Forgive others who sin against you

[Grace777x70]

The scriptures say not to revile back and to try to live at peace with all men -if possible...if not it also says to "avoid" such men too...I don't believe Paul waited around on his travels for thieves to come and steal from him....nor waited for the Jews to come and stone him all the time. In some cases he left town....wise move.

I believe the Holy Spirit will lead us in each situation as we are open to Him.

Romans 12:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

 

[FreeNChrist]

In 1829 a man named George Wilson was arrested for robbery and murder in a heist of the U.S. mail. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced to death by hanging. Some friends intervened on his behalf and were finally able to obtain his pardon from President Andrew Jackson. But when Wilson was informed of his pardon, he refused it, saying he wanted to die.

This left the sheriff with quite a dilemma. How could he execute a man who was officially pardoned?

An appeal was made to President Jackson as to what to do. The perplexed president turned the matter over to the U.S. Supreme Court. Chief Justice John Marshall gave this ruling: A pardon is a piece of paper, the value of which depends on its acceptance by the person implicated. Anyone under the sentence of death would hardly be expected to refuse a pardon, but it if it is refused, it's no pardon.

George Wilson was executed on the gallows while his signed pardon lay a few hundred feet away on the sheriffs desk.

We have all been issued a pardon by God, obtained for us by Jesus Christ through His shed blood on the cross. But a pardon refused in no pardon.

 

[JesusIsAll]

The scriptures say not to revile back and to try to live at peace with all men -if possible...if not it also says to "avoid" such men too...I don't believe Paul waited around on his travels for thieves to come and steal from him....nor waited for the Jews to come and stone him all the time. In some cases he left town....wise move.

I believe the Holy Spirit will lead us in each situation as we are open to Him.

Romans 12:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a massive difference between forgiving people and trusting them. Sometimes the best recourse is to stay away from them "until" they show fruits for repentance. - other then that we are just setting ourselves up on purpose to be abused. We would not want our own children to do that - why would our good, loving Father want the same thing?

That's the way I look at concerning forgiving others and "allowing" them to continue to do things when they could be prevented by simply not associating with them anymore - if possible.

Being persecuted for the preaching of the gospel is a different creature as we are there on assignment from the Lord Himself and yet He still makes all grace available to us in these special situations.

 

[JesusIsAll]

There is a massive difference between forgiving people and trusting them. Sometimes the best recourse is to stay away from them "until" they show fruits for repentance. - other then that we are just setting ourselves up on purpose to be abused. We would not want our own children to do that - why would our good, loving Father want the same thing?

That's the way I look at concerning forgiving others and "allowing" them to continue to do things when they could be prevented by simply not associating with them anymore - if possible. Being persecuted for the preaching of the gospel is a different creature as we are there on assignment from the Lord Himself and yet He still makes all grace available to us in these special situations.

What you said about the bitter root is important. I don't hold anybody's sins against them: it's the past and irrelevant to me, most important the Lord is the judge in these matters, and vengeance was never ours, if we were vengeful. It's sin to be vengeful. Bitterness is unwise and a terrible waste, that will drag people down. I wish the worst person I've ever known were saved, would get saved. On the other hand, I won't have unrepentant evil people in my life, any more than I leave doors open at night. Those words "if he repent" are critical to a wise understanding of the world around us and the ongoing workings of Satan, who requires some hook in our lives, to continue operating.

 

[Grace777x70]

What you said about the bitter root is important. I don't hold anybody's sins against them: it's the past and irrelevant to me, most important the Lord is the judge in these matters, and vengeance was never ours, if we were vengeful. It's sin to be vengeful. Bitterness is unwise and a terrible waste, that will drag people down. I wish the worst person I've ever known were saved, would get saved. On the other hand, I won't have unrepentant evil people in my life, any more than I leave doors open at night. Those words "if he repent" are critical to a wise understanding on the world around us and the ongoing workings of Satan, who requires some hook in our lives, to continue operating.

well said...and your words made me think of this verse below and how it speaks to us on how we can affect other people around us when we don't receive the grace needed in every situation...

