Five Foolish Virgins VS Five Wise Virgins

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Lafftur

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Slow down on the pride accusation lest you be guilty of pride of ignorance. :) There is not a debate about this. The Jewish custom of the friends of the young female unmarried friends of the Bridegroom waiting in a location to join the procession with lamps lit is a known custom and all young unmarried females were called virgins. It was what they were called. We must look it in the culture of the times. People are making too much of the word virgin not realizing that all unmarried young women were assumed to be virgins in ancient near east Jewish culture.

People in this thread that keep assuming that the 10 virgins are 10 brides about to be married by one man are making a mistake based on lack of reading on the subject of Jewish wedding customs. This custom has been written about for thousands of years and I don't understand why they are so confused about it, or can't find the resources necessary to educate themselves.

It is a good example of how easy strange teachings get started based on lack of background information and a good reason people should read commentaries and other Bible helps that fill in background information that the writers of the bible assumed their audience would know since these customs were familiar to the hearers.

The Bride did not wait for the Groom with the need to come out with a lamp lit. That was not part of the custom. That custom was for those entering into the procession. The Bride was not required to have a lit lamp. But anyone can read commentaries and books and learn this. Don't go making up allegorical meanings based on erroneous reasonings and say that the Spirit showed it to you or you will have to confess that you were wrong when you find out about the known custom of the young unmarried female friends of the Bridegroom who waiting in one location together were never with the actual Bride who was in another location. :)
Hello @Scribe

I agree that it is important to understand the "earthly" cultures and times surrounding the parables that Jesus taught but, remember He would speak in parables to hide spiritual truths from the proud and reveal them to babes because understanding of God's Word is only given by the Holy Spirit.

The MAIN point of the parable of the 10 virgins is to be ready at the Lord's return and the only way to be ready is to have oil in our lamp which is the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

You and I may continue to disagree but, I also know you and I are also mature and walk in love towards each other. I do NOT consider you prideful, I just want to encourage you to rely more on the Holy Spirit.

Look at all the studying and application that Paul did as Saul, yet his encounter with Jesus Christ and being filled with the Holy Spirit.......changed everything he had learned as a Pharisee. :love:(y)
 

Lafftur

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i established in post #189 that being described as "virgin" in scripture does not necessarily mean "believers" -- sometimes the wicked are also called "virgins" even while their judgement and condemnation is being pronounced.

God calls these virgins "fools" -- that's never a good thing
Hello @posthuman

I read your post #189. I liked it.

I agree that being called "foolish" by God is not good. Yet, all ten were virgins (five foolish and five wise) and what separated them was being ready with oil.

In the parable Jesus is speaking of the Kingdom of Heaven not false gods or idols. There are many true Believers that are foolish because they neglect, quench or grieve the Holy Spirit and there are many that are wise and stir up and rely on the Holy Spirit.
 

Lafftur

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if this were the case then there are two churches, or there are believers who are not part of the church.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
(Ephesians 5:25-27)
that's "the" church, singular, who is "the bride" singular and who is washed and sanctified and cleansed.
that's "
the bride" for whom Christ gave Himself, and it is for the purpose of being betrothed that He did this, and washed away her sin.

so in your scenario wouldn't you have people who are saved but Christ didn't die for them, Christ didn't wash away their sins, and Christ didn't sanctify them?
No, the scenario you describe is NOT what I am saying.

Out of the world of darkness, Jesus is given Believers, out of the Believers, Jesus is given His Bride. All true Believers are saved but, not all true Believers are the Bride. If a true Believer wants to be in the Bride, he/she needs to overcome the 7 letters that Jesus told John to write to the 7 churches in Revelations.

I know what I am saying is very upsetting to many but, it is true.
 

