Five Foolish Virgins VS Five Wise Virgins

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B

Blackpowderduelist

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They wouldn't have been there at all if they didn't care nor would they have rushed out late at night to buy oil. I maintain these are Christians that ran out of truth or faith etc when the darkness of the Great Tribulation happened and they are the ones who commit Apostasy.
Not necessarily true. There are many in the churches who go for friendship and tradition but know nothing of God nor do they care.
Maybe it's all the above because it could be that your right.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You now have Jesus Christ running a Laundromat, Does That Come With A Free Press Toooooo o_O
this is accurate. @Absolutely is right about that, tho i'm more in agreement with you than him about the 10 maidens; i think the foolish virgins are not saved; they do not have the Spirit and they never had the Spirit. they are looking to 'buy' the Spirit when Christ comes. can the Spirit be bought lol??

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you
(John 15:3)
He indeed washes us.

I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight
(Isaiah 45:2)
He indeed irons out the wrinkles for us.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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I do not think 10 ( the number itself) is significant.
I believe 50 % is.
It is the same percentage as " one taken" a few sentences before.

The message is 50 % went.
ah, bro both are significant. God doesn't put arbitrary numbers.
but it'd be useful to find, where else do we have half separated from another half, and where else do we have 10?
that's a lot of connected scripture -- which we ought to expect, that this is not simple. that we could spend years looking at this without finding everything
 

posthuman

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The parable of the wedding supper has one guy wandering around with no garment.

He becomes ashamed.

No hypocrites allowed.
God hates a hypocrite.

When he comes, we will either worship or repent.

The repenters are not going in the rapture.
in the parable of the wedding feast it's poor, lame and destitute people found in the streets & compelled by the servants of the Master who are seated at the feast. where do poor destitute people get special wedding garments? beggars have special ceremonial clothes for weddings with them when they are snatched up by the messengers of the Master? nope. they are given garments when they enter through the door. so the one who was found without the wedding garment did not go through the door, but 'crept in some other way' -- a liar and a thief. he was never supposed to be there; he did not enter through THE GATE. a wolf among the sheep, a goat.
 

posthuman

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The 5 foolish virgins were "unsaved" (I Know You Not), it's that simple

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
i agree here, i think this is clear:

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His
(Romans 8:9)

Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them
(Matthew 25:3)

i think the 5 foolish virgins represent those who outwardly act like 'christians' but do not have the Spirit. lamps with no oil.
 

posthuman

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What does it mean to have extra oil? Watch and pray. To be saved? No we are saved while we are watching and praying. But even if it does not fit into the "not by works" mentality of the reformed there is something in this parable that does warn us to always watch and pray and rather than argue with those who want to figure out the mind of the sovereign God I would rather just know that I am saved and watch and pray and stay alert also. I don't care if someone accuses me of believing in salvation by works, I know better, and I am going to be sober, and vigilant and watch and pray and hate sin and not think I can dabble with it and still go to heaven.
what does it mean that none of them were vigilant as you describe?

But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
(Matthew 25:5)
yet they all awoke when the Groom came. a bit reminiscent of the disciples sleeping in the garden while Christ prayed for them, John 17, eh? but Judas was awake that whole time, hmm..

anyway here in this parable, the difference wasn't being up and awake. the difference was having oil or not. ;)
 

posthuman

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You can't buy anything that is necessary to be in the procession with Christ and enter His Kingdom from dealers.
This is evidence that the parable isn't an allegory. Not everything on the story represents something else in reality.
the moral of the story they were not there when the bridegroom arrived, and were locked out. Because they were not prepared for a long wait.
agreed that the Spirit cannot be bought.

but all parables are allegorical. that's the whole point of them being parables; the meaning is hidden. Jesus is saying that the kingdom is 'like' this -- i.e. the parable is allegorical of the kingdom; the elements of this story are representative of elements of the kingdom. i do not believe that Christ puts arbitrary elements into this; i believe every single thing here is significant -- but has to be understood correctly. yes we can go '
too far' and have wrong interpretation, but it's wrong to dismiss any of it as irrelevant. God would not have said it if it was meaningless. if that makes sense?

so when the 5 wise virgins say, go buy oil -- they are wise. are they saying do something foolish? are they being sarcastic?
we have to sort out whether they are suggesting the foolish virgins do something evil, or whether they are suggesting they go do something good, but there was no time left in which to do it.
 

posthuman

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They wouldn't have been there at all if they didn't care nor would they have rushed out late at night to buy oil. I maintain these are Christians that ran out of truth or faith etc when the darkness of the Great Tribulation happened and they are the ones who commit Apostasy.
but they didn't "run out" they didn't have any to begin with.

Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them
(Matthew 25:3)
that's not 'took insufficient amount of oil with them'
that's '
took no oil with them'
 

posthuman

Senior Member
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The Virgin always = the saved Christan
no, friend. not always.

