Francis Frangipane - dominionist spiritual warfare

[RickShafer]

"This trend picked up steam in 1948 with the Latter Rain Movement giving renewed emphasis to fivefold ministry, and soon after with the Charismatic Movement and Third Wave movements, led by figures such as C. Peter Wagner, who is now the leading figure in what is known as the New Apostolic Reformation, which emphasizes the specific need for apostolic leadership in the Church, among the other fivefold anointings."

The above statement is such a miscarriage of truth I cannot even describe it.
- Listen folks, don't study by 'wikipedia' O.K.?
The above paragraph is totally false. It's like comparing Elvis Presley to John the Apostle.
- - Totally laughable.

 

[zone]

"This trend picked up steam in 1948 with the Latter Rain Movement giving renewed emphasis to fivefold ministry, and soon after with the Charismatic Movement and Third Wave movements, led by figures such as C. Peter Wagner, who is now the leading figure in what is known as the New Apostolic Reformation, which emphasizes the specific need for apostolic leadership in the Church, among the other fivefold anointings."

The above statement is such a miscarriage of truth I cannot even describe it.
- Listen folks, don't study by 'wikipedia' O.K.?
The above paragraph is totally false. It's like comparing Elvis Presley to John the Apostle.
- - Totally laughable.

which part do you reject and which are you defending:

the Latter Rain Movement
fivefold ministry
the Charismatic Movement and Third Wave movements
C. Peter Wagner
the New Apostolic Reformation
need for apostolic leadership in the Church

your claim is these are not related?

which of these is not a miscarriage of truth:

the Latter Rain Movement
fivefold ministry
the Charismatic Movement and Third Wave movements
C. Peter Wagner
the New Apostolic Reformation
need for apostolic leadership in the Church


you do know it all hinges on the notion of latter rain.
cessationism is historical and biblical.

latter rain outpourings and restored five-fold ministry stuff is not.

 

[RickShafer]

no. it's clear what i meant.

there are no more prophets hearing directly from and speaking for God today.
people who say God says "_______" are lying, and they know it.

You blaspheme easily.
You are incorrect.
'God is love', 'God is Grace'......not all the time, - Not to everyone.

 

[zone]

You blaspheme easily.
You are incorrect.
'God is love', 'God is Grace'......not all the time, - Not to everyone.

how is it blasphemy to say false prophets are lying?

since there are no more prophets hearing directly from and speaking for God, what's the issue?

are you are prophet?

 

[zone]

When someone comes to you and say that God gave him a clear audible and/or visual revelation (dream, vision, prophecy, etc.), you are now in what I will call the IHOP Dilemma.

Due to the seriousness of disobeying genuine prophecy and the heinousness of proclaiming a false one, you are in an IHOP Dilemma when you are now forced to choose:

1) If this person is actually speaking truth from God. If so, we are bound to listen or face incurring the steep penalty of disobeying God's very own commands via His prophet.

or

2) Whether or not a person is proclaiming falsehood in God's name and thus incurring the steep penalty of false prophesying and being a false prophet.

Unfortunately, this puts the rest of Christianity in a hard situation, because we now have to make the determination whether IHOP is full of false prophets or true prophets and to treat them as such. We cannot merely remain neutral. How can we be neutral on God's revelation or on such an egregious sin as false prophecy within the church?

- Matt Slick

 

[zone]

The idea of the revival Bickle describes is a Latter Rain teaching that came from allegorizing Old Testament passages about the agricultural seasons in Israel. Bickle repeatedly refers to this non-existent revival and makes it the centerpiece of his allegorical version of the parable of the virgins.

What he is teaching is the eschatological doctrine of the Latter Rain combined with the false teachings of the Manifest Sons of God. In both movements, Jesus cannot return for the church because the church is supposedly “defeated” or “lacking revelations.” In both movements, it is the church, and not God Himself, who defeats God’s enemies during the Tribulation. In both movements all Christians are considered unenlightened and lacking, except those elites who are privy to special experiences and revelations.

Both movements predict an expected end-time revival that is greater than anything that has gone before.
Both movements are NOT Biblical!

stopihopcult

 

[RickShafer]

See how she at first backtracks, then reshuffles her argument?
- Just stick to your first response Zone.
"out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matt.12:34)

 

[SarahM777]

But that's O.K. because they didn't believe in Satan anyway, so he could pretend to be satan in his off time.
He was a dog catcher that bound, tortured, and killed innocent people.
But he was a Lutheran (even voted lay person of the year, one year in his Lutheran church), so no big woop.

Not sure where you got that from Rick,

From the Christian Cyclopedia LCMS

Devil.Term meaning literally “accuser,” 1 Ptr 5:8; in Scripture usually a descriptive name of Satan; also used in the plural for the fallen angels (demons [see Demon], evil spirits, unclean spirits), the chief of whom is called Satan by way of eminence (Mt 12:24–26). Satan himself, for whose subjugation Christ came, is the originator of all wickedness (Eph 2:2), an opponent of the kingdom of God. He is the tempter of the faithful (1 Ptr 5:8–9); he led Eve into sin and so became the originator and king of death (Heb 2:14). Originally created good, the evil spirits fell through their own fault (2 Ptr 2:4). That the devil is a personal being is clear from the Gospels and Epistles. Jesus calls him “evil one” and “enemy” (Mt 13:19, 28; 1 Ti 5:14). Other terms: “Adversary” (1 Ptr 5:8), “Satan” (Lk 22:31), “Beelzebub” or “Beelzebul” (Mt 10:25; 12:24; Mk 3:22; Lk 11:15, 18, 19), “prince” of devils and demons (Mt 12:24), “ruler of this world” (Jn 12:31; cf. Eph 6:12). Everlasting punishment was prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41). See also Demonology;Demoniac Possession.

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Christian Cyclopedia

 

[SarahM777]

I'm just casting dust up where you are.
B.T.K. went to church in Wichita Kansas.
To a branch of the Lutheran church that doesn't believe in a literal Lucifer.
I noticed you stamp every post with the Missouri Lutheran Synod.
That's right next to Kansas,.....does your synod believe in a literal satan?

UMM Rick you know that in Kansas you can go to both LCMS and ELCA's? Big gulf in doctrine between the two. If the man was a pastor he would be removed from the LCMS for even speaking at any ecumenical gathering. The LCMS does not take that lightly.

Before you speak to Zone about brushing up about that which she speaks perhaps it would be a good idea for you also.

 

[unclefester]

UMM Rick you know that in Kansas you can go to both LCMS and ELCA's? Big gulf in doctrine between the two. If the man was a pastor he would be removed from the LCMS for even speaking at any ecumenical gathering. The LCMS does not take that lightly.

Before you speak to Zone about brushing up about that which she speaks perhaps it would be a good idea for you also.

I'm going to say this the only way I know how. Rick hasn't a clue of those things he defends in his understanding of "the work of God". Where this places him in God's eyes is not for me to say. Unlike todays pentecostal/charismatics, I/we won't purport to speak for God. But I will speak for myself. He knows nothing of what Zone is exposing here for the benefit of those whose desire it is to know the truth in these matters. Too many are too frightened and/or confused to sift thru todays disaster known as pentecostal charismania. For many, it is all they have ever known and been taught. Zone is not afraid to expose it for what it clearly is. And neither am I ... nor are the likes of you and a few others here. Thank God for that. There are no prophets today. There is no such thing as a "heavenly language" ...i.e... todays "speaking in tongues" ...i.e.... gibberish. There are no new apostles. God's written Word is complete and more than sufficient to meet our every need in Christ. Those whose faith in Christ is secure and solid rest in this surety. Those unsure seek for signs and wonders. And not the least bit surprising, they "find" it. Zone speaks the truth. She will not be moved. And I love her for that.

