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There is a guideline posted in each forum but the main offences to be reported are things like blasphemy and heresy. I'll try to find it. Here you go;
https://christianchat.com/threads/guidelines-for-reporting-posts.188234/post-4067360
https://christianchat.com/threads/guidelines-for-reporting-posts.188234/post-4067360
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LOL!
that's funny
call all the views heretical that you want to
but do avoid calling people heretical or unsaved
it's gauche
and it is also fine to call someone rude if you think they are
some people here are actually very rude and not above calling names...but we do report those and eventually they calm down.
there are few real pleasant conversations in the BDF, but you are welcome to try
I wouldn't report most infractions because after a while you will sound like the little boy reporting a wolf and there was none and then one day a real wolf showed up and when he cried for help...no one came
maybe file it under 'bear ye one another's burdens'
there are Calvinists in this thread teasing folk who don't know them very well
I am not a Calvinist
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they are pulling your leg
looks like ieuan is a relatively new member
don't let the Calvinists have so much fun
we have been dealing with them for a couple of months now
FYI, even if someone 'reports' you that is not some smear on your character...it is often just a disagreement in doctrine and nothing will happen
if someone really gets rude? ignore them. if you hover your mouse over their name (to the left) several choices will pop up. one of them is 'ignore'. click on that and you will not see their posts anymore unless you decide you want to and then you can unignore or just click on 'show ignored content' which you will see to the right at the bottom of the posts on a page
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DB7
Righteous does not mean perfect.
It means to be right with God.
David sinned as bad as any man.
Moses sinned and was punished.
Lot chose to live with a corrupt people and fornicated whilst drunk.
All the old saints sinned except Enoch and Elijah, both escaped physical death.
But because they worshipped God and loved His commandments they were made
righteous by faith in a Redeemer to come.
Righteous does not mean perfect.
It means to be right with God.
David sinned as bad as any man.
Moses sinned and was punished.
Lot chose to live with a corrupt people and fornicated whilst drunk.
All the old saints sinned except Enoch and Elijah, both escaped physical death.
But because they worshipped God and loved His commandments they were made
righteous by faith in a Redeemer to come.
That was the point at hand, that is specifically what Butterfly asked me to defend, and that is how I replied to her.
I'm not sure where the confusion lies?
Let's take a look at Article II
Now this is a DIRECT REFUTATION of Calvinistic Limited Atonement. And it is consistent with the Gospel.
However, if one takes this literally it teaches UNIVERSALISM, which is false. Amazing how theologians would commit such a blunder.
But then Universalism is rejected, and they clarify for us that only those who believe receive forgiveness of sins and eternal/everlasting life.
This verse is once again meant to refute Limited Atonement, and consistent with the Gospel.
Now this is a DIRECT REFUTATION of Calvinistic Limited Atonement. And it is consistent with the Gospel.
However, if one takes this literally it teaches UNIVERSALISM, which is false. Amazing how theologians would commit such a blunder.
But then Universalism is rejected, and they clarify for us that only those who believe receive forgiveness of sins and eternal/everlasting life.
This verse is once again meant to refute Limited Atonement, and consistent with the Gospel.
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Now we are back to the Total Depravity of Reformed Theology. As we can see the Remonstrants were NOT totally rejecting Reformed Theology but modifying it.
At the same time this doctrine of Total Depravity is false since it requires that sinners be regenerated BEFORE they are saved as seen below:
According to Scripture, even though sinners are dead in their trespasses and sins, and enemies and aliens of God, the SUPERNATURAL POWER of the Gospel and the SUPERNATURAL convicting and convincing power of the Holy Spirit brings about conversion.
THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16)
THE GOSPEL IS THE INCORRUPTIBLE SEED OF THE NEW BIRTH
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (1 Pet 1:23-25)
THE WORD OF GOD IS A POWERFUL LIVING WORD ACCOMPANIED BY THE SPIRIT
For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His [the Holy Spirit's] sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. (Heb 4:12,13)
ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE ON AND RECEIVE CHRIST ARE BORN AGAIN
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:12)
ONLY THOSE WHO REPENT AND BELIEVE RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
[Note: Christian baptism follows the New Birth, it does not cause it]
At the same time this doctrine of Total Depravity is false since it requires that sinners be regenerated BEFORE they are saved as seen below:
According to Scripture, even though sinners are dead in their trespasses and sins, and enemies and aliens of God, the SUPERNATURAL POWER of the Gospel and the SUPERNATURAL convicting and convincing power of the Holy Spirit brings about conversion.
THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16)
THE GOSPEL IS THE INCORRUPTIBLE SEED OF THE NEW BIRTH
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (1 Pet 1:23-25)
THE WORD OF GOD IS A POWERFUL LIVING WORD ACCOMPANIED BY THE SPIRIT
For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His [the Holy Spirit's] sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. (Heb 4:12,13)
ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE ON AND RECEIVE CHRIST ARE BORN AGAIN
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:12)
ONLY THOSE WHO REPENT AND BELIEVE RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
[Note: Christian baptism follows the New Birth, it does not cause it]
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Let's look at 2 Peter 3:9, as you alluded to it in your first sentence...
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.[2 Peter 3:9]
Context is king my friend. That whole book is directed towards believers. Go back to chapter 1 and find all the personal pronouns, and they are referencing believers. He is not willing any of them perish. Where else can we find this language? I am glad you asked me that question.
“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.[Matthew 18:12-14]
Look at this parable the Christ gave. The Father is not willing any of the sheep perish. The elect, pre-conversion, were always His sheep, but they went astray in Adam. This does not mean the sheep are born saved, or even were always saved. It means these sheep are those He chose from before the creation of the world[Eph. 1:4]. Adam represented all mankind(his posterity) whilst living in the Garden. When he sinned and fell, we fell too, being in Adam. God has taken from all of Adam's fallen posterity those He chose(the elect) from before the creation of the world, gave them to His Son, who died for them, rose for their justification[Rom. 4:25] and also intercedes for[Heb. 7:25].
Then let's examine Rev. 3:20...
Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.[Rev. 3:20]
This was addressed to the church at Laodicea, not all mankind my friend. They had grown lukewarm. He was telling them to ship up.
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.[2 Peter 3:9]
Context is king my friend. That whole book is directed towards believers. Go back to chapter 1 and find all the personal pronouns, and they are referencing believers. He is not willing any of them perish. Where else can we find this language? I am glad you asked me that question.
“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.[Matthew 18:12-14]
Look at this parable the Christ gave. The Father is not willing any of the sheep perish. The elect, pre-conversion, were always His sheep, but they went astray in Adam. This does not mean the sheep are born saved, or even were always saved. It means these sheep are those He chose from before the creation of the world[Eph. 1:4]. Adam represented all mankind(his posterity) whilst living in the Garden. When he sinned and fell, we fell too, being in Adam. God has taken from all of Adam's fallen posterity those He chose(the elect) from before the creation of the world, gave them to His Son, who died for them, rose for their justification[Rom. 4:25] and also intercedes for[Heb. 7:25].
Then let's examine Rev. 3:20...
Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.[Rev. 3:20]
This was addressed to the church at Laodicea, not all mankind my friend. They had grown lukewarm. He was telling them to ship up.
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I
DB7 said:
"but righteous does, without exception, mean, NOT totally depraved, nor have a fallen nature."
I wanted to say I find your explanation reasonable DB7, but if you don't mind we can say
that we do retai the fallen nature in part after conversion, we battle against the flesh, and
some of us like David fail miserably. Yet we are seen as righteous by God, because we are
covered by the righteousness of Christ. He died for us and inputes His righteousness
to us, so the Ftaher sees us only through the light of Christ. That is what righteousness means.
I am not picking on you, just wanted to say how I see it.
Note, although David caused the murder of Uzziah the hittite and took his wife as his own, a vile crime,
yet David continued to recieve God's bessing throughout his life. david wa spunished yes, and his crime
made public, yet he retained God's love throughout his life as God's anninted.
Other saints sinned badly, yet were counted rigtheous. :0)
"but righteous does, without exception, mean, NOT totally depraved, nor have a fallen nature."
I wanted to say I find your explanation reasonable DB7, but if you don't mind we can say
that we do retai the fallen nature in part after conversion, we battle against the flesh, and
some of us like David fail miserably. Yet we are seen as righteous by God, because we are
covered by the righteousness of Christ. He died for us and inputes His righteousness
to us, so the Ftaher sees us only through the light of Christ. That is what righteousness means.
I am not picking on you, just wanted to say how I see it.
Note, although David caused the murder of Uzziah the hittite and took his wife as his own, a vile crime,
yet David continued to recieve God's bessing throughout his life. david wa spunished yes, and his crime
made public, yet he retained God's love throughout his life as God's anninted.