Lafftur

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no she's saying there are "super-Christians" who get to be part of the Bride, that God loves more than mere "regular Christians" who only get to spectate at the wedding. apparently in this view the saved who are saved-but-not-special don't live with Christ in eternity like the Bride ((the especially Christian Christians)) does.
I NEVER said what you are saying that I said. :rolleyes:
 

posthuman

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I NEVER said what you are saying that I said. :rolleyes:
but it is exactly what you're saying, because you are saying Christ will not betroth Himself to 'regular Christians' only those special ones that have enough lasting love.
so He'll save them, but He won't marry them. He won't be one with them. they can come to heaven but they won't be His beloved. they get to spend eternity wishing He had chosen them, i guess.

because what about you -- you want to be His wife, don't you?
now imagine you're not. imagine He gives you eternal life but you're shut out and He tells you He doesn't know you. so there you are, saved, and shut out, and He is denying you. how do you feel about that? you going to have any regrets? you going to have any envy?

i suspect it's easier for you to say this about others than it is to consider yourself in that situation.
 

Lafftur

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If God’s chosen ones could be deceived in such a way, God’s choice of them would be defeated, and that is not possible. All who are in Christ have been predestined, called, justified, and will eventually be glorified (Romans 8:30). They have been given to Christ; and of all those who have been given to Him, He will lose none (John 10:28). source
yes the crowns are worthy vs unworthy ( rewards)

Jesus said " pray that you may be counted worthy..."
(Speaking to believers, of the rapture)

Jesus said " because you have kept my word i will keep you from the hour of testing..."

So it is bible that some will be unworthy and miss out on several things.
The question is, can any saved miss out on being joined eternally with Christ?

Because not being wed to Him sounds just like that.
All true Believers are saved IN CHRIST and with Him for all eternity. However, don't the 12 Apostles have a special place with Christ in the foundation? Yet, ALL are in the Kingdom of Heaven WITH Christ.

Not everyone receives a martyrs crown.... only the martyrs.

We know and believe that salvation is a gift and Jesus Christ did ALL that was necessary for us. However, in the 7 letters to the 7 churches written to the Bride - instructions are given that she is to overcome and the very first thing is she must always maintain First Love for Jesus Christ.

If these truths are hidden, then they are hidden. No worries, just keep loving Jesus!! :love:(y)
 

Lafftur

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so in your opinion Jesus is the kind of guy who would call off a wedding to His beloved betrothed bride because she was at the store buying something for Him, when He came by her house unannounced looking for her?

He laid down His life for her, but if she doesn't text back within 20 seconds at midnight, bye bye bye??
Oh @posthuman

I love your sense of humor! lol! :giggle::love:(y)
 

Lafftur

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but it is exactly what you're saying, because you are saying Christ will not betroth Himself to 'regular Christians' only those special ones that have enough lasting love.
so He'll save them, but He won't marry them. He won't be one with them. they can come to heaven but they won't be His beloved. they get to spend eternity wishing He had chosen them, i guess.

because what about you -- you want to be His wife, don't you?
now imagine you're not. imagine He gives you eternal life but you're shut out and He tells you He doesn't know you. so there you are, saved, and shut out, and He is denying you. how do you feel about that? you going to have any regrets? you going to have any envy?

i suspect it's easier for you to say this about others than it is to consider yourself in that situation.
Oh @posthuman

With humility and great love, just being a doorkeeper in the Lord's house is absolutely FABULOUS!!! Hallelujah!!! :love:(y)
 

Truth7t7

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Jesus is speaking of the Kingdom of God/Heaven not "earthly" things. The 10 virgins are saved Believers - they are clean from the world in Christ and have not committed adultery with the false gods/religions of the world.

The dividing line between the foolish virgins and the wise is great passionate LOVE for God. Remember when the prostitute washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried them with her hair....her sins were forgiven and her love was great for Jesus, whereas Simon was critical of her and Jesus.

Jesus told a story to Simon of two debtors...and it was the one with the greater debt that loved Him the most.