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

 

[JesusIsAll]

well said...and your words made me think of this verse below and how it speaks to us on how we can affect other people around us when we don't receive the grace needed in every situation...

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The subject got turned to inward sin in a thread I did, and there was this sermon by Adrian Rogers so powerful on this subject of bitterness, one I took some notes from, rather than retyping stuff, maybe those thread comments are worth sharing here?

Adrian Rogers taught the best I've ever heard on this subject, the origins of sin inward, I believe the sermon called "The Blight of Bitterness." It was teaching from Ephesians 4, how that seed of bitterness grows into malice and wrath, that we entertain, cultivate, sinful acts in a progression, where that bitterness is amplified, smoldering into a fire, if we allow it.

It was really a great sermon. I just looked at some old notes, he pointed out how the Greek for wrath is like internal heat, a smoldering, slow burn, like oily rags smoldering. Then wrath turns to anger, which is explosive, the smoldering turned to flame, with outward hostility beyond proportion. Then what? Clamour, the old tongue getting into it with evil speaking and name calling, to end in being filled with malice, the desire to hurt, to harm, to injure, and all this from that root of bitterness, with often many being defiled. Listening to this, it reminded me of many true crime stories of violence, how you see this played out. Very powerful stuff, to take home to our hearts.

 

[Grace777x70]

The subject got turned to inward sin in a thread I did, and there was this sermon by Adrian Rogers so powerful on this subject of bitterness, one I took some notes from, rather than retyping stuff, maybe those thread comments are worth sharing here?

Adrian Rogers taught the best I've ever heard on this subject, the origins of sin inward, I believe the sermon called "The Blight of Bitterness." It was teaching from Ephesians 4, how that seed of bitterness grows into malice and wrath, that we entertain, cultivate, sinful acts in a progression, where that bitterness is amplified, smoldering into a fire, if we allow it.

It was really a great sermon. I just looked at some old notes, he pointed out how the Greek for wrath is like internal heat, a smoldering, slow burn, like oily rags smoldering. Then wrath turns to anger, which is explosive, the smoldering turned to flame, with outward hostility beyond proportion. Then what? Clamour, the old tongue getting into it with evil speaking and name calling, to end in being filled with malice, the desire to hurt, to harm, to injure, and all this from that root of bitterness, with often many being defiled. Listening to this, it reminded me of many true crime stories of violence, how you see this played out. Very powerful stuff, to take home to our hearts.

Good stuff!..I can see that progression easily happening. I liked that.

I did a study one time of the "fiery darts or arrows" of the enemy in Ephesians 6:16

Here is what I found - it was a term used for when an army would light the arrows and shot them into the fortress and causing it to catch on fire. This fire would panic them and their emotions would make them do stupid things. In the same way the "fiery arrows" of our enemy sends thoughts trying to penetrate our minds with circumstances and "fact" that are not the Truth - and if they get through our shield of faith - they set on fire our emotions and throw us in turmoil.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Good stuff!..I can see that progression easily happening. I liked that.

I did a study one time of the "fiery darts or arrows" of the enemy in Ephesians 6:16

Here is what I found - it was a term used for when an army would light the arrows and shot them into the fortress and causing it to catch on fire. This fire would panic them and their emotions would make them do stupid things. In the same way the "fiery arrows" of our enemy sends thoughts trying to penetrate our minds with circumstances and "fact" that are not the Truth - and if they get through our shield of faith - they set on fire our emotions and throw us in turmoil.

Wow! Interesting take on the fiery darts, which would have an unbalancing edge a regular arrow would not. God's word has such perfect detail in it, many perfect examples that could only come from the mind of God, going very deep into truth. The whole armor of God passage Adrian also did a brilliant exegesis of, analyzing all the armor of Ephesians 6 and showing how perfectly it fit the spiritual application.

