Forgive Others or, You'll Go to Hell! (false doctrine)

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slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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Actually, I will say one more thing to you Jason

YOU did not start this thread. BUT you have seeded it with your heresy and taken it over

Yes, all eyes are now on Jason.....NOT Jesus and what HE has done for us

which brings me back to the reason I have stated I have put you on ignore and I surely wish everyone else would too

whatever purpose this thread had, whatever chance at discussing God's grace or forgiveness actually was availaible, has been snatched up by you and distorted into another one of your personal jason gospel opps

so sad...you KILL whatever other people might have to say and direct the thread into your own purposes and suck up all the air in the room

yuck

don't get confused and think I hate you either...I hate what you do though
I've heard people say that anger is just a natural response to pain. But if anger is natural then it sounds like its OK to be angry. It sounds like there is nothing wrong with being angry. But is that true? When I read Matt. 5:22, ..."But I say to you that EVERYONE who is angry with His or her brother will be liable to judgement."

Whoa..and the everyone stood out to me. That includes me and you.So if anger deserves God's Judgement it means it is wrong, right?!!

Paul continues; "Let bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice." Eph. 4:31.

Col. 3:8, also backs that up.

"Father help embers pain be taken unto yourself. Help us to be at peace with our brothers and sisters and Father let the Spirit of malice and slander be thwarted from all of your peoples hearts, in Jesus' name I pray --Amen."
 
E

ember

Guest
I've heard people say that anger is just a natural response to pain. But if anger is natural then it sounds like its OK to be angry. It sounds like there is nothing wrong with being angry. But is that true? When I read Matt. 5:22, ..."But I say to you that EVERYONE who is angry with His or her brother will be liable to judgement."

Whoa..and the everyone stood out to me. That includes me and you.So if anger deserves God's Judgement it means it is wrong, right?!!

Paul continues; "Let bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice." Eph. 4:31.

Col. 3:8, also backs that up.

"Father help embers pain be taken unto yourself. Help us to be at peace with our brothers and sisters and Father let the Spirit of malice and slander be thwarted from all of your peoples hearts, in Jesus' name I pray --Amen."
I am somewhat confused by your response to this post slave

first of all, there is no pain registered in that post...that may be your interpretation, but there is no pain

please do not try and tell me that God revealed that to you, because I find that manipulative...if that is not what you are saying then perhaps you might let me know why you are talking about pain and why God should take it away?

Perhaps you feel injured by reading a thread with so much false doctrine in it and perhaps you interpret my response and others response as anger. I just don't know so you could clarify where you are coming from because I do not know what your point actually is

There can be no peace when such false doctrine concerning the forgiveness of sin, the grace of God and our position in Christ is manipulated to make it seem like God is a cosmic chess player and we never know whether or not we are going to be kicked off the board

Perhaps you might enlighten us/me as to what you believe...your post was not rude...I do not understand what you are saying and I would appreciate clairification
 
Nov 14, 2012
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I've heard people say that anger is just a natural response to pain. But if anger is natural then it sounds like its OK to be angry. It sounds like there is nothing wrong with being angry. But is that true? When I read Matt. 5:22, ..."But I say to you that EVERYONE who is angry with His or her brother will be liable to judgement."

Whoa..and the everyone stood out to me. That includes me and you.So if anger deserves God's Judgement it means it is wrong, right?!!

Paul continues; "Let bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice." Eph. 4:31.

Col. 3:8, also backs that up.

"Father help embers pain be taken unto yourself. Help us to be at peace with our brothers and sisters and Father let the Spirit of malice and slander be thwarted from all of your peoples hearts, in Jesus' name I pray --Amen."
I know we have an example of righteous anger when Jesus overturned the tables at the temple. His anger was justified
 
K

KennethC

Guest
I know we have an example of righteous anger when Jesus overturned the tables at the temple. His anger was justified

Yes because those who Jesus was addressing were openly corrupting the temple and the word of God !!!

We are not to show anger towards others just because you have a disagreement with them, as every time Jesus showed righteous anger and called others hypocrites and vipers was because they openly constantly corrupting His word. The Pharisees were the biggest ones as they were the law givers, but they would twist and add to the law and not lift a finger to help to help others. They were self righteous and did things for their own gain and recognition, not love for God !!!
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
[TABLE="width: 0, align: center"]
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[TD="width: 100%, align: left"]2 Corinthians 10:5
casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]Have you ever felt condemned because of the bad thoughts you have had? You could be in the middle of a prayer meeting when suddenly a dirty thought enters your mind. Actually, it is the devil who puts such thoughts in your mind. Then, he steps back, looks at you and knocks you on your head, saying, “How can you call yourself a Christian and still think such thoughts?”
I used to be in bondage over the bad thoughts I had because I felt that I had to confess every one of them and seek God’s forgiveness. But that is not what God’s Word exhorts us to do. You see, God wants us to bring “every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ”. Now, whose obedience are we to focus on? Christ’s obedience and not our own obedience!
But what is “the obedience of Christ”? It is His obedience at the cross, where “by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous”. (Romans 5:19) Jesus shed His blood for us at the cross. This means that when our thoughts condemn us, we are to focus our thoughts on Jesus’ obedience at the cross.
My friend, the devil can only make inroads into our minds when he gets us to focus on our obedience instead of Christ’s obedience. His strategy is to point us to our obedience or the lack of it to determine our standing before God. But just as our position as sinners is not based on what we do, but what the first Adam did, in the same way, we are forever righteous today not because of what we do, but because of what Christ, the last Adam, did on the cross.
So the next time your thoughts seem to condemn you, say, “I am righteous whether I have good or bad thoughts. My righteousness has nothing to do with my obedience. Jesus’ obedience at the cross made me righteous.” Then,go ahead and pray, knowing that you have access to God and His favor, and that He hears the prayer of the righteous. (Proverbs 15:29)
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I posted this in another thread but it also applies here as well.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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How can someone align such a doctrine with new covenant grace? How can your stubbornness to forgive others make void the blood of Jesus Christ? How powerful is your heart! As if your lack of forgiveness towards others puts a dam up, stopping the blood of Christ from washing over you. How self-righteous to think that your salvation is dependent upon your goodness, and your generosity to forgive those that have wronged you (in whatever small way).

