Five Fold Ministry

[presidente]

Well since the apostles and prophets are with us only in the written Word of God, the term *Five Fold Ministry* is incorrect. You can now call it a *Three Fold Ministry* (evangelists, pastors, and teachers).

1. There are only TWELVE apostles of the Lamb (Rev 21:14).
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb...

TWELVE TRIBES
TWELVE APOSTLES
TWELVE FOUNDATIONS
TWELVE THRONES FOR TWELVE APOSTLES RULING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL

2. The apostle John -- who wrote Revelation -- was the LAST genuine prophet (Rev 22:18).
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book...

There are twelve apostles of the Lamb but Ephesians 4 also tells of the gift of apostles given AFTER the ascension. So other apostles mentioned in scripture are Matthias, (Acts 1), Paul, Barnabas, (Acts 14:4, 14), and apparently Apollos (I Corinthians 3), Silvanus and Timothy (I Thessalonians 1:1, 2:6)

 

[pottersclay]

Was preaching excluded or is that under evangelism???

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are twelve apostles of the Lamb but Ephesians 4 also tells of the gift of apostles given AFTER the ascension. So other apostles mentioned in scripture are Matthias, (Acts 1), Paul, Barnabas, (Acts 14:4, 14), and apparently Apollos (I Corinthians 3), Silvanus and Timothy (I Thessalonians 1:1, 2:6)

Since Scripture does not contradict itself, and we know that Christ already had appointed apostles BEFORE His crucifixion, what is stated in Ephesians 4 is a summation of the gifts related to ministry of the Word.

 

[Lafftur]

I believe ALL FIVE (Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers) are alive and well in the Body of Christ and operating if full force today and even right now as we speak.

Why do I believe ALL FIVE are operating today?

Because Paul said they were for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ - we need all five because we're still on the Earth and under construction.

When Christ returns, then He'll be finished and we'll be like Him.


Ephesians 4:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[Lafftur]

Was preaching excluded or is that under evangelism???

Hello pottersclay,

Preaching is always going forth! Definitely, the evangelist (like Billy Graham) preaches the good news of salvation - Jesus Saves! However, all do some form of preaching - testifying Jesus is Lord and there is no other!

 

[Wansvic]

Well since the apostles and prophets are with us only in the written Word of God, the term *Five Fold Ministry* is incorrect. You can now call it a *Three Fold Ministry* (evangelists, pastors, and teachers).

1. There are only TWELVE apostles of the Lamb (Rev 21:14).
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb...

TWELVE TRIBES
TWELVE APOSTLES
TWELVE FOUNDATIONS
TWELVE THRONES FOR TWELVE APOSTLES RULING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL

2. The apostle John -- who wrote Revelation -- was the LAST genuine prophet (Rev 22:18).
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book...

The bible disagrees with your statement. The words recorded indicate that the words of the bible are to be used to give each of us an understanding of the concepts within its pages.
First one knows it was Jesus who set up the five offices of ministry. (Eph 4:11-13) The purpose of those operating in the ministries was to assist and perfect the spiritual understanding of mankind after Jesus left. These offices will continue in operation until the end when Jesus reappears and takes His children back with Him into heaven. At that time, no one will need to teach others because we will have arrived and be in the presences of our King.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Eph 4:11-13

Jesus Himself made the following comment above receiving a prophet. One must ask why would He make that statement if future prophets would be non existent?
"He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward." Matt 19:38

Further it says that we are to rightly divide the word, meaning scriptures are not to jumbled together but separated into appropriate categories for the purpose of correct understanding.

 

[Wansvic]

Correlation? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Symbolism would have definitely been a better word. However, I hope the content made some sense and it was helpful.

 

[Wansvic]

IF YOU ARE READING BOOKS ABOUT THE BIBLE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE, YOU PROBABLY DO NOT HAVE THE GREATEST TEACHER OF ALL TIME.........THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Biblical truth can come from many sources but must always be confirmed by the bible itself. The Holy Spirit brings revelation.
We see this principle mentioned by Paul in the following scripture:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase."1 Cor 3:6

So how a seed of truth is planted, and how it is watered and by whom is not what's important. What is of utmost importance is that the person has had some of the Word of God implanted within their soul so that the Holy Ghost can give revelation that what one has been taught is actually true.

 

[Lafftur]

IF YOU ARE READING BOOKS ABOUT THE BIBLE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE, YOU PROBABLY DO NOT HAVE THE GREATEST TEACHER OF ALL TIME.........THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Biblical truth can come from many sources but must always be confirmed by the bible itself. The Holy Spirit brings revelation.
We see this principle mentioned by Paul in the following scripture:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase."1 Cor 3:6

So how a seed of truth is planted, and how it is watered and by whom is not what's important. What is of utmost importance is that the person has had some of the Word of God implanted within their soul so that the Holy Ghost can give revelation that what one has been taught is actually true.

I do agree that the Holy Ghost/Spirit as a Teacher does give us understanding of the scriptures. In addition, the Holy Spirit as a Counselor teaches us throughout everyday life skills - wisdom and insight to apply the Word of God to our lives and be a doer of the Word.

Also, the Holy Spirit is a Guide and Comforter, too! He shows us things before they happen and things that are to come and ministers to our emotions and mental well-being...............joy and peace like a River flowing.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I do agree that the Holy Ghost/Spirit as a Teacher does give us understanding of the scriptures. In addition, the Holy Spirit as a Counselor teaches us throughout everyday life skills - wisdom and insight to apply the Word of God to our lives and be a doer of the Word.