The Roman soldier's shield measured approximately two by four feet and was made of wood covered with leather. In that day, soldiers dipped arrows in oil, then lit them and shot them at the enemy. These shields were vital to protect the solider from getting burned. For the shield of faith, faith is what keeps the devil's darts away, the believer's certainty against doubt, a fixed standard of right and wrong. One must be locked on the fact that the Bible is the word of God. The devil in the Garden of Eden first caused doubt as to the word of God.

 

[ladylynn]

Gods forgiveness is unconditional, as ours is to be towards others.

We love God and others because He first loved us and led the way teaching us about grace.. We don't love God and others to GET loved or forgiven. We get loved and forgiven BECAUSE of Jesus UNCONDITIONAL LOVE - Grace., and that His Spirit is daily teaching us about His grace towards us and showing us the beauty of being gracious to others.... We don't love others to get love back from others. We love God and others because God for Christ sake has loved and forgiven us.

It ALWAYS comes back to the Cross. It does NOT come back to US nor does it depend on us...it depends on HIM. That is why it is REAL and sets people free.

 

[AuntieAnt]

Brother PeterJens, you reason out God's word with your own understanding. Truthfully, we have no more power to forgive others than we do to change our DNA. Forgiveness the way God intends is miraculous. To forgive the way Jesus does is: NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE WRONGS DONE AGAINST US.

If I say to you, "I forgive you," I am actually accusing you of sinning against me in the first place. If I make no mention of you offending me at all, it's agape love: Love does not take into account the wrongs done against it. Jesus "despised" (gave no credit to, paid no attention to) the humiliation, the offenses. He did not ignore people, He ignored the offense done against Him. Like it never happened.

So if you're telling people to make a list of the offenses done against them so they can go down the list and forgive everyone who has sinned against them, you are giving out worldly wisdom. That is not from God.

Only the Holy Spirit can love others through us, only Christ Himself within us can change our hearts and minds to see that anything done against us is already paid for by the Blood of the Lamb.

God forgives people through us so:
1. we don't have to carry around the burden of humiliation & anger
2. nothing comes between His intimate communion with us
3. people see Christ Jesus alive in us and are saved

The world forgives exactly how you are instructing people, PeterJens. By self-efforts. Only God can forgive as if the sin never even happened. When people who have wronged us are given godly love in spite of it, they don't see us. Their hearts see Jesus.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

In 1829 a man named George Wilson was arrested for robbery and murder in a heist of the U.S. mail. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced to death by hanging. Some friends intervened on his behalf and were finally able to obtain his pardon from President Andrew Jackson. But when Wilson was informed of his pardon, he refused it, saying he wanted to die.

This left the sheriff with quite a dilemma. How could he execute a man who was officially pardoned?

An appeal was made to President Jackson as to what to do. The perplexed president turned the matter over to the U.S. Supreme Court. Chief Justice John Marshall gave this ruling: A pardon is a piece of paper, the value of which depends on its acceptance by the person implicated. Anyone under the sentence of death would hardly be expected to refuse a pardon, but it if it is refused, it's no pardon.

George Wilson was executed on the gallows while his signed pardon lay a few hundred feet away on the sheriffs desk.

We have all been issued a pardon by God, obtained for us by Jesus Christ through His shed blood on the cross. But a pardon refused in no pardon.

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=yuSwnAJTo5UC

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I needed this thread today. Good reminders and good verses to chew on. Thanks all!

 

[ladylynn]

I think we always have to nurture a forgiving heart, but Jesus clearly said that IF a brother repents, forgive him.

Because of the Love of God IN Christ that forgives me is at work at all times.., so much so that my love and forgiveness to others is my reasonable service and something my new heart seeks to do., regardless if the person asks me to forgive them or not. Jesus constrains us by His example as His love is actually shed abroad in our hearts. We don't love and forgive because we have to., we love and forgive because we want to as it is part of our new nature.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If I say to you, "I forgive you," I am actually accusing you of sinning against me in the first place. If I make no mention of you offending me at all, it's agape love: Love does not take into account the wrongs done against it. Jesus "despised" (gave no credit to, paid no attention to) the humiliation, the offenses. He did not ignore people, He ignored the offense done against Him. Like it never happened.

