back on their land, and will not leave the Jews in the nations anymore.

The beast makes war against the Christians on a worldwide level which is why it is the greatest persecution ever in the last half of the 7 years period, so if all Jews are on their land as decreed by God, then the beast must be going against Gentiles around the world that keep the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus.

But if the resurrection happens before the 7 years period then there is no Gentile saint during the 7 years period.

Also repentance, and salvation, are still available during the first half of the 7 years period, so Gentiles can be saved during that time, but if the resurrection is before the 7 years period there is no Gentile that can be saved.

When they take the mark of the beast, which has to do with technology, a GPS tracking system for humans, for if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene, which Trump addressed concerning 911 could of been avoided if they had a tracking device for people on temporary visas, and also Trump pushes for peace in the Middle East more than any other president.

It is close at hand.

Also the Son will deliver the kingdom up to the Father when He has put down all rule, authority, and power, so once the resurrection happens then God is right on them pronto, and not playing around, and puts them down right away.

So why would God allow them to continue for 7 years if the resurrection happens before the 7 years period, and why would His wrath be that long.

The Bible says that the beast makes war against the saints, and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people all things are finished, which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father.

And then God's wrath will go against them which is not that long of a time leading to the battle of Armageddon where Jesus fights the world, and defeats the world, and saves Israel who has turned to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

Which Paul said the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God, which the falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which they stop the preaching of it during the first three and one half years, and the time that they will not endure sound doctrine, but want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts, the new age movement false interpretation of the Bible that God warns the saints about, and all religions interpreted by them.

Also God is giving the world their way for 7 years, and repentance, and salvation, is still available to the world for the first half, and the beast has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues, and has power to rule for the last three and one half years, which he can only have that power if God gave it to him.

So God's wrath is not in the 7 years period because God is allowing them to have their way for 7 years, so He will not go against the world for the 7 years period.

But if the resurrection happens before the 7 years period then God would go against them right away, for there is no purpose for God to let them continue ruling if the saints, the truth, are gone from the world, but they still continue ruling for the 7 years period.

In conclusion there is no resurrection before the man of sin, New Age Christ rules for the last three and one half years.

Also when the man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East, the Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth, but Paul said when the nations do come together and say Peace and safety the saints will not be deceived by it knowing it is not the operation of God.

So the saints are on earth when the 7 years period starts.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
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113
#6
These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?
It is simple........the resurrection/change A.K.A. RAPTURE (so called) is POST great TRIBULATION PRE WRATH at the 7th TRUMP...................THIS is what the bible teaches when ALL facts, contexts, verbiage, scriptures are viewed HONESTLY...........

I WAS raised in an IMMINENT return church, had that crammed down my throat, dogmatically defend it, believed it......and then I had to teach through 1st Thessalonians and 2nd Thessalonians........this in turn led to further study and seeing things that did not JIVE with the imminent return........then this led to a 27 year intensive study.......

JESUS was clear.....NO FLESH will be left alive to RAPTURE if he does not step in when he DOES.......................and for sure.....there are EVENTS that MUST take place before the BODY PRESENCE of JESUS CHRIST and OUR GATHERING together UNTO HIM.......

NOTE <---> THE GREAT APOSTASY is TIED directly to the MAN OF SIN being revealed as GOD on the throne being worshiped as god.....HIS coming is tied to MIRACLES, SIGNS and LYING WONDERS and the REASON many will FALL AWAY into apostasy......they believed the farce of the imminent return....and when JESUS does not COME IMMINENTLY........the results are evident
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,726
1,617
113
#7
These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.
I believe there will be people living and dying during the millennium. The Saints who take part in the first resurrection will be eternal. Jesus with the Saints shall rule these people for 1000 years.. So i believe during the 1000 years normal humans ( not Saints ) will have the opportunity to follow the will of Jesus and be saved.. These people will take part in the second resurrection at the end of the 1000 years and thus some of them will be saved.. You will read in Revelation 20 that at the end of the 1000 years satan will be released and will go out and deceive people and lead them to attack Jerusalem and the camp of the Saints.. So these people satan will be leading will not be the Saints who took part in the first resurrection, They will be decadents of people who will have been ruled by Jesus and the Saints for 1000 years..