You will rejoice no more,
O you oppressed virgin daughter of Sidon.
Arise, cross over to Cyprus;
There also you will have no rest!
(Isaiah 23:12)
Come down and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon;
Sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans!
For you shall no more be called Tender and delicate.
(Isaiah 47:1)
here are two witnesses of judgement against wicked virgins.
a virgin has the appearance of righteousness, but true righteousness is a matter of the heart, not of works. righteousness can be '
faked' -- the whitewashing of a tomb. it is able to deceive people, but not God, Who alone searches the heart.
 

Platosgal

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
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This is from Dr J MacArthur and Ligioner Ministries
Its a good explanation that works in cobtext
Coram Deo
We cannot trust in the spiritual readiness of others. Being ready to enter the kingdom at our Lord’s return or, should He tarry, to remain faithful when our rescue seems long in coming is something that we are responsible for as individuals. We must see that our lamps are being fed — that we are continually growing in the love of God and service to others. Otherwise our oil will run out and we will be revealed as foolish and faithless.
 

posthuman

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Christ was speaking to a multitude of people. His words were delivered for them to hear and understand. It was in the mix of other parables. There wasn’t some hidden complex meaning they had to extrude and analyze. The message is simple:

“Be ready and prepared continually. Everyone is responsible for their own preparations. The judgement of acceptance will be swift, and permanent.”
oh no, m8, i disagree!

Christ spoke in parables so that some would not understand, but those to whom it is given to understand, would understand. that's specifically spelled out for us Matthew 13:10-17. He speaks in parables because it's not for everyone to hear and understand. His parables do have hidden and complex meanings. the Bible is not simple.

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
(Proverbs 1:22)
all ten of the virgins, both the wise and unwise, were sleeping. not even the wise ones were awake and keeping watch ((Matthew 25:5)). that's significant. there are no meaningless details here; this is an incredibly profound and complex teaching, as everything Christ says is.
watch therefore! He says -- and yet keeping watch is not sufficient in and of itself. without oil, it wouldn't benefit the 5 foolish ones to be awake looking for His appearing. but even sleeping, because the 5 wise had oil, they were ready. a cry went out and woke them all, both foolish and wise! ((Matthew 25:6))
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Maybe the 5 wise remained continually receiving the gift that God offered through his Son Jesus who gave the office of the ministry or the keys to the ministry to his apostle and there after to the pastors or shepards of the ministry. What are those gifts? What are those institutions? We call them sacraments, baptism, the Supper, and absolution.
So the five had regularly received those gifts of faith and the foolish neglected them.
 

posthuman

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The simon thingy is too simple to look so deeply into.
nothing in the Bible is simple!

it has superficial, true meaning -- 'do not steal' means don't steal, amen. but that is just the surface-level understanding; we should not stop there. why not steal? what's wrong with stealing? what does it mean to steal? how does Satan 'steal' ? from whom does he steal or attempt to steal?
the law is spiritual; the commandments have literal physical interpretations but they also have spiritual meaning and application.


same with Simon the sorcerer. yes, you can't buy spiritual gifts with money. but this is just scratching the surface of what this event means and why it is in the word of God. this is the word of Almighty Omnipotent God whose thoughts are beyond all human understanding -- there is a lifetime's worth of wisdom behind every single saying.

don't be satisfied with the simple!!! and don't for a moment imagine that the simple, superficial reading is all that's there!
 

posthuman

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This is from Dr J MacArthur and Ligioner Ministries
Its a good explanation that works in cobtext
Coram Deo
We cannot trust in the spiritual readiness of others. Being ready to enter the kingdom at our Lord’s return or, should He tarry, to remain faithful when our rescue seems long in coming is something that we are responsible for as individuals. We must see that our lamps are being fed — that we are continually growing in the love of God and service to others. Otherwise our oil will run out and we will be revealed as foolish and faithless.
yes abide in the True Vine -- but i don't like the way MacArthur phrases this. the gift of God doesn't "run out" -- the one who drinks from the water He gives, thirsts no more; the one who eats His bread never hungers again.

God satisfies -- if we receive something that only makes us want more, because it disappears over time, it's not the true manna.

let's not have a faith that wavers, that needs refreshing, that withers away because the soil is poor or fails because we walk through a valley, but a faith that endures ;)
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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There is not a ghost of a hint that the 5 foolish get to lay down their lives for the Lord and go to heaven. Not a ghost of a hint.
The whole there will be Weeping and Gnashing of teeth point to TROUBLES. And I can show y there is evidence, you just can't comprehend it or haven't understood it as such.

In Rev. 1 we see Jesus in all His Glory (the things which ye HAVE SEEN). In Rev. 2 and 3 we see the Church Age (the things WHICH ARE). In Rev. 4:1 we see the Rapture (followed by the things which will be HEREAFTER).

