Former pentecostal

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#581
Oct 20, 2022
1,073
190
63
#581
Cameron143 said:
The gifts were the result of the Holy Spirit, always have been. 1 Corinthians 12:11 teaches that He imparts the gifts as He sees fit. That He employed the laying on of hands at times does not limit Him to only doing so.
Click to expand...
Except there is no biblical evidence other than the apostle's hands being the instrument of implementing or enabling the gifts.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#582
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#582
GWH said:
Well, I am surprised that you don't remember saying "That which is perfect is referring to maturity", unless you have senioritis like me. Earthly maturation is not perfection, but I am glad you think my gifts are still in effect. Whew! :D
Click to expand...
You obviously didn't get the gift of discernment. As for the gifts you have received, edify away.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#583
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#583
DJT_47 said:
Except there is no biblical evidence other than the apostle's hands being the instrument of implementing or enabling the gifts.
Click to expand...
The absence of a list of means doesn't negate what is clearly taught in scripture. Do you not possess any spiritual gifts?
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#584
Oct 20, 2022
1,073
190
63
#584
Cameron143 said:
The absence of a list of means doesn't negate what is clearly taught in scripture. Do you not possess any spiritual gifts?
Click to expand...
Don't need them. I have the scriptures which they didn't have to guide and enlighten. If the word of God is complete then anything added beyond it is both unnecessary as well as contrary to scripture since God's written word would not be complete.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#585
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#585
DJT_47 said:
Don't need them. I have the scriptures which they didn't have to guide and enlighten. If the word of God is complete then anything added beyond it is both unnecessary as well as contrary to scripture since God's written word would not be complete.
Click to expand...
Do you attend a church?
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#589
Oct 19, 2024
1,778
442
83
#589
Cameron143 said:
You obviously didn't get the gift of discernment. As for the gifts you have received, edify away.
Click to expand...
...Said the head to the foot, but at least that leaves me with edification (EPH 4:11-15), which I exercise by means of editing or sewing Scripture together (cf. LK 24:27&45), using logic to connect the dots (cf. ACTS 13:16-48), mainly for the purpose of theodicy or equipping the saints to withstand the barbs or arguments of atheists (EPH 6:16-17), which I felt so unable to do after being raised in my SBC church. But I hope my main gift is humility or being a teachable learner (1TM 4:12-14, cf. 1TM 6:3-4, 2TM 2:23-25).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#590
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#590
DJT_47 said:
2 pastors (elders) 1 minister/preacher
Click to expand...
Who laid hands on them? Who qualified them? Did an apostle qualify them? And why them? Who decided? And what do you need a pastor for? Don't you have the Spirit within you to teach you all things?
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#591
Oct 20, 2022
1,073
190
63
#591
Cameron143 said:
Who laid hands on them? Who qualified them? Did an apostle qualify them? And why them? Who decided? And what do you need a pastor for? Don't you have the Spirit within you to teach you all things?
Click to expand...
There are no requirements for laying on of hands to "qualify" them. What scripture(s) say that? Pastors are the church leaders, the shepherds of the local congregation, and there should be at least 2 since it's plural in scripture. Elders are selected by the congregation, "qualified" by the requirements set forth in the scriptures, 1 Tim and Titus. The elders are then responsible for selecting preachers and conducting the oversightof all church business and activities.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#592
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#592
DJT_47 said:
There are no requirements for laying on of hands to "qualify" them. What scripture(s) say that? Pastors are the church leaders, the shepherds of the local congregation, and there should be at least 2 since it's plural in scripture. Elders are selected by the congregation, "qualified" by the requirements set forth in the scriptures, 1 Tim and Titus. The elders are then responsible for selecting preachers and conducting the oversightof all church business and activities.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t 1 Timothy 4:14 say the gift was imparted as the elders or presbytery laid hands on Timothy?
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#593
Oct 20, 2022
1,073
190
63
#593
Cameron143 said:
Doesn’t 1 Timothy 4:14 say the gift was imparted as the elders or presbytery laid hands on Timothy?
Click to expand...
Yes, but who is the presbytery Paul is referring to? I know but do you? The answer is in another scripture.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#594
May 23, 2012
13,111
4,374
113
#594
Cameron143 said:
Doesn’t 1 Timothy 4:14 say the gift was imparted as the elders or presbytery laid hands on Timothy?
Click to expand...
it can be and should be in the church setting. We are told not to lay hands on anyone suddenly. The Pastor and elders hopefully are disciplining and the call of GOD is seen in their life. The gifts are all given by the Holy Spirit, but Leaders affirm what GOD has done.

Paul stood by Titus Timothy and others. And did so from a Prison cell.
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#595
Oct 20, 2022
1,073
190
63
#595
CS1 said:
it can be and should be in the church setting. We are told not to lay hands on anyone suddenly. The Pastor and elders hopefully are disciplining and the call of GOD is seen in their life. The gifts are all given by the Holy Spirit, but Leaders affirm what GOD has done.

Paul stood by Titus Timothy and others. And did so from a Prison cell.
Click to expand...
2 Timothy 1:6
6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands

Paul was referring to himself being the presbytery who laid hands on Timothy in 1 Tim
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#596
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#596
CS1 said:
it can be and should be in the church setting. We are told not to lay hands on anyone suddenly. The Pastor and elders hopefully are disciplining and the call of GOD is seen in their life. The gifts are all given by the Holy Spirit, but Leaders affirm what GOD has done.

Paul stood by Titus Timothy and others. And did so from a Prison cell.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with anything you shared. And spiritual gifts are definitely considered in choosing church officials. I'm merely pointing out that laying on of hands wasn’t restricted to apostles.
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#597
Oct 20, 2022
1,073
190
63
#597
Cameron143 said:
Doesn’t 1 Timothy 4:14 say the gift was imparted as the elders or presbytery laid hands on Timothy?
Click to expand...
2 Timothy 1:6
6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands

Paul was referring to himself being the presbytery who laid hands on Timothy in 1 Tim
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#598
May 23, 2012
13,111
4,374
113
#598
DJT_47 said:
2 Timothy 1:6
6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands

Paul was referring to himself being the presbytery who laid hands on Timothy in 1 Tim
Click to expand...
yes, I agree he discipled Timothy.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#599
Mar 1, 2022
20,061
6,870
113
62
#599
DJT_47 said:
2 Timothy 1:6
6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands

Paul was referring to himself being the presbytery who laid hands on Timothy in 1 Tim
Click to expand...
Presbytery is a group.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#600
May 23, 2012
13,111
4,374
113
#600
Cameron143 said:
I don't disagree with anything you shared. And spiritual gifts are definitely considered in choosing church officials. I'm merely pointing out that laying on of hands wasn’t restricted to apostles.
Click to expand...
yes you are correct I believe the Word of God shows that.

Book of Acts 9:10

Ananias was a disciple, and he laid hands on Paul.

Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.