Love is a dividing line.
We Will Disagree :)

The 5 foolish virgins were never (Saved) and (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit, this is a Seal unto the day Redemption

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The 5 foolish virgins were "unsaved" (I Know You Not), it's that simple

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
 

posthuman

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Oh @posthuman

With humility and great love, just being a doorkeeper in the Lord's house is absolutely FABULOUS!!! Hallelujah!!! :love:(y)
doesn't God know even His janitor by name? He knows every sparrow and numbers every hair on your head -- so why would i believe that someone He says "truly I tell you, I do not know you" and shuts the door in their face, is in His kingdom?

God casting someone out of His Kingdom does not equal salvation. it equals damnation.
 

Lafftur

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We Will Disagree :)

The 5 foolish virgins were never (Saved) and (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit, this is a Seal unto the day Redemption

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The 5 foolish virgins were "unsaved" (I Know You Not), it's that simple

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
I agree that we will disagree and still walk in love towards each other. :love:(y)
 

Lafftur

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doesn't God know even His janitor by name? He knows every sparrow and numbers every hair on your head -- so why would i believe that someone He says "truly I tell you, I do not know you" and shuts the door in their face, is in His kingdom?

God casting someone out of His Kingdom does not equal salvation. it equals damnation.
They were not ready at His return because they had no oil - their lamp had no light. Yet, He did not say they were thrown into the lake of fire.....He did not speak of damnation...just not allowed to enter the marriage.
 

posthuman

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They were not ready at His return because they had no oil - their lamp had no light. Yet, He did not say they were thrown into the lake of fire.....He did not speak of damnation...just not allowed to enter the marriage.
in other parables when someone is locked on the outside what does it mean? it's never a good thing. the foolish virgins are cut off from his presence, Matthew 25:10-11.

the next parable -- the wicked servant cast outside into darkness, Matthew 25:30
the after that -- the cursed & condemned depart from His presence, Matthew 25:41. the unrighteous: go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46.


that's 4 times in this single chapter Jesus talks about people cut off from His presence. He calls them foolish, cursed, condemned, eternally punished, wicked, evil, and in company with the Devil and his angels.
why should i consider them saved?


because they were in the household of the Bride? we know that the church is full of false teachers, fake believers, wolves, tares, serpents and goats. Jesus talks again and again and again about not being deceived by them and tells us over and over that in the judgement they will be separated from those who are truly His. separated and cast out, separated and shut out, separated and driven away, separated and the door shut to them. He doesn't know them and they don't know Him. there are lots of unsaved people in the church. lots of unsaved people in the household of the Bride.

that's not talking about saved people. people who are cast out from Him are not saved, 1 John 2:19. people who do not have the Spirit are not saved, Romans 8:9. people without love for Him are not saved, 1 Corinthians 16:22. the fools that says in their heart there is no god are not saved, Psalm 14:1.

we have foolish virgins with no oil with no love with no knowledge of God shut out of God's presence. we have 3 more times in the same chapter saying those same kinds of people are going to eternal damnation. that's not 'in heaven but 2nd class to the super-Christians' --- that's in the lake of fire. weeping and gnashing of teeth outside in darkness, with no love, no Spirit, no oil and no friendship with the Master; only a burned out lamp, a locked door and eternal regret.
 

Lafftur

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in other parables when someone is locked on the outside what does it mean? it's never a good thing. the foolish virgins are cut off from his presence, Matthew 25:10-11.


No, the 5 foolish virgins are cut off from the marriage but, not His presence because they can communicate with Him. He opened the door to speak with them. He heard them and answered, “I do not know you,” because there was NO LOVE....Love is the key to know God ......Selah. First, I must recognize my need for love.

the next parable -- the wicked servant cast outside into darkness, Matthew 25:30
the after that -- the cursed & condemned depart from His presence, Matthew 25:41. the unrighteous: go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46.
Yes, I understand that all of these that are cursed, punished or cut off from His presence because they have NO LOVE for Him but, do you see the progression from virgin to servent with fear of talents...Jesus is showing a progression of how far we could fall...

