Former pentecostal

[DJT_47]

yes you are correct I believe the Word of God shows that.

Book of Acts 9:10

Ananias was a disciple, and he laid hands on Paul.

Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”

Be careful in reading too much into this. You must look at what Ananias said as opposed to whst the Lord said for him to fo as well as Paul's recount of the event in Acts 22.

Look at Acts 9:17-18 and what Ananias said and note that Paul was baptized afterwards at which point he did receive the Holy Ghost pursuant to Acts 2:38, as the jews did and as we do today; the indwelling of the Spirit in us.

Then look at Paul's recount of the event in Acts 22 and compare what Paul said versus what Ananias said in Acts 9. Look at verse 13 in Acts 22. It only says "sight" not the Holy Ghost. So as previously stated, Paul was baptized per verse 22 of Acts 22 at which point he in fact did receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (not the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit, gifts, but just the indwelling of the Spirit).

 

[CS1]

Be careful in reading too much into this. You must look at what Ananias said as opposed to whst the Lord said for him to fo as well as Paul's recount of the event in Acts 22.

Look at Acts 9:17-18 and what Ananias said and note that Paul was baptized afterwards at which point he did receive the Holy Ghost pursuant to Acts 2:38, as the jews did and as we do today; the indwelling of the Spirit in us.

Then look at Paul's recount of the event in Acts 22 and compare what Paul said versus what Ananias said in Acts 9. Look at verse 13 in Acts 22. It only says "sight" not the Holy Ghost. So as previously stated, Paul was baptized per verse 22 of Acts 22 at which point he in fact did receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (not the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit, gifts, but just the indwelling of the Spirit).

Ananias was no Aposlte. You don't have to read into it; it states that.

 

[DJT_47]

Ananias was no Aposlte. You don't have to read into it; it states that.

Read the rest of my posting and carefully read what happened and what was said by him and Paul in Acts 22. It's pretty clear

 

[CS1]

Read the rest of my posting and carefully read what happened and what was said by him and Paul in Acts 22. It's pretty clear

I did. The point is God will use who he wills for the betterment of all.

 

[DJT_47]

I did. The point is God will use who he wills for the betterment of all.

The point is, you misinterpreted the Ananias issue.

 

[CS1]

The point is, you misinterpreted the Ananias issue.

Please explain to me what you think I missed.

 

[DJT_47]

Please explain to me what you think I missed.

It's super clear. Ananias laying of his hands did not impart the Holy Ghost as did the apostle's laying on of their hands, as you inferred, that he wasn't an apostle yet the Holy Ghost was imparted to Paul by the laying on of his hands; NOT SO. As Paul stated in Acts 22, Ananias was to ONLY restore Paul's sight. Paul received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as do all who are baptized into Christ, and not any miraculous manifestations spiritual manifestations.

 

[CS1]

It's super clear. Ananias laying of his hands did not impart the Holy Ghost as did the apostle's laying on of their hands, as you inferred, that he wasn't an apostle yet the Holy Ghost was imparted to Paul by the laying on of his hands; NOT SO. As Paul stated in Acts 22, Ananias was to ONLY restore Paul's sight. Paul received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as do all who are baptized into Christ, and not any miraculous manifestations spiritual manifestations.

That is not what the text says, sir,


17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

 

[DJT_47]

That is not what the text says, sir,


17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

And what did Paul say in Acts 22:13 when he retold the account. "Receive thy sight" and not be "filled with the Holy Spirit". Ananias was correct in saying that Paul would also receive the Holy Spirit, but not by the laying on of his hands, but rather upon being baptized. Ananias simply restored his sight when he laid his hands on Paul and did NOT impart any miraculous manifestation of the Holy Ghost. It wasn't until he baptized Paul that the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to Paul via baptism.

Acts 22:6-13


6And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. 9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. 11And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight.

And Paul then was baptized at which h time he received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as does everyone per Acts 2:38 when they're baptized.

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[CS1]

And what did Paul say in Acts 22:13 when he retold the account. "Receive thy sight" and not be "filled with the Holy Spirit". Ananias was correct in saying that Paul would also receive the Holy Spirit, but not by the laying on of his hands, but rather upon being baptized. Ananias simply restored his sight when he laid his hands on Paul and did NOT impart any miraculous manifestation of the Holy Ghost. It wasn't until he baptized Paul that the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to Paul via baptism.

Acts 22:6-13

6And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. 9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. 11And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight.

And Paul then was baptized at which h time he received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as does everyone per Acts 2:38 when they're baptized.

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So Luke Lied?

7 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.


You are discombobulating Acts 2:38 and trying to control the work of the Holy Spirit in method or legalistic action or requirement.

If you read Acts 22:14-16 which you left out for what reason I don't know.

it says: Paul Speaking right?

12 “Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there,
13 came to me; and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him.

14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.

15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.

16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’


Ananias laid his hands on him. He (Paul) was healed and Filled with the Holy Spirit and was Baptized by Ananias.


it was after this we see THEN in verse 17: "17 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem "

 

[CS1]

And what did Paul say in Acts 22:13 when he retold the account. "Receive thy sight" and not be "filled with the Holy Spirit". Ananias was correct in saying that Paul would also receive the Holy Spirit, but not by the laying on of his hands, but rather upon being baptized. Ananias simply restored his sight when he laid his hands on Paul and did NOT impart any miraculous manifestation of the Holy Ghost. It wasn't until he baptized Paul that the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to Paul via baptism.