So, the question is does God call people (the Virgins are people) to Repent AFTER the Rapture in Rev. 4:1 and the answer is of course He does, as can be seen throughout the book of Revelation. So, the Church/Bride is in Heaven marrying the Lamb, the 1/3(Zechariah (13:8-9) of the Jews who repent just before the 1260 DOTL Event is THE WOMAN in Rev. 12 and thus she can't be THE REMNANT in Rev. 12 that Satan turns to go after because she is the woman (Israel who repents) that he can't get at via the Anti-Christ. The 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent and will thus perish (Zechariah 13:8-9) therefore can't be THE REMNANT either, because they do not have the Testimony of Jesus Christ, so this REMNANT can only be the Gentile Church Remnant ON EARTH while the Church/Bride is in Heaven, marrying the Lamb. Thus those who Repent after the Rapture do indeed come unto the Lord, as a matter of fact, they are the Martyrs seen under the 5th Seal, these ones right here as judged in Rev. 20:4...........

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So who do you think THEY are? People who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast are new converts, even the ones who stated they were Christians but were not before the Rapture because they did not have the Hooly Spirit living in them. Even Satan believes and trembles, we must have the Holy Spirit living in us in order to make it unto Heaven.

3-5 million Jews REPENT during the 70th week. The Martyrs are Gentile Martyrs, all these are saved by God AFTER the Rapture of the Church, during the 70th week. In Rev. 14 we see an Angel preaching REPENTANCE. (SEE BELOW)

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

So, what is PREACHING all about? To get people (Human beings) to REPENT. And we that in Rev. 6 via the 5th Seal Martyrs and in Revelation 20:4 via the Martyrs who live and reign with Christ for 1000 years after not having made the Rapture, they must be the Gentile Remnant, because they can't be Jews. The WOMAN is protected by God and no one can get at her, and the 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent will perish, so THE REMNANT can't be Jewish peoples, it can only be the Gentile Remnant Church on earth, after the Rapture, thus its a REMNANT on earth whilst the Church is in Heaven.

Who do you think is the REMNANT that Repents? Its not going to be the Wicked Libs who LOVE EVIL Sir, its going to be those men who professes to be Christians but had FAILED in their walk, they are the most likely people to REPENT, not all will, a lot will take the Mark of the Beast like a weakling, but I see those REPENTING way before these Liberl Atheists. So, of course those who professed to be Christians bit were found wanting will be far more likely to REPENT and become Martyrs than the others in the world. I image a lot will be Muslims who finally see the Light also.
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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no, friend. not always.

You will rejoice no more,
O you oppressed virgin daughter of Sidon.
Arise, cross over to Cyprus;
There also you will have no rest!
(Isaiah 23:12)
Come down and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon;
Sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans!
For you shall no more be called Tender and delicate.
(Isaiah 47:1)
here are two witnesses of judgement against wicked virgins.
a virgin has the appearance of righteousness, but true righteousness is a matter of the heart, not of works. righteousness can be '
faked' -- the whitewashing of a tomb. it is able to deceive people, but not God, Who alone searches the heart.
This is a very bad comparison, one is a virgin God the other is a virgin of Babylon. Ones of God ones of evil, so NO VIRGIN of God is ever considered evil per se, and no virgin of evil is ever considered a Christian. Of course, we are talking about a VIRGIN OF GOD, why would anyone think we were talking about a VIRGIN OF EVIL?
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
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Your claim is false, the five foolish virgins weren't part of Christendom

You arent saved unless your sealed by the Holy Spirit, and this seal is until the day of redemption Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


The scripture is very clear, the five foolish virgins were never saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, the Lord never knew them "Unsaved"

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
You clearly lack discerning knowledge brother. The Wedding in Heaven is what they have been locked out of, on earth the Jewish Wedding custom was if you didn't make the wedding on time it was SHUT UP and no other people were allowed in. So, you had to be prepared when the Shofar was sounded. The Day of Redemption is not the Rapture per se, the Church is Judged in Heaven, but God raises up the Martyrs AFTER Jesus' return and the Jews are raised up after Jesus' return also, see Dan. 12:1-2 and Rev. 20:4

So you are right, the Wedding will not be opened up, but Jesus will return to earth, and those who laid down their lives instead of taking the Mark of the Beast will be accepted as of God, that is why Jesus shows them under the 5th Sea as being of God. The problem you have is you don't understand the Rapture and the Second Coming are two different events, I only point this out to show why your concept gets bogged down in wrong think. Of course, since you wrongly see the VERY END as the Rapture you are not going to understand that the Marriage takes place BEFORE the Second Coming, thus you have no chance of getting it right via that concept. Why do you think they are called Virgins brother? Thee same reason the 144, 000 are (which is 3-5 million Jews who repent), they are Virgins dedicated unto God, but these Virgins took a wrong path, we are told we must run the full race, we are told we must endure until the very end. They half stepped, thus many will be in the Tribulation (this WEEPING and GNASHING of teeth).