Also, the Holy Spirit is a Guide and Comforter, too! He shows us things before they happen and things that are to come and ministers to our emotions and mental well-being...............joy and peace like a River flowing.

You almost got an award for that answer.......until I came to the part where the Holy Spirit is supposed to be a fortune teller?

 

[Lafftur]

You almost got an award for that answer.......until I came to the part where the Holy Spirit is supposed to be a fortune teller?

No, silly! I did NOT say the Holy Spirit is a fortune teller - it's not about our "fortunes." He shows us things to come.

John 16:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

ooh yes..............Billy Graham.......who said that the bible is not the only holy book
who also said there are many ways to God (Larry King show)
who said the POPE was the greatest evangelist in the world
and Franklyn is just as stupid.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

No, silly! I did NOT say the Holy Spirit is a fortune teller - it's not about our "fortunes." He shows us things to come.

John 16:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Take a verse out of context to bolster your opinion and you get a bunch of pretext mushy drivel. And that is exactly what you have done here.

The only way to correctly understand scripture is to use the hermeneutic method.
Who was Jesus speaking to? His apostles!
What & WHY was the subject? His "farewell speech" so to speak, giveing THEM instruction and courage for their ministry and trials ahead
WHEN and Where: Before His arrest, still at the feast.

Appropriating to yourself what was not meant for you is like taking God's direction to the Jews and thinking He means you too.

 

[Lafftur]

Take a verse out of context to bolster your opinion and you get a bunch of pretext mushy drivel. And that is exactly what you have done here.

The only way to correctly understand scripture is to use the hermeneutic method.
Who was Jesus speaking to? His apostles!
What & WHY was the subject? His "farewell speech" so to speak, giveing THEM instruction and courage for their ministry and trials ahead
WHEN and Where: Before His arrest, still at the feast.

Appropriating to yourself what was not meant for you is like taking God's direction to the Jews and thinking He means you too.

Dear sweet GraceAndTruth,

I will pray for you.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Dear sweet GraceAndTruth,

I will pray for you.

How very condescending of you. How presumptious. How pretentious.
2 Thessalonians 1: 6

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus Himself made the following comment above receiving a prophet. One must ask why would He make that statement if future prophets would be non existent?

Matthew 19 is well before Pentecost and the gift of the Holy Spirit. So from about 30 AD to about 100 AD there were prophets in the churches, and that is what Christ was talking about.

When the apostle John (who was also a prophet) finished and closed the book of Revelation, that was the END of all prophets (OT and NT). And that is why I said that the apostles and prophets are now found in the written Word of God. That is rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

ANYONE CLAIMING TO BE AN APOSTLE OR PROPHET TODAY IS BOGUS.

 

[Lafftur]

How very condescending of you. How presumptious. How pretentious.
2 Thessalonians 1: 6

Oh, sweet GraceAndTruth,

It's okay if we don't agree, we can still be kind towards each other. Wishing you all the best today from a loving heart!

 

[Wansvic]

Matthew 19 is well before Pentecost and the gift of the Holy Spirit. So from about 30 AD to about 100 AD there were prophets in the churches, and that is what Christ was talking about.

When the apostle John (who was also a prophet) finished and closed the book of Revelation, that was the END of all prophets (OT and NT). And that is why I said that the apostles and prophets are now found in the written Word of God. That is rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

ANYONE CLAIMING TO BE AN APOSTLE OR PROPHET TODAY IS BOGUS.

What is the difference between a Prophet and the spiritual gift of Prophecy as seen in Corinthians?

 

[YDo]

There seems to be a correlation between the five fold ministry (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher) and man's five senses; vision, hearing, taste, smell and touch.

I would appreciate any insight/revelation members may have on the topic.


"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:11-16

I don't see it.
The passage from Ephesians doesn't address the sense of smell nor taste.

All five professions as I see it pertain to the same calling and anointing to deliver the truth of God in the salvation message of Christ.

And like anything that is a precise pursuit or career, there are qualifications and bars to meet in order to be a good and righteous example.
Because in America the profession is tempting due to tax exempt status it also calls forth a lot of false people. They claim to be any one of those five forms of minister and for the money. And the prestige. It doesn't take long for those who read their Bible to listen to one of those people speak to know they're called by the money not by the spirit.

Pastors who's sermons center around money, pastors who's behavior and form of speech sounds like someone who needs Christ, not someone who should be teaching about Christ. Whoremongers that make the news. Greedy sorts that brag about their wealth from the pulpit. They're sermonizers alright but for that other side.

 

[Lafftur]

What is the difference between a Prophet and the spiritual gift of Prophecy as seen in Corinthians?

This is a great question!

Have you ever noticed how the Prophets were most often sent to deliver a message to those in authority or leadership?

Often, the message was a warning/correction or instruction with the purpose being to turn the hearts of the fathers toward the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers by reprimanding them for the spirit of disobedience and rebellion.

King David and the Prophet Nathan spoke often regarding words from God.

Whereas, Prophecy is for all people and God is revealing what is going to happen before it happens, such as Paul was told that he would be bound hands and feet in Jerusalem; John received the prophecy of the book of Revelation.