Acts 22:6-13

6And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. 9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. 11And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight.

And Paul then was baptized at which h time he received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as does everyone per Acts 2:38 when they're baptized.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38, as we see in the word of GOD, the empowering of the Holy Spirit can happen with or without hands being laid or water baptism happens first.

The only thing that must happen first is THe Holy Spirit's conviction and one repenting. After that, The Holy Spirit can do whatever he wants to, as we see through the book of Acts.

 

[DJT_47]

So Luke Lied?

7 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.


You are discombobulating Acts 2:38 and trying to control the work of the Holy Spirit in method or legalistic action or requirement.

If you read Acts 22:14-16 which you left out for what reason I don't know.

it says: Paul Speaking right?

12 “Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there,
13 came to me; and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him.

14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.

15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.

16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’


Ananias laid his hands on him. He (Paul) was healed and Filled with the Holy Spirit and was Baptized by Ananias.


it was after this we see THEN in verse 17: "17 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem "

Bottom line since you keep dancing around.
Paul DID NOT receive the Holy Spirit in any way shape or form via the laying on of Ananias' hands. He only received his sight as he stated in Acts 22. He did however, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling of the Spirit upon baptism which Ananias performed. So, Ananias had no like ability as the apostles, to impart the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit by the laying on of his hands. Only the apostles had such ability according to scripture. Goodbye 👋 go study and read more carefully

 

[Cameron143]

Part of the problem here is that no distinction has been made between the indwelling of the Spirit, the gift of the Spirit, and spiritual gifts.

 

[DJT_47]

Part of the problem here is that no distinction has been made between the indwelling of the Spirit, the gift of the Spirit, and spiritual gifts.

Regarding The scripture in question, namely the Ananias scripture in Acts 9, it doesn't matter whatsoever because, as stated, he DID NOT, impart the Holy Spirit at all by the laying on of his hands; he only restored Paul's sight.

 

[CS1]

Bottom line since you keep dancing around.
Paul DID NOT receive the Holy Spirit in any way shape or form via the laying on of Ananias' hands. He only received his sight as he stated in Acts 22. He did however, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling of the Spirit upon baptism which Ananias performed. So, Ananias had no like ability as the apostles, to impart the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit by the laying on of his hands. Only the apostles had such ability according to scripture. Goodbye 👋 go study and read more carefully

LOL dancing LOL you are very funny .

You left out verses 14 to 16, which repeats what was said in Acts Chapter Nine.

Yes, Paul received the Holy Spirit when 1. hands were laid on him by Ananias after receiving HIS site and was Filled with the Holy Spirit.

The very text you used repeats that very thing in chapter 22:16. I don't know if your Oness or legalistic of both Chapters 9 and 22 you used are harmonized with what they say.


17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord [d]Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.


The text doesn't say he was filled after or before the water baptism. So, can we say Paul was or was not? What the text states is that Ananias laid hands on him, and he was healed and baptized. WE do not see Paul prophesying or Speaking in tongues anywhere until when? Chapter 13 is the first record where it says Paul was filled or Full of the Holy Spirit.

9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

 

[CS1]

Regarding The scripture in question, namely the Ananias scripture in Acts 9, it doesn't matter whatsoever because, as stated, he DID NOT, impart the Holy Spirit at all by the laying on of his hands; he only restored Paul's sight.

did not have say impart that term was not used in context to An Eyewitness of then Resurrected Lord as a normative. Paul saw Jesus. You can not find anywhere in the Book of Acts concerning Paul where he was Baptized and empowered by the Holy Spirit after Acts chapter 9. Paul is said to be Led by or past-tense filled with the Holy Spirit. Your position doesn't hold water.

 

[CS1]

Part of the problem here is that no distinction has been made between the indwelling of the Spirit, the gift of the Spirit, and spiritual gifts.

in the context of Paul, we see he was saved, filled, and baptized with the Holy Spirit during the time he was with Ananias in chapter 9 of Acts.

After chapter 9, Paul is Prech Christ the Lord Jesus, led by the Holy Spirit, already filled with the Holy Spirit, operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There is no other event, action, or witness in the word of God to say otherwise.

 

[Cameron143]

in the context of Paul, we see he was saved, filled, and baptized with the Holy Spirit during the time he was with Ananias in chapter 9 of Acts.

After chapter 9, Paul is Prech Christ the Lord Jesus, led by the Holy Spirit, already filled with the Holy Spirit, operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There is no other event, action, or witness in the word of God to say otherwise.

I would argue that he was saved before Ananias showed up.

 

[CS1]

I would argue that he was saved before Ananias showed up.

that is possible

 

[stilllearning]

That is not what the text says, sir,


17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

I agree. It is all historical account and Luke gives the full account in chapter 9. In chapter 22 he is giving the defense of Paul and what Paul said. Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.

In chapter 26 he once again gives defense for himself. Acts 26:1 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself. Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself:

Which in this defense he does not even mentioning being blind or anything that would have happened afterwards.

Acts 26:12-21 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

In his defense's he did not give the full account and stuck to what he felt was relevant for his defense's to the hearing parties. So I agree with what you say and the conclusion that can be drawn. As each telling has it's own individual purpose based upon the hearer's. As seeing how Christ also said that the Spirit would give us the words to say in our defense we can conclude that God found this sufficient.