God Bless.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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This is a very bad comparison, one is a virgin God the other is a virgin of Babylon. Ones of God ones of evil, so NO VIRGIN of God is ever considered evil per se, and no virgin of evil is ever considered a Christian. Of course, we are talking about a VIRGIN OF GOD, why would anyone think we were talking about a VIRGIN OF EVIL?
The point is that being a "virgin" in scripture does not always mean a saved Christian believer, like you had said it does.

So i have proven that it is unsound reasoning to say all 10 in this parable are saved just because they are all called virgins.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Those rejected face (Eternal Judgement)

Revelation 14:14-18 below is nothing more than the (Harvest/Resurrection) at the (Second Coming) end of this world, as Matthew 13:37-43 shows this in parable with a full explanation

Second Coming, Angel's Harvest, End Of The World

the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Same Event, Harvest/Resurrection, End Of The World.

Revelation 14:14-18KJV
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Matthew 13:37-43KJV
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The 5 foolish are believers.
Factor that in.
The whole there will be Weeping and Gnashing of teeth point to TROUBLES. And I can show y there is evidence, you just can't comprehend it or haven't understood it as such.

In Rev. 1 we see Jesus in all His Glory (the things which ye HAVE SEEN). In Rev. 2 and 3 we see the Church Age (the things WHICH ARE). In Rev. 4:1 we see the Rapture (followed by the things which will be HEREAFTER).

So, the question is does God call people (the Virgins are people) to Repent AFTER the Rapture in Rev. 4:1 and the answer is of course He does, as can be seen throughout the book of Revelation. So, the Church/Bride is in Heaven marrying the Lamb, the 1/3(Zechariah (13:8-9) of the Jews who repent just before the 1260 DOTL Event is THE WOMAN in Rev. 12 and thus she can't be THE REMNANT in Rev. 12 that Satan turns to go after because she is the woman (Israel who repents) that he can't get at via the Anti-Christ. The 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent and will thus perish (Zechariah 13:8-9) therefore can't be THE REMNANT either, because they do not have the Testimony of Jesus Christ, so this REMNANT can only be the Gentile Church Remnant ON EARTH while the Church/Bride is in Heaven, marrying the Lamb. Thus those who Repent after the Rapture do indeed come unto the Lord, as a matter of fact, they are the Martyrs seen under the 5th Seal, these ones right here as judged in Rev. 20:4...........

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So who do you think THEY are? People who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast are new converts, even the ones who stated they were Christians but were not before the Rapture because they did not have the Hooly Spirit living in them. Even Satan believes and trembles, we must have the Holy Spirit living in us in order to make it unto Heaven.

3-5 million Jews REPENT during the 70th week. The Martyrs are Gentile Martyrs, all these are saved by God AFTER the Rapture of the Church, during the 70th week. In Rev. 14 we see an Angel preaching REPENTANCE. (SEE BELOW)

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

So, what is PREACHING all about? To get people (Human beings) to REPENT. And we that in Rev. 6 via the 5th Seal Martyrs and in Revelation 20:4 via the Martyrs who live and reign with Christ for 1000 years after not having made the Rapture, they must be the Gentile Remnant, because they can't be Jews. The WOMAN is protected by God and no one can get at her, and the 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent will perish, so THE REMNANT can't be Jewish peoples, it can only be the Gentile Remnant Church on earth, after the Rapture, thus its a REMNANT on earth whilst the Church is in Heaven.

Who do you think is the REMNANT that Repents? Its not going to be the Wicked Libs who LOVE EVIL Sir, its going to be those men who professes to be Christians but had FAILED in their walk, they are the most likely people to REPENT, not all will, a lot will take the Mark of the Beast like a weakling, but I see those REPENTING way before these Liberl Atheists. So, of course those who professed to be Christians bit were found wanting will be far more likely to REPENT and become Martyrs than the others in the world. I image a lot will be Muslims who finally see the Light also.
Those left behind will be in that realm.

Jesus said " pray that you may be counted worthy to ESCAPE THE THINGS ABOUT TO COME upon the world..."

There will br great great sorrow at the beheading of millions of believers left behind and slaughtered in the gt. Weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is postribs that say the tribulation is great darkness.


Jesus said " because you have kept my word i will keep you from the hour of trial about to come upon the world"

Postrib rapturists need to factor in all the dynamics.
i agree here, i think this is clear:

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His
(Romans 8:9)
Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them
(Matthew 25:3)
i think the 5 foolish virgins represent those who outwardly act like 'christians' but do not have the Spirit. lamps with no oil.
they had oil.
It got lower and lower.
Then it ran out.

Most believers are carnal.
Low oil.