People will say that Jesus said that if we don't forgive others, then our heavenly Father won't forgive us and this is true that he spoke such words. However, he said this pre-cross or before sacrificing himself on the cross and then resurrecting on the third day. So you see, you must acknowledge there was a changing of covenants taking place. From the old into the new, from self-righteousness to imputed righteousness (grace).

You will notice that in the OT Law, there were many forms of doing something in order to receive something. Blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. Do instead of done (finished). Right? So if you don't forgive someone (the do) then you won't be forgiven (the curse). But if you do forgive (the do) you will be forgiven (the blessing). But what do we say of the verses that go contrary to these pre-cross words of Jesus? What do we say to His grace that says done, instead of do?

Ephesians 4:32King James Version (KJV)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

"What is this?", you say. You forgive others because "God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." You say, "Wait, what? I am forgiven and therefore I forgive others? But don't I have to forgive in order to be forgiven?" Do you see the change in covenants taking place? From a place of do, to a place of done, by grace. Here is another verse to make the point all the clearer.

Colossians 3:13King James Version (KJV)

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Do you see it? He forgave you. Its done. You don't need to forgive in order to receive forgiveness because Christ has already forgiven you. Its done. You forgive because of this and a number of other reasons. You are coming from a place of forgiveness, Jesus is your example. Forgive as He forgives. Love, as he loves. You are forgiven.

This doctrine of forgiving in order to be forgiven makes the Gospel of Grace into a gospel of self-righteousness. It makes it your responsibility to save yourself, when Jesus is the Author and Finisher of your faith. The doctrine undermines the finished work of the cross done by Jesus Christ. If we had to forgive in order to be forgiven we would not be saved by Jesus but by our own ability and willingness to forgive. We would be saving ourselves, as if Jesus has passed us the baton and said the rest is up to us. No, the rest is where we started in Christ. In His rest. In His grace, better said, in Him. We finish where we started, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:11King James Version (KJV)

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

That YOU are!
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me forgiveness is a rather simple phenomenon. Once someone repents of their sin, you forgive them.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,286
6,586
113
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me forgiveness is a rather simple phenomenon. Once someone repents of their sin, you forgive them.
Actually, I think we should forgive them...if they ask or not......as for their repenting of their sin, I see that between them and God. If we do not forgive those who trespass against us, it only hurts us.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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If you don't forgive as you have forgiven aren't you a hypocrite?
Hypocrite and absurd as it is illustrated in the following parable:

[h=3]The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant[/h]21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[g]
23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him.25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[i] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
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Love your neighbour like yourself and forgive him seventy-seven times are commandments, not advices.

We are building our own prison cells, our own hell by being hateful, envious, full of pride, con-descendent, stubborn etc. As long as people are aware of these dangerous passions, there is still hope for them. But if they believe that stubborn un-forgiveness is alright, then not only they don't know God personally, but they don't know God not even in theory.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
113
There was nothing of the Nature of impulsive or thoughtless action about our Lord, but only a calm strength that never got into a panic. Righteous anger, for instance, wasn't an impulsive reaction based on the correct reasoning, it was a resolved statement of rightful position in Gods decrees. Most of us develop our Christianity along the lines of our own nature, not along the lines of Gods Nature. Impulsiveness is a trait of the Natural life, and our Lord always ignores it, because it hinders the life of a Disciple.

Watch how the Spirit of God gives a sense of restraint to impulsiveness, suddenly bringing us a feeling of self-conscious foolishness, which makes us instantly want to vindicate ourselves. Impulsiveness is alright in a child, but is disastrous in a man or woman--an impulsive adult is always a spoiled person. Impulsiveness needs to be trained into intuition thru discipline.

And Discipline is built entirely on the supernatural grace of God. Walking on water is easy to someone with impulsive boldness, but walking on dry land as a disciple of Jesus is something altogether different. Peter walked on the water to go to Jesus, but he "followed Him at a distance"..on dry land Mark 14:54. We do not need the grace of God to withstand crises--human nature and pride are sufficient for us to face the stress and strain magnificently. But it does require the supernatural grace of God to live twenty-four hours of everyday as a saint, going thru drudgery, and living an ordinary, unnoticed, and ignored existence as a disciple of Jesus.

It is ingrained in us that we have to do exceptional things for God -- but we do not. We have to be exceptional in the ordinary things in life, and holy on the ordinary streets, among ordinary people--and this is not learned in 5 minutes.
 
E

ember

Guest
did I ask difficult questions slave or what?

post #102
 
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phil112

Guest
Love your neighbour like yourself and forgive him seventy-seven times ...........................
Just out of curiosity, where did you go to school?:)

Matthew 18:22 "Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."