So if you're telling people to make a list of the offenses done against them so they can go down the list and forgive everyone who has sinned against them, you are giving out worldly wisdom. That is not from God.

Wow I can't believe someone actually said and believes this. I have sensed this spirit trying to influence me when forgiving others, but I knew it wasn't right. This IMO is the attitude that enables dysfunctional co-dependent relationships. It almost seems that this is what Christian love has been turned into in some cases - the negation of self.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=yuSwnAJTo5UC

Thanks. Dwight Edwards, I'm not surprised.

 

[AuntieAnt]

Wow I can't believe someone actually said and believes this. I have sensed this spirit trying to influence me when forgiving others, but I knew it wasn't right. This IMO is the attitude that enables dysfunctional co-dependent relationships. It almost seems that this is what Christian love has been turned into in some cases - the negation of self.

Exactly! Jesus was meek and gentle and did not condemn. He was a servant and didn't consider His life even unto death. You are exactly right! The world considers that being a fool. Unfortunately, so do many Christians. (Btw, Happy April Fools Day CC members!)

I have been counseled and I have counseled others for well over 30 years regarding abusive relationships. The number one thing to be addressed is knowing your worth and not putting yourself or your children in danger. I am 100% an advocate of zero tolerance of abuse. Even Jesus and the disciples got away from those who tried to do them harm.

You can get separate yourself from an abuser and still let God forgive them in your heart. Jesus hung on the cross and said, "They don't know what they're doing." Do you think He lied?

As I said, we can use worldly wisdom or we can believe God performs His will through us. If worldly wisdom worked, this thread wouldn't even exist.

 

[ladylynn]

After the cross we forgive because we know that we are forgiven - just like we love because He first loved us.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say..

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect = The perfect tense expresses perfective action. Perfective action involves a present state which has resulted from a past action. The present state is a continuing state; the past action is a completed action. It is continuously in the present

passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood,the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according tothe riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Exactly. And how can we give out unconditional love and forgiveness to others if we do not HAVE it in reality from God IN Christ? How can God expect us to love this way (by grace) if we do not know and believe we are loved this way?

This is the power that "worketh" IN us by God. It stands on it's own regardless of OUR doing it. Just like when we learn to do this kind of love for others, it will stand on it's own even if the one we have forgiven for Christ's sake never asked. We can't give what we don't have ourselves.

 

[Grace777x70]

Exactly. And how can we give out unconditional love and forgiveness to others if we do not HAVE it in reality from God IN Christ? How can God expect us to love this way (by grace) if we do not know and believe we are loved this way?

This is the power that "worketh" IN us by God. It stands on it's own regardless of OUR doing it. Just like when we learn to do this kind of love for others, it will stand on it's own even if the one we have forgiven for Christ's sake never asked. We can't give what we don't have ourselves.

Amen...freely we have received - now we can freely give!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Exactly! Jesus was meek and gentle and did not condemn. He was a servant and didn't consider His life even unto death. You are exactly right! The world considers that being a fool. Unfortunately, so do many Christians. (Btw, Happy April Fools Day CC members!)

I have been counseled and I have counseled others for well over 30 years regarding abusive relationships. The number one thing to be addressed is knowing your worth and not putting yourself or your children in danger. I am 100% an advocate of zero tolerance of abuse. Even Jesus and the disciples got away from those who tried to do them harm.

You can get separate yourself from an abuser and still let God forgive them in your heart. Jesus hung on the cross and said, "They don't know what they're doing." Do you think He lied?

As I said, we can use worldly wisdom or we can believe God performs His will through us. If worldly wisdom worked, this thread wouldn't even exist.

I hope you didn't think that I was implying that self-negation is a good thing. We are to humble ourselves, not act like our selves don't exist. The bible says that if a brother wrongs us, to go to him and let him know; give him a chance to repent; not act like it never happened.