that's 4 times in this single chapter Jesus talks about people cut off from His presence. He calls them foolish, cursed, condemned, eternally punished, wicked, evil, and in company with the Devil and his angels.
why should i consider them saved?
At this point, who cares?! The entrance is narrow. Our love for God will be tested, it is the Baptism with Fire - the last of the 3 baptisms we must go through. If anyone makes it this far, they’ve made it through the water baptism, the baptism with the Holy Spirit and are now in the Fire baptism that puts their love for God to the test.

because they were in the household of the Bride? we know that the church is full of false teachers, fake believers, wolves, tares, serpents and goats. Jesus talks again and again and again about not being deceived by them and tells us over and over that in the judgement they will be separated from those who are truly His. separated and cast out, separated and shut out, separated and driven away, separated and the door shut to them. He doesn't know them and they don't know Him. there are lots of unsaved people in the church. lots of unsaved people in the household of the Bride.
True, and very sad.

that's not talking about saved people. people who are cast out from Him are not saved, 1 John 2:19. people who do not have the Spirit are not saved, Romans 8:9. people without love for Him are not saved, 1 Corinthians 16:22. the fools that says in their heart there is no god are not saved, Psalm 14:1.

Yet, I understand and I do believe that He patiently waits for the fruit of Love to appear in our hearts for Him.


we have foolish virgins with no oil with no love with no knowledge of God shut out of God's presence. we have 3 more times in the same chapter saying those same kinds of people are going to eternal damnation. that's not 'in heaven but 2nd class to the super-Christians' --- that's in the lake of fire. weeping and gnashing of teeth outside in darkness, with no love, no Spirit, no oil and no friendship with the Master; only a burned out lamp, a locked door and eternal regret.

Despite all of our and the world’s rebellion, His Love, Blood and Body can save, heal and deliver us from this world in the Name of Jesus Christ, amen.
 

Truth7t7

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No, the 5 foolish virgins are cut off from the marriage but, not His presence because they can communicate with Him. He opened the door to speak with them. He heard them and answered, “I do not know you,” because there was NO LOVE....Love is the key to know God ......Selah. First, I must recognize my need for love.



Yes, I understand that all of these that are cursed, punished or cut off from His presence because they have NO LOVE for Him but, do you see the progression from virgin to servent with fear of talents...Jesus is showing a progression of how far we could fall...



At this point, who cares?! The entrance is narrow. Our love for God will be tested, it is the Baptism with Fire - the last of the 3 baptisms we must go through. If anyone makes it this far, they’ve made it through the water baptism, the baptism with the Holy Spirit and are now in the Fire baptism that puts their love for God to the test.



True, and very sad.



Yet, I understand and I do believe that He patiently waits for the fruit of Love to appear in our hearts for Him.



Despite all of our and the world’s rebellion, His Love, Blood and Body can save, heal and deliver us from this world in the Name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Do you believe in hell, the lake of fire and eternal torment of the wicked?

Do you believe in the Roman Catholic purgatory, a place of limbo upon death?
 

Absolutely

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Matthew 22:1 Once again, Jesus spoke to them in parables: 2 “The kingdom
of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent
his servants to call those he had invited to the banquet, but they refused to come.


4 Again, he sent other servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my
dinner. My oxen and fattened cattle have been killed, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’


5 But they paid no attention and went away, one to his field, another to his
business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them, and killed them.


7 The king was enraged, and he sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.
8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited were not worthy.
9 Go therefore to the crossroads and invite to the banquet as many as you can find.’


10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered everyone they could find,
both evil and good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.


11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he spotted a man who was not dressed
in wedding clothes. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’


But the man was speechless.

13 Then the king told the servants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him into
the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Hypocrites are not welcome.

No wedding garment.

The innumerable number washed their robes in the blood.
 

Absolutely

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No, the 5 foolish virgins are cut off from the marriage but, not His presence because they can communicate with Him. He opened the door to speak with them. He heard them and answered, “I do not know you,” because there was NO LOVE....Love is the key to know God ......Selah. First, I must recognize my need for love.



Yes, I understand that all of these that are cursed, punished or cut off from His presence because they have NO LOVE for Him but, do you see the progression from virgin to servent with fear of talents...Jesus is showing a progression of how far we could fall...