Other saints sinned badly, yet were counted rigtheous. :0)
I
Whispered said:
"And if they are not called by the HS then they are responsible for rejecting such a gracious propitiation."
If "they" are not called, how are they responsible for rejecting what they were not called to?"
Al who reject Christ and the promptings of the HS are responsible for their actions and will suffer in
a place of torment set aside for such as those. I will post the relevant artcle from the Confessions later.
As in the parables of 'The sower and the seed' and 'the man with one talent', these men (and women)
are promted by the Holy Spirit and have some emasure of grace, i.e understanding of the work of God
and of His glory, yet they are never born again and so fall back. They recive a gift of grace and illumination
and yet are drawn away by the world or their cares are so bad they forget the treasures ahead. Never truly
saved you see.
Thank you for your considered response.
To All:
I don't mind a little kindly banter in the room, even at my expense
I don't mind if you disagree, I do mind if we treat the things of God
carelessly. What we say in here today could affect someone seeking Christ.
I am sure you would never impede the growth of a new soul to Christ.
"And if they are not called by the HS then they are responsible for rejecting such a gracious propitiation."
If "they" are not called, how are they responsible for rejecting what they were not called to?"
Al who reject Christ and the promptings of the HS are responsible for their actions and will suffer in
a place of torment set aside for such as those. I will post the relevant artcle from the Confessions later.
As in the parables of 'The sower and the seed' and 'the man with one talent', these men (and women)
are promted by the Holy Spirit and have some emasure of grace, i.e understanding of the work of God
and of His glory, yet they are never born again and so fall back. They recive a gift of grace and illumination
and yet are drawn away by the world or their cares are so bad they forget the treasures ahead. Never truly
saved you see.
Thank you for your considered response.
To All:
I don't mind a little kindly banter in the room, even at my expense
I don't mind if you disagree, I do mind if we treat the things of God
carelessly. What we say in here today could affect someone seeking Christ.
I am sure you would never impede the growth of a new soul to Christ.
Calvin is dead.
The Bible does teach that Christ died for ALL. All that the father gave to the son . Not every person in the whole world. universalism
The key is as many as. Not one more or one less. Many references to as many as...
Below are four of as many as there are (all)
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Not one more or one less the whole
Remember where they got the power that enabled them to belive. .previously having no faith. (none not little)
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Poer to becomes means they were powerless to belive .
The faith of Christ come by hearing God its not something that is imagined as if it was of us.
If Christ has begun that growth he will finish it.
Because as we are informed in Philipian 1:6 .That if Christ has begun the good work of salvation in us he as our confidence. He working in us will finish it to the end. We are not as those who fall away having no hope.
I would suggest and am not promoting we do so. But Christians when they deny Christ in unbelief knowing the promise of Philippians 1:6 We are given His belief he cannot deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Great example in Mathew 16 that reveals the motive of operation (man of sin ) .Satan working in mankind denying Christ.
.Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man as the things seen the temporal.(flesh and blood) Today those who crucify Christ over and over subjecting Him to public shame as if one demonstration of the father and Son working as one bringing the peace of God which does surpass all human understanding. Will find no forgiveness . Just denial
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mathew 16:
Because as we are informed in Philipian 1:6 .That if Christ has begun the good work of salvation in us he as our confidence. He working in us will finish it to the end. We are not as those who fall away having no hope.
I would suggest and am not promoting we do so. But Christians when they deny Christ in unbelief knowing the promise of Philippians 1:6 We are given His belief he cannot deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Great example in Mathew 16 that reveals the motive of operation (man of sin ) .Satan working in mankind denying Christ.
.Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man as the things seen the temporal.(flesh and blood) Today those who crucify Christ over and over subjecting Him to public shame as if one demonstration of the father and Son working as one bringing the peace of God which does surpass all human understanding. Will find no forgiveness . Just denial
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mathew 16:
I have far less problems with the 5 points of Remonstrance then i do with the 5 pillars of calvinism..
But i have to be careful because the 5 points put forward in the OP are written in difficult to understand English.. Seems like very old English.. Does someone have a modernized version of the 5 points written in plain speech ??
But i have to be careful because the 5 points put forward in the OP are written in difficult to understand English.. Seems like very old English.. Does someone have a modernized version of the 5 points written in plain speech ??
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