Five Foolish Virgins VS Five Wise Virgins

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Absolutely

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The point is that being a "virgin" in scripture does not always mean a saved Christian believer, like you had said it does.

So i have proven that it is unsound reasoning to say all 10 in this parable are saved just because they are all called virgins.
Sure they are all virgins. ( all 10 of them)
Virgin = pure and undefiled
They were waiting for Jesus, as were the wise ones.
But also had the following;
Lamps = Gods word
Light= revelation, illumination,the spirit of God.
And they HAD oil. Oil = the Holy Spirit or anointing
Nothing of their virginity changed
Nor did anything of their lamp possesion.
The only change was oil and light.

Carnal believers are still believers.
Still family
 

posthuman

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they had oil.
It got lower and lower.
Then it ran out.
Show me the verse that says they had oil?

Matthew 25:3
they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil
 

Truth7t7

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The 5 foolish are believers.
Factor that in.

Those left behind will be in that realm.

Jesus said " pray that you may be counted worthy to ESCAPE THE THINGS ABOUT TO COME upon the world..."

There will br great great sorrow at the beheading of millions of believers left behind and slaughtered in the gt. Weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is postribs that say the tribulation is great darkness.


Jesus said " because you have kept my word i will keep you from the hour of trial about to come upon the world"

Postrib rapturists need to factor in all the dynamics.

they had oil.
It got lower and lower.
Then it ran out.

Most believers are carnal.
Low oil.
Your claim is false, the five foolish virgins are "Unsaved"

You arent saved unless your sealed by the Holy Spirit, and this seal is until the day of redemption Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


The scripture is very clear, the five foolish virgins were never saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, the Lord never knew them "Unsaved"

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
 

Absolutely

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Show me the verse that says they had oil?

Matthew 25:3
they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
 

Absolutely

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ah, bro both are significant. God doesn't put arbitrary numbers.
but it'd be useful to find, where else do we have half separated from another half, and where else do we have 10?
that's a lot of connected scripture -- which we ought to expect, that this is not simple. that we could spend years looking at this without finding everything
Mat 24 also has 50% left behind

(just a few sentences back from the virgin parable..actually in the same breath we have 50% used as those left behind.)

sometimes the obvious escapes us.
 

posthuman

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8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
that doesn't say they have oil. it says they have lamps.

a wick will burn for a short time without oil.
 

Truth7t7

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Mat 24 also has 50% left behind

(just a few sentences back from the virgin parable..actually in the same breath we have 50% used as those left behind.)

sometimes the obvious escapes us.
Your claim of a pre-trib rapture is false, the event is the "Second Coming" in final judgement

Matthew 25:11-13KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

The Second Coming, No Man Knows The Day Or Hour

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
 

Truth7t7

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The problem you have is you don't understand the Rapture and the Second Coming are two different events
There is no Pre-Trib rapture found in scripture, all events claimed are nothing more than the "Second Coming"

Jesus Christ will return immediately after the tribulation in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire (The End)

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved
, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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There is no Pre-Trib rapture found in scripture, all events claimed are nothing more than the "Second Coming"

Jesus Christ will return immediately after the tribulation in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire (The End)
There will be both, it doesn't depend on your understanding thereof. I have been preaching the word 35 years, I have seen people like you come and go. You think you know the word but don't. It's laughable, to be honest, how arrogant you guys are in your ignorance of the word of God.
 

Truth7t7

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There will be both, it doesn't depend on your understanding thereof. I have been preaching the word 35 years, I have seen people like you come and go. You think you know the word but don't. It's laughable, to be honest, how arrogant you guys are in your ignorance of the word of God.
Your Claim Is False, There Isnt A (Pre-Trib Rapture) Found In The Scripture.

I Been At It For 43 Years, And Was Bound By The False Teachings Of John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofield For 20 Years, Better Know As Dispensationalism

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture) Don't Be Deceived :)

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
The whole there will be Weeping and Gnashing of teeth point to TROUBLES. And I can show y there is evidence, you just can't comprehend it or haven't understood it as such.

In Rev. 1 we see Jesus in all His Glory (the things which ye HAVE SEEN). In Rev. 2 and 3 we see the Church Age (the things WHICH ARE). In Rev. 4:1 we see the Rapture (followed by the things which will be HEREAFTER).

So, the question is does God call people (the Virgins are people) to Repent AFTER the Rapture in Rev. 4:1 and the answer is of course He does, as can be seen throughout the book of Revelation. So, the Church/Bride is in Heaven marrying the Lamb, the 1/3(Zechariah (13:8-9) of the Jews who repent just before the 1260 DOTL Event is THE WOMAN in Rev. 12 and thus she can't be THE REMNANT in Rev. 12 that Satan turns to go after because she is the woman (Israel who repents) that he can't get at via the Anti-Christ. The 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent and will thus perish (Zechariah 13:8-9) therefore can't be THE REMNANT either, because they do not have the Testimony of Jesus Christ, so this REMNANT can only be the Gentile Church Remnant ON EARTH while the Church/Bride is in Heaven, marrying the Lamb. Thus those who Repent after the Rapture do indeed come unto the Lord, as a matter of fact, they are the Martyrs seen under the 5th Seal, these ones right here as judged in Rev. 20:4...........

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So who do you think THEY are? People who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast are new converts, even the ones who stated they were Christians but were not before the Rapture because they did not have the Hooly Spirit living in them. Even Satan believes and trembles, we must have the Holy Spirit living in us in order to make it unto Heaven.

3-5 million Jews REPENT during the 70th week. The Martyrs are Gentile Martyrs, all these are saved by God AFTER the Rapture of the Church, during the 70th week. In Rev. 14 we see an Angel preaching REPENTANCE. (SEE BELOW)

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

So, what is PREACHING all about? To get people (Human beings) to REPENT. And we that in Rev. 6 via the 5th Seal Martyrs and in Revelation 20:4 via the Martyrs who live and reign with Christ for 1000 years after not having made the Rapture, they must be the Gentile Remnant, because they can't be Jews. The WOMAN is protected by God and no one can get at her, and the 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent will perish, so THE REMNANT can't be Jewish peoples, it can only be the Gentile Remnant Church on earth, after the Rapture, thus its a REMNANT on earth whilst the Church is in Heaven.

Who do you think is the REMNANT that Repents? Its not going to be the Wicked Libs who LOVE EVIL Sir, its going to be those men who professes to be Christians but had FAILED in their walk, they are the most likely people to REPENT, not all will, a lot will take the Mark of the Beast like a weakling, but I see those REPENTING way before these Liberl Atheists. So, of course those who professed to be Christians bit were found wanting will be far more likely to REPENT and become Martyrs than the others in the world. I image a lot will be Muslims who finally see the Light also.
The virgins are not the bride. To suggest that is ignorance of the custom Jesus was referring to, but the disciples were not ignorant they knew what he was talking about because it happened everyday in their culture. These foolish virgins are left without a hope of getting in. The parable ends there and the lesson has completed. You have no authority to extend it using all that convoluted reasoning you invented.
 
S

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Guest
what does it mean that none of them were vigilant as you describe?

But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
(Matthew 25:5)
yet they all awoke when the Groom came. a bit reminiscent of the disciples sleeping in the garden while Christ prayed for them, John 17, eh? but Judas was awake that whole time, hmm..

anyway here in this parable, the difference wasn't being up and awake. the difference was having oil or not. ;)
Again.. since it is a parable about a common custom, then it is possible that their sleeping is not meant to be a criticism.

The wise slept also but there is no rebuke in this detail. They were still wise. Not because they staid awake, there was no rule that they had to. (as far as we can tell from this text) They did not know when the Bridegroom would come and when he did an announcement was made and they went out to meet him.

They were wise because not because they staid awake, since they didn't, they all slept. They were wise because they brought an extra container of oil.

The Foolish were foolish not because they slept, but because they did not bring extra oil on the contingency that the Bridegroom would take such a long time to come. They gambled and lost.

The details that they were all sleeping "might be a subtle hint" from Jesus that He was prophesying that the church would all be in a staid of slumber but then again it is very possible that Jesus did not intend any such thing in using this particular common wedding custom illustration.

What I mean is that if it was well known by the disciples that the friends waiting with the lamps were allowed to sleep until the announcement was made that the bridegroom cometh and that there was never any expectation that they must stay awake then this detail about them sleeping would not have meant anything out of the ordinary to the listeners of this parable. Only the fact that the wise brought extra oil and the foolish did not would be the hinge pin of the lesson. And that is what I think is being said though I confess there is a possibility of the sleeping detail being significant. I would need to know more about what the disciples would have thought of that detail based on the custom. from their culture and time.
 

posthuman

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And that is what I think is being said though I confess there is a possibility of the sleeping detail being significant.
for my part i would say, if it wasn't significant Jesus would not have said it ;)

there's a distinction here between having a lamp and having oil, too. that's significant as well. even the foolish may have lamps, and be virgins, but what's needed is oil: the wise have oil!
 
S

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Guest
for my part i would say, if it wasn't significant Jesus would not have said it ;)

there's a distinction here between having a lamp and having oil, too. that's significant as well
Looking at the text below I believe that they both had burning lamps, those lamps had oil in them. The wise brought extra containers of oil with them. Little small containers that were enough for an extra lamp fill. These were common at the time. The foolish did not bring these. They all slept. During that time their lamps burned up the oil. The wise woke up and used their extra containers which were only enough to put in the lamp and then the little container was empty. The Foolish asked for some but they only had enough for their own lamp otherwise if they split it up their own lamp would go out before they got to the feast.

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


This is an image from a real Jewish clay lamp common from the time.

1618691082572.png

Imagine a small clay jar only the size for one lamp refill.

 

Truth7t7

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for my part i would say, if it wasn't significant Jesus would not have said it ;)

there's a distinction here between having a lamp and having oil, too. that's significant as well. even the foolish may have lamps, and be virgins, but what's needed is oil: the wise have oil!
Matthew Chapters 24-25 have multiple parables, all dealing with the second coming, the (Servant) that ends in final judgement, the sheep & goats that ends in final judgement and the 10 virgins are nothing more than a parallel teaching in the second coming, that ends in the door being shut, and the words (I Know You Not)

There isnt any special interpretation, the 5 virgins were "Unsaved" at the second coming, it's that simple.

The event below is the "Second Coming" the day and hour no man knows, it's that simple

Matthew 25:11-13KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
 

ewq1938

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None of them are the bride in the parable. They are friends of the Bridegroom. This is a parable taken from the common custom of a Jewish Wedding celebration.

And in those customs the Groom comes for his bride (or brides). It was not against the law to marry more than one woman.
 

ewq1938

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but there is no 'extra oil' in the parable.
the foolish maidens had no oil ((Matthew 25:3)) -- not 'insufficient oil' but no oil at all.
Then how did their lamps go out if they didn't have any oil at all?

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.


it's a more difficult question for me to answer why the wise can't "share" their oil/Spirit. what does that mean?
It just means at that time it's too late to try to get oil. Those that have it need all they have, and going out to buy more ios useless because they had to be ready with the right amount of oil right at that time and the foolish didn't. They also were foolish from the beginning rather than becoming foolish.
 

ewq1938

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i agree here, i think this is clear:

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His
(Romans 8:9)

Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them
(Matthew 25:3)

i think the 5 foolish virgins represent those who outwardly act like 'christians' but do not have the Spirit. lamps with no oil.

This is also the same type of people:

Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Not enough oil, not enough earth. Same problem.
 

posthuman

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This is also the same type of people:

Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Not enough oil, not enough earth. Same problem.
should compare this too:

Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
(John 5:33-35)
He is speaking to pharisees trying to kill Him. they rejoiced in John's light for a time, but they did not have the Spirit i.e. no oil.
in this parable God makes a distinction between having a lamp and having oil -- that can't be overlooked.

these Jews trying to kill Christ - do they have 'a little bit of the Holy Ghost' but not **enough** ? they have a lamp, John, and they have his light - but they don't have what they need.
 

ewq1938

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This is an image from a real Jewish clay lamp common from the time.
View attachment 227030



Imagine a small clay jar only the size for one lamp refill.


This is correct. The wise had a lamp that had oil plus they brought an oil container. The foolish only had a lamp with some oil and it was lighted but they didn't have the oil container.

What you were supposed to do is to have enough oil to fill a lamp to the fullest as possible, light it and you had a nightlight for the entire night. The foolish didn't do this because they were fools. Lamp fools. Unprofessional lamp operators.