 

[SarahM777]

I'm going to say this the only way I know how. Rick hasn't a clue of those things he defends in his understanding of "the work of God". Where this places him in God's eyes is not for me to say. Unlike todays pentecostal/charismatics, I/we won't purport to speak for God. But I will speak for myself. He knows nothing of what Zone is exposing here for the benefit of those whose desire it is to know the truth in these matters. Too many are too frightened and/or confused to sift thru todays disaster known as pentecostal charismania. For many, it is all they have ever known and been taught. Zone is not afraid to expose it for what it clearly is. And neither am I ... nor are the likes of you and a few others here. Thank God for that. There are no prophets today. There is no such thing as a "heavenly language" ...i.e... todays "speaking in tongues" ...i.e.... gibberish. There are no new apostles. God's written Word is complete and more than sufficient to meet our every need in Christ. Those whose faith in Christ is secure and solid rest in this surety. Those unsure seek for signs and wonders. And not the least bit surprising, they "find" it. Zone speaks the truth. She will not be moved. And I love her for that.

What I don't get about this whole thing is that if there are still prophets why do they always seem to get it wrong. I thought prophets were suppose to be 100% accurate. Not 99.9% or less. Shouldn't that be telling us something?

 

[SarahM777]

And know about others but I think that's a very plumb line. No confusion about that. Either 100% or that prophet is not from God. Period. A whole lot safer place to be. Which is for our good.

 

[unclefester]

What I don't get about this whole thing is that if there are still prophets why do they always seem to get it wrong. I thought prophets were suppose to be 100% accurate. Not 99.9% or less. Shouldn't that be telling us something?

You'd think it would. Same goes for "prophesying imperfectly" by the "immature" in Christ (this term came up in the OP's jezebel spirit post). What on God's green earth is THAT ? Just goes to show the "allowances" made by and for those who want to believe what they want to believe. Nothing short of remarkable in it's abysmal depth of falling short of God's truth. But you'd need a chain puller to yank the hook out of the mouths of those who cling to this heretical insanity. Nothing surprises me anymore. Nothing.

 

[SarahM777]

You'd think it would. Same goes for "prophesying imperfectly" by the "immature" in Christ (this term came up in the OP's jezebel spirit post). What on God's green earth is THAT ? Just goes to show the "allowances" made by and for those who want to believe what they want to believe. Nothing short of remarkable in it's abysmal depth of falling short of God's truth. But you'd need a chain puller to yank the hook out of the mouths of those who cling to this heretical insanity. Nothing surprises me anymore. Nothing.

Uncle,

I saw that too. Yeesh. Taken to the logical conclusion if the person told them it was from God they could believe anything. (IE Jim Jones) Like that doesn't wake people up.

What is at the heart of the matter is do we trust what God has already told us? Do we really take Him at His word? IE the Garden. If I remember correctly we were told that His word would endure FOREVER. Jesus told us that unless we become like little children (IE in the same manner that little children trust their parents) we can trust our heavenly Father.

 

[jimmydiggs]

That's right next to Kansas,.....does your synod believe in a literal satan?

They're not state level organizations.

 

[zone]

See how she at first backtracks, then reshuffles her argument?
- Just stick to your first response Zone.
"out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matt.12:34)

no backtracking. no reshuffling.
nothing new from my end.

my first response (whatever you mean by that) won't change.
john paul jackson and crew came up with the dominionist/NAR weapon of the "Jezebel Spirit" to cow critics of their false doctrine and wicked practices > that God is sending out prophets, and they are the prophets.

i take it further (at times in this thread, and at all times), and state anyone claiming to be a prophet hearing directly from and speaking for God today is bearing the same kind of fruit. false and not of God.

anyone who can read their stuff (not what i post....read for themselves) and not be alarmed and stand against it, well....seems odd to me.

i thought that was clear.
if you want it clearer, be precise.
t.y.

 

[zone]

They're not state level organizations.

whew! thanks for that diggs.
i guess i'm not in Kansas anymore.
(i hope not ...i don't have a passport)

 

[1still_waters]

If anyone is trying to cover up the things zone raises, should that be considered as solid proof that this error/heresy does exist?

 

[unclefester]

If anyone is trying to cover up the things zone raises, should that be considered as solid proof that this error/heresy does exist?

Excellent point.

 

[zone]

And know about others but I think that's a very plumb line. No confusion about that. Either 100% or that prophet is not from God. Period. A whole lot safer place to be. Which is for our good.

isn't that Prophecy 101?

anyways