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?
Well i do not believe in the doctrine of Pre- tribulation Rapture.. I believe the Rapture will happen on the day of the Second coming of my LORD Jesus Christ.. So my position is that all the Saints shall be raptured and raised from the dead on the same day.. The Day of the LORD..
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
11,786
113
#8
I believe there will be people living and dying during the millennium. The Saints who take part in the first resurrection will be eternal. Jesus with the Saints shall rule these people for 1000 years.. So i believe during the 1000 years normal humans ( not Saints ) will have the opportunity to follow the will of Jesus and be saved.. These people will take part in the second resurrection at the end of the 1000 years and thus some of them will be saved.. You will read in Revelation 20 that at the end of the 1000 years satan will be released and will go out and deceive people and lead them to attack Jerusalem and the camp of the Saints.. So these people satan will be leading will not be the Saints who took part in the first resurrection, They will be decadents of people who will have been ruled by Jesus and the Saints for 1000 years..



Well i do not believe in the doctrine of Pre- tribulation Rapture.. I believe the Rapture will happen on the day of the Second coming of my LORD Jesus Christ.. So my position is that all the Saints shall be raptured and raised from the dead on the same day.. The Day of the LORD..
AMEN...........and will add....Paul and Peter tie the Day of the Lord, Christ and God into ONE day......after all JESUS is LORD, CHRIST and GOD............
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
8,953
4,864
113
73
#9
AMEN...........and will add....Paul and Peter tie the Day of the Lord, Christ and God into ONE day......after all JESUS is LORD, CHRIST and GOD............
This is so true dcon, many saints will be martyred before the second coming. But that won't hurt a spiritual hair on their head.

It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.
Let us not read more into the scriptures than is given us. It states: "On those in the first resurrection, the second death has no power." (see Rev. 20:6) That is all it says. :)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
11,786
113
#10
This is so true dcon, many saints will be martyred before the second coming. But that won't hurt a spiritual hair on their head.



Let us not read more into the scriptures than is given us. It states: "On those in the first resurrection, the second death has no power." (see Rev. 20:6) That is all it says. :)
AMEN a grand entrance into the Kingdom as a martyr for JESUS.........the ultimate sacrifice and proof of dedication to the Lord
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,465
1,765
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#11
NOTE <---> THE GREAT APOSTASY is TIED directly to the MAN OF SIN being revealed as GOD on the throne being worshiped as god.....HIS coming is tied to MIRACLES, SIGNS and LYING WONDERS
So far so good...
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
(2Th 2:9-10)

and the REASON many will FALL AWAY into apostasy......they believed the farce of the imminent return....and when JESUS does not COME IMMINENTLY........the results are evident
Uh OH, a non sequitur, and I can't find that one like I did with the one above.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
11,786
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#12
So far so good...
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
(2Th 2:9-10)

Uh OH, a non sequitur, and I can't find that one like I did with the one above.
Logically deduced by the facts on the ground....

a. Can one apostate from the truth if they are not in the truth? NOPE

b. Who would be most likely to apostate when the man of SIN stands up? Those who believe Jesus can come at any minute BEFORE the man of SIN stands and is identified as god (with a small g)

c. If the IMMINENT return is true....NO believers will be left on the planet to apostate from the truth <--THE DEAD in CHRIST and we which are alive and remain = ALL the saved....no one left to apostate away from the truth and the FALSE religions do not have the truth


The above are sound, logically deduced conclusions.......
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,465
1,765
113
#13
Logically deduced by the facts on the ground....

a. Can one apostate from the truth if they are not in the truth? NOPE
True, not sure what that has to do with the imminent position.

b. Who would be most likely to apostate when the man of SIN stands up? Those who believe Jesus can come at any minute BEFORE the man of SIN stands and is identified as god (with a small g)
Yet Scripture says it will happen to those who are lured after signs and wonders, not those watching, praying and expecting their Lord's return.

c. If the IMMINENT return is true....NO believers will be left on the planet to apostate from the truth <--THE DEAD in CHRIST and we which are alive and remain = ALL the saved....no one left to apostate away from the truth and the FALSE religions do not have the truth
There will be converts during the Tribulation.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
11,786
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#14
True, not sure what that has to do with the imminent position.


Yet Scripture says it will happen to those who are lured after signs and wonders, not those watching, praying and expecting their Lord's return.


There will be converts during the Tribulation.
Your last two points contradict the fact that it is those who are already in the truth that APOSTATE from the truth and again I state one cannot APOSTATE from the truth unless they are ALREADY in the TRUTH......

Again....POST tribulation answers ALL contradictions........... HAH
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,465
1,765
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#15
Your last two points contradict the fact that it is those who are already in the truth that APOSTATE from the truth and again I state one cannot APOSTATE from the truth unless they are ALREADY in the TRUTH......

Again....POST tribulation answers ALL contradictions........... HAH
One can apostate from true doctrine without ever knowing the truth.
1 John 2:19 KJVS
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
11,786
113
#16
One can apostate from true doctrine without ever knowing the truth.
1 John 2:19 KJVS
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Not the same thing bro......the very word apostasy (apo-hystamie) is directed at believers defecting.....it is not indicative of LOST men, having never been saved going out from among us.......

apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt

and regardless......the PAROUSIA of CHRIST and our gathering together unto CHRIST SHALL NOT COME UNTIL the man of SIN is reveald as god sitting on the throne claiming to be god.....HAVE you seen this yet?

No one has......Paul uses a Grandsville Sharp in 2nd Thessalonians 2.....literally......Concerning the BODY PRESENCE of CHRIST, THAT IS TO SAY our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM...........

Coming is from PAROUSIA and is found in the bolded above <----IT WILL NOT COME UNTIL......

a. THE APO-HYSTAMIE from the TRUTH
AND
b. THE MAN of SIN, SON of PERDITION COMES and is identified by what he does

This is as clear as can be............
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,079
827
113
#17
It is simple........the resurrection/change A.K.A. RAPTURE (so called) is POST great TRIBULATION PRE WRATH at the 7th TRUMP...................THIS is what the bible teaches when ALL facts, contexts, verbiage, scriptures are viewed HONESTLY...........

I WAS raised in an IMMINENT return church, had that crammed down my throat, dogmatically defend it, believed it......and then I had to teach through 1st Thessalonians and 2nd Thessalonians........this in turn led to further study and seeing things that did not JIVE with the imminent return........then this led to a 27 year intensive study.......

JESUS was clear.....NO FLESH will be left alive to RAPTURE if he does not step in when he DOES.......................and for sure.....there are EVENTS that MUST take place before the BODY PRESENCE of JESUS CHRIST and OUR GATHERING together UNTO HIM.......

NOTE <---> THE GREAT APOSTASY is TIED directly to the MAN OF SIN being revealed as GOD on the throne being worshiped as god.....HIS coming is tied to MIRACLES, SIGNS and LYING WONDERS and the REASON many will FALL AWAY into apostasy......they believed the farce of the imminent return....and when JESUS does not COME IMMINENTLY........the results are evident

The man of sin has been revealed as the antichrists the many that are here as there was when it was written. Lying sings and wonders are everywhere. What are some waiting for a lying sign and wonder ?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,465
1,765
113
#18
Not the same thing bro......the very word apostasy (apo-hystamie) is directed at believers defecting.....it is not indicative of LOST men, having never been saved going out from among us.......

apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt

and regardless......the PAROUSIA of CHRIST and our gathering together unto CHRIST SHALL NOT COME UNTIL the man of SIN is reveald as god sitting on the throne claiming to be god.....HAVE you seen this yet?

