For those why deny the Deity of Jesus Christ.

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
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#41
I don't think it follows for Jesus to lose his deity in the separation Mag, he is deity and the Father is deity. It was just a temporary loss of "communion" so to speak.

When he cried out "why has thou forsaken me" the scripture was fulfilled.

Adam Clarke's commentary:

My God! My God! why hast thou forsaken me! - These words are quoted by our Lord from Psalm 22:1; they are of very great importance, and should be carefully considered.

Some suppose "that the divinity had now departed from Christ, and that his human nature was left unsupported to bear the punishment due to men for their sins." But this is by no means to be admitted, as it would deprive his sacrifice of its infinite merit, and consequently leave the sin of the world without an atonement. Take deity away from any redeeming act of Christ, and redemption is ruined.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/matthew-27.html

Exactly - "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, " 2 Cor 5:21
Thank you for explaining your view :) It does bring to mind the fact that if Jesus bore our punishment, He would be burning in hell to this day according to the incomprehensible beliefs of some, since they believe that is what the punishment is to be :p It is hard to fathom the lack of intelligence that allows some to say, "death is not a punishment." :censored:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
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#43
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth. Ps 31:5
All righty then! Say, if I was wrong about you rejecting the Deity of Christ, I do apologize. It may just be the Trinity you reject...
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#44
All righty then! Say, if I was wrong about you rejecting the Deity of Christ, I do apologize. It may just be the Trinity you reject...
my Father who is the Son is the Holy Ghost
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
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#45
my Father who is the Son is the Holy Ghost
My thumb is a finger opposing my fingers, and one with my hand which has five fingers working in unison, of which only four are fingers.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#46
Luke 1:35
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
KJV
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
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#49
Me so digital :giggle:

Jesus is Lord :)

John 1 (YLT)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;


2 this one was in the beginning with God;

3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.

4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men,

5 and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it. ...

14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
4,630
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#50
Luke 1:35
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
KJV
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
22,958
4,981
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#51
I don't think it follows for Jesus to lose his deity in the separation Mag, he is deity and the Father is deity. It was just a temporary loss of "communion" so to speak.

When he cried out "why has thou forsaken me" the scripture was fulfilled.

Adam Clarke's commentary:

My God! My God! why hast thou forsaken me! - These words are quoted by our Lord from Psalm 22:1; they are of very great importance, and should be carefully considered.

Some suppose "that the divinity had now departed from Christ, and that his human nature was left unsupported to bear the punishment due to men for their sins." But this is by no means to be admitted, as it would deprive his sacrifice of its infinite merit, and consequently leave the sin of the world without an atonement. Take deity away from any redeeming act of Christ, and redemption is ruined.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/matthew-27.html


Exactly - "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, " 2 Cor 5:21
Jesus never anywhere else called Him "My God" -- He speaks of Him constantly, and always "My Father"
i think the '
loss of communion' view has almost the same issue by implication that Clarke points out about the 'loss of divinity' view. did the Lord not know what was going to happen? did He not know why? hadn't He just spent the night at Gethsemane in prayer about all these things, and hadn't He been telling His disciples exactly this would happen? "why" is a profound thing for the Everlasting Father to say! when God asks a question, it's generally not because He doesn't know the answer.
Psalm 21-23 are a triptych, and in it we also find this:

Yea,
though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me;
Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.
(Psalm 23:4)
what are a shepherd's rod & staff used for?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
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#52
Jesus never anywhere else called Him "My God" -- He speaks of Him constantly, and always "My Father"
i think the '
loss of communion' view has almost the same issue by implication that Clarke points out about the 'loss of divinity' view. did the Lord not know what was going to happen? did He not know why? hadn't He just spent the night at Gethsemane in prayer about all these things, and hadn't He been telling His disciples exactly this would happen? "why" is a profound thing for the Everlasting Father to say! when God asks a question, it's generally not because He doesn't know the answer.
Psalm 21-23 are a triptych, and in it we also find this:

Yea,
though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me;
Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.
(Psalm 23:4)
what are a shepherd's rod & staff used for?
"I think the 'loss of communion' view has almost the same issue by implication that Clarke points out about the 'loss of divinity' view."

I don't agree Bones, if Christ only suffered physical death rather than both physical and spiritual death (separation from His Father) then we have something wrong in our understanding of the atonement.

We need to ask what did the atonement accomplish? If it was only to suffer physical death for every man "he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" Heb 2:9 then why do we as Christians die if the penalty for sin is only physical death?