At this point, who cares?! The entrance is narrow. Our love for God will be tested, it is the Baptism with Fire - the last of the 3 baptisms we must go through. If anyone makes it this far, they’ve made it through the water baptism, the baptism with the Holy Spirit and are now in the Fire baptism that puts their love for God to the test.



True, and very sad.



Yet, I understand and I do believe that He patiently waits for the fruit of Love to appear in our hearts for Him.



Despite all of our and the world’s rebellion, His Love, Blood and Body can save, heal and deliver us from this world in the Name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Agreed

There is another dimension to " I know you not"

"Know" is also used to denote intimacy "

"... For Mary had not KNOWN a man""
Meaning ....?

She had no male friends?

Nope...intimacy.

The foolish had no intimacy.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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in other parables when someone is locked on the outside what does it mean? it's never a good thing. the foolish virgins are cut off from his presence, Matthew 25:10-11.

the next parable -- the wicked servant cast outside into darkness, Matthew 25:30
the after that -- the cursed & condemned depart from His presence, Matthew 25:41. the unrighteous: go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46.


that's 4 times in this single chapter Jesus talks about people cut off from His presence. He calls them foolish, cursed, condemned, eternally punished, wicked, evil, and in company with the Devil and his angels.
why should i consider them saved?


because they were in the household of the Bride? we know that the church is full of false teachers, fake believers, wolves, tares, serpents and goats. Jesus talks again and again and again about not being deceived by them and tells us over and over that in the judgement they will be separated from those who are truly His. separated and cast out, separated and shut out, separated and driven away, separated and the door shut to them. He doesn't know them and they don't know Him. there are lots of unsaved people in the church. lots of unsaved people in the household of the Bride.

that's not talking about saved people. people who are cast out from Him are not saved, 1 John 2:19. people who do not have the Spirit are not saved, Romans 8:9. people without love for Him are not saved, 1 Corinthians 16:22. the fools that says in their heart there is no god are not saved, Psalm 14:1.

we have foolish virgins with no oil with no love with no knowledge of God shut out of God's presence. we have 3 more times in the same chapter saying those same kinds of people are going to eternal damnation. that's not 'in heaven but 2nd class to the super-Christians' --- that's in the lake of fire. weeping and gnashing of teeth outside in darkness, with no love, no Spirit, no oil and no friendship with the Master; only a burned out lamp, a locked door and eternal regret.
"""we have foolish virgins with no oil with no love with no knowledge of God shut out of God's presence. we have 3 more times in the same chapter saying those same kinds of people are going to eternal damnation. that's not 'in heaven but 2nd class to the super-Christians' --- that's in the lake of fire. weeping and gnashing of teeth outside in darkness, with no love, no Spirit, no oil and no friendship with the Master; only a burned out lamp, a locked door and eternal regret."""

It only says prohibited from the wedding chamber.

They come in later as the innumerable number with washed robes.
 

posthuman

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"""we have foolish virgins with no oil with no love with no knowledge of God shut out of God's presence. we have 3 more times in the same chapter saying those same kinds of people are going to eternal damnation. that's not 'in heaven but 2nd class to the super-Christians' --- that's in the lake of fire. weeping and gnashing of teeth outside in darkness, with no love, no Spirit, no oil and no friendship with the Master; only a burned out lamp, a locked door and eternal regret."""

It only says prohibited from the wedding chamber.

They come in later as the innumerable number with washed robes.
It says shut out, it says foolish, and it says the Groom denies them.

None of those are consistent with descriptions of saved people; all of those are consistent with lost people.

The only things we have to go on to call them saved is that they are called virgins and that they were in the household of the Bride. But we've shown that neither of those are sufficient because the scripture calls damned people virgins sometimes and warns many times that there are imposters and apostates and wolves among the flock.

I see no good reason to think God is calling saved people foolish, denying them and locking them out of His presence. I see many good reasons to think He is saying this about the unsaved.