No one has......Paul uses a Grandsville Sharp in 2nd Thessalonians 2.....literally......Concerning the BODY PRESENCE of CHRIST, THAT IS TO SAY our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM...........

Coming is from PAROUSIA and is found in the bolded above <----IT WILL NOT COME UNTIL......

a. THE APO-HYSTAMIE from the TRUTH
AND
b. THE MAN of SIN, SON of PERDITION COMES and is identified by what he does

This is as clear as can be............
I thought we were discussing immanency, and how you said that would lead to apostasy...

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
(Mar 13:32-37)

Instead, Jesus commands us to watch for He could come at any time.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
2,107
456
83
#19
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?

Explain why the Two Witnesses "ascended up to heaven" at the "6th Trumpet[events]/2nd Woe" (when after they ascend, Scripture says, "the third woe cometh quickly" and then says "the seventh angel sounded [the 7th trumpet]" when [you are] saying EVERYONE/ALL SAINTS of ALL TIMES are [supposedly] to be "resurrected" at the 7th Trumpet... Why aren't THESE TWO?!? Why did THEY TWO "ascend" BEFORE that point in time? according to the "7th-Trumpet-[first(only one)-]resurrection" viewpoint [which is not my viewpoint]).


[again, my viewpoint: "[re: resurrection] but each [G1538 - Hekastos - 'each (of more than two)'] IN HIS OWN ORDER" 1Cor15:23; "blessed and holy is the one having A PART [G3313 - meros] in the first resurrection" Rev20:6;... "the resurrection OF LIFE" Jn5:29--The 2W are included in this "resurrection OF LIFE" but are seen to be resurrected and ascended up to Heaven BEFORE the 7th Trumpet sounds (and... so is "the Church which is His body" even earlier than that point in the chronology, which is what 1Cor15:51-54 is making a point to say, not to mention the "chronology/sequence" explanations found in passages such as 1Th and 2Th, and that of 2Tim4:8/Rev4:4/Rev5:9/Eph4:30... etc)]
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,088
490
83
#20
These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?
The gathering includes some that are resurrected as well as the living.
It is a harvest.
Harvest has 4 parts.
Firstfruits = Jesus and those he resurrected seen walking in Jerusalem
Main = the pretrib rapture and the dead in Christ (only those that died IN CHRIST)
gleanings = those left behind,stragglers (all killed,martyred,by the ac)
Corners= the 144k Jews,as well as the Jewish IN CHRIST (RIPE FRUIT) OF REV 14.

Now,that would be the correct starting place.
You see,most overlook that those sitting on thrones are all martyrs,martyred DURING THE GT. And I might add,early on,because the church age ends on earth fairly early in the gt.

The context never suggests they are resurrected AFTER the gt.
That is added from taking an assumption of a post trib rapture.

I see two things ,among many that are bad starting places. 1) making things fit a post trib rapture model. 2) the rabbit trail of "but who is it that inhabits the millineal kingdom."..of which they get creative with trib saints and such. They center a model on nothing,just ASSUMING there are all these saved people running around for 7 years dodging the ac.
The bible refutes that notion.
It says ALL ON THE PLANET TAKE THE MARK. They take it or die.
It says EVERY MAN,WOMAN,AND CHILD. WHETHER BOND OR FREE,ALL TAKE THE MARK.

There is no post trib resurrection.
It is taken from thin air.
The fact that the Jews are harvested (raptured) DURING THE GT, is actually enough to know God is past dealing(completed),with the church/church age
Rev 20 is merely sauing those martyrs were martyred during the gt and are PART OF the 1st res.,NOT that they are the EXCLUSIVE "1st res".(which would be impossible)....Jesus is the 1st fruits of the first resurrection.
Of you read it in context,you will see that 1st resurrection is being contrasted with 2nd death,not establishing a post trib resurrection.

Now what normally happens is a argument about some fallen through the woodwork that supposedly get saved late in the gt.
Could be,and many other non issues,such as some remote tribe on some island etc.