There are only two answers really - the atonement was not sufficient to prevent the physical death of a Christian, or no Christian ever had enough faith for the atonement to be effective for each and every one of them

But if the atonement was to correct spiritual death (separation from God) then Christ also tasted that spiritual "death for every man".
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,294
149
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#53
Suppose I tell you the truth, would you buy it?



What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? James 2:14
What does this verse have to do with anything? And since you brought up James 2:14 suppose you reconcile what James said to what the Apostle Paul said at Ephesians 2:8,9? "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselvesk, it is the gift of God; vs9, NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS, that no one shoule boast."

Btw zmouth, if you do deny the deity of Jesus Christ can you please answer my original question of this thread. Thank You!

"Since some of you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ which also means He did not preexist His incarnation as a man I have a question? Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Sep 12, 2018
26
5
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#54
I don’t understand why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on your list of people who deny the deity of Jesus Christ. The very first article of faith states: 1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. God is three separate people unified in purpose. Do you believe differently than that?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
4,630
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#56
I don’t understand why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on your list of people who deny the deity of Jesus Christ. The very first article of faith states: 1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. God is three separate people unified in purpose. Do you believe differently than that?
Their first article of faith simply states: We believe in God the Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost. There is absolutely NOTHING in their articles of faith affirming the Deity of Jesus Christ. They deny Jesus as creator, making Him instead a "spirit brother" of Satan!

Mormons believe the following about God: He has not always been the Supreme Being of the universe (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321) but attained that status through righteous living and persistent effort (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

They believe God the Father has a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22).

Brigham Young taught that Adam actually was God and the father of Jesus Christ—although this teaching has been abandoned by modern Mormon leaders.

In contrast, Christians know this about God: there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6–8). He always has existed and always will exist (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17). He was not created but is the Creator (Genesis 1; Psalm 24:1; Isaiah 37:16). He is perfect, and no one else is equal to Him (Psalm 86:8; Isaiah 40:25). God the Father is not a man, nor was He ever (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Hosea 11:9). He is Spirit (John 4:24), and Spirit is not made of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39).

Mormons believe that there are different levels or kingdoms in the afterlife: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the telestial kingdom, and outer darkness (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348). Where mankind will end up depends on what they believe and do in this life (2 Nephi 25:23; Articles of Faith, p.79).

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

Contrary to this, Christians historically have taught that no one can achieve the status of God—only He is holy (1 Samuel 2:2). We can only be made holy in God's sight through faith in Him (1 Corinthians 1:2). Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16), is the only one ever to have lived a sinless life, and now has the highest place of honor in heaven (Hebrews 7:26). Jesus and God are one in essence, Jesus being the only man who existed before physical birth (John 1:1–8; 8:56). Jesus gave Himself to us as a sacrifice, God raised Him from the dead, and one day everyone will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Philippians 2:6–11). Jesus tells us it is impossible to get to heaven by our own works and that only by faith in Him is it possible (Matthew 19:26). We all deserve eternal punishment for our sins, but God's infinite love and grace have allowed us a way out. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

Excerpted from: https://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
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#57
I'm at a loss for words that there is not one person on these forums who denies the deity of Jesus Christ will not address the question I ask in this thread? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
they are not allowed to bluto or they get banned, you know this all to well.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,118
365
83
#58
To be a Christian you must believe in the diety of Jesus. So only Jews, atheists, and other religions reject him. So why would anyone like them come to this site?

Answer is they just want to push their lies about God and sow dissension here. Wolves in sheep's clothing!! As Jesus said you will know them by their fruit. Here that means their posts.
whats really strange is that back when Jesus was teaching, Jews did not reject what He taught. it was not until many years later that Jews overwhelmingly started to reject Christian teaching.
i have always wondered what it was that drove the Jews away from the faith?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
26,205
4,630
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#59
whats really strange is that back when Jesus was teaching, Jews did not reject what He taught. it was not until many years later that Jews overwhelmingly started to reject Christian teaching.
i have always wondered what it was that drove the Jews away from the faith?
Really? Wow. My Bible says the Jewish people had Jesus crucified... because they rejected His teachings.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,294
149
63
#60
they are not allowed to bluto or they get banned, you know this all to well.
Why would you get banned for answering a simple Biblical question like the following?

Since some of you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ which also means He did not preexist His incarnation as a man I have a question? Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer."

I mean these are discussion/apologetics boards where people are suppose to give an answser for their faith as to what they believe and why they believe it. (1 Peter 3:15). So if one denies the deity of Jesus Christ and any other Biblical teaching I would like to know why? 2 Corinthinans 5:11, "Therefore knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences." What say you jaybird? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto