Free from the law??
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In case you've forgotten, I asked what is the "moral law?" Your response: "The 10 Commandments." So I asked your view on a very specific passage of scripture:
You keep dodging this question. People who dodge questions usually do so because they don't want to admit they don't have an answer or because the answer is hurtful to their case. Until you answer this question, anything else you have to say is meaningless and irrelevant to me.
You keep dodging this question. People who dodge questions usually do so because they don't want to admit they don't have an answer or because the answer is hurtful to their case. Until you answer this question, anything else you have to say is meaningless and irrelevant to me.
“Do we throw out the law because it is too hard.”
no we acknolwedge the purpose of the law is this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
And because we acknowledge the purpose of the law regards sin and guilt , we acknowledge the effect of the law in the world regarding sin and death
“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
1 Corinthians 15:56 KJV
At this point we can acknowledge that this is true
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
airs not that we think the law is “ too hard “ it’s that the law is contrary to the gospel .
at he law is meant to impute every man’s sin upon them and prove them guilty
“what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
And the gospel is about remitting sin the opposite of imputing sin and holding it against someone
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
So you have the laws purpose which came first
what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
And the gospel which came after that was established which is to justify those proven sinners by the law
“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
it’s why Jesus teachings contrast against Moses teachings they are meant for opposite purposes
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( Moses teaching hold the sin against the person and repay them evil for evil )
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
v don’t hold sin against others and rely them evil with evil but instead bless those which have offended you
One testament is about imputing sin and making it known
The other is about remitting sins and calling men to repentance and following the lords word not Moses word but Jesus word the spirit
if you lay the law of Moses beside the gospel of Jesus Christ you find they are contrary at most any point
you find patterns ands shadows of the gospel in the law but what I’m saying is the actual doctrine what Moses commanded d what Jesus taught is contrary because they are for different purposes
ahold everyone guilty of every sin so they will turn tonthe lord who’s come to forgive us and teach us the right way to go in order to walk a pleasing life before him
we want to go to Jesus he is all sufficient without Moses law which is there to condemn and make everyone guilty while Jesus is trying to change our minds and tell us “your forgiven now follow me “
no we acknolwedge the purpose of the law is this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
And because we acknowledge the purpose of the law regards sin and guilt , we acknowledge the effect of the law in the world regarding sin and death
“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
1 Corinthians 15:56 KJV
At this point we can acknowledge that this is true
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
airs not that we think the law is “ too hard “ it’s that the law is contrary to the gospel .
at he law is meant to impute every man’s sin upon them and prove them guilty
“what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
And the gospel is about remitting sin the opposite of imputing sin and holding it against someone
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
So you have the laws purpose which came first
what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
And the gospel which came after that was established which is to justify those proven sinners by the law
“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
it’s why Jesus teachings contrast against Moses teachings they are meant for opposite purposes
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( Moses teaching hold the sin against the person and repay them evil for evil )
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
v don’t hold sin against others and rely them evil with evil but instead bless those which have offended you
One testament is about imputing sin and making it known
The other is about remitting sins and calling men to repentance and following the lords word not Moses word but Jesus word the spirit
if you lay the law of Moses beside the gospel of Jesus Christ you find they are contrary at most any point
you find patterns ands shadows of the gospel in the law but what I’m saying is the actual doctrine what Moses commanded d what Jesus taught is contrary because they are for different purposes
ahold everyone guilty of every sin so they will turn tonthe lord who’s come to forgive us and teach us the right way to go in order to walk a pleasing life before him
we want to go to Jesus he is all sufficient without Moses law which is there to condemn and make everyone guilty while Jesus is trying to change our minds and tell us “your forgiven now follow me “
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Since we under the law of Christ, it would be His commandments.
Here is a good starting place —
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10
Love does no harm to his neighbor.
If we steal from our neighbor or covet his things, we are not loving our neighbor.
Like I mentioned previously…
As we walk before Him in His presence, in His Spirit, we are empowered to keep His Commandments, the way Abraham did.
And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5
The way the New Testament described “walking before Him and being blameless“ is to walk according to the Spirit.
To be led by the Spirit.
JLB
Here is a good starting place —
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10
- and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love does no harm to his neighbor.
If we steal from our neighbor or covet his things, we are not loving our neighbor.
Like I mentioned previously…
As we walk before Him in His presence, in His Spirit, we are empowered to keep His Commandments, the way Abraham did.
And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5
The way the New Testament described “walking before Him and being blameless“ is to walk according to the Spirit.
To be led by the Spirit.
JLB
amen we’re in the spiritual testsment of Jesus not the carnal testament of Moses
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; ( a commandment )and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment
Moses judgement ordained by an unforgiving angel )
but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
Matthew 5:21-22 KJV
Our word is inside not outward . The idea is if we don’t allow ourself to hate , we aren’t going to ever kill someone and the commandment “ don’t kill “ becomes irrelevant To us we already are following the spirit which teaches us to focus on inner things like grudges , hate , lust because that’s the only reason we kill and commit adultery and steal and lie ect
of we follow the spirit we’re not going to be killers and liars and thieves and won’t need to be warned “ don’t kill lie and cheat “
the gospel takes away the motivation for us to sin as we follow the spirit a man who doesn’t hate and lust and hold grudges and take revenge that man is t going to sin in those ways the gospel is aimed at this problem
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
so jesus teaches us dont lust in your mind and heart and look at others that way , don’t hold grudges in your heart against people forgive them quickly , don’t worship and desire money so much And become greedy
she’s teaching us how to overcome th at issue inside of us where sin corrupted us If we don’t have the lusts to sin we aren’t going to the inner motives removed changes the outward actions
telling sinners “ thou shalt not sin “ doesn’t help them it only condemns them teaching them how to repent inwardly and let Jesus heal the heart issues sets people free into the light
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; ( a commandment )and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment
Moses judgement ordained by an unforgiving angel ) but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
Matthew 5:21-22 KJV
Our word is inside not outward . The idea is if we don’t allow ourself to hate , we aren’t going to ever kill someone and the commandment “ don’t kill “ becomes irrelevant To us we already are following the spirit which teaches us to focus on inner things like grudges , hate , lust because that’s the only reason we kill and commit adultery and steal and lie ect
of we follow the spirit we’re not going to be killers and liars and thieves and won’t need to be warned “ don’t kill lie and cheat “
the gospel takes away the motivation for us to sin as we follow the spirit a man who doesn’t hate and lust and hold grudges and take revenge that man is t going to sin in those ways the gospel is aimed at this problem
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
so jesus teaches us dont lust in your mind and heart and look at others that way , don’t hold grudges in your heart against people forgive them quickly , don’t worship and desire money so much And become greedy
she’s teaching us how to overcome th at issue inside of us where sin corrupted us If we don’t have the lusts to sin we aren’t going to the inner motives removed changes the outward actions
telling sinners “ thou shalt not sin “ doesn’t help them it only condemns them teaching them how to repent inwardly and let Jesus heal the heart issues sets people free into the light
You really need to understand this better.
Moses and the old Testament was all about Jesus. Jesus was central to the cerimonial laws and you can find Jesus in most events that were recorded.
God does not change. The law does point out sin but Jesus forgives and has made a way to atone us from the guilt of the sin.
You are setting Jesus and the moral law against each other.
Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Faith does not make the law void.
If we are trying to save ourselves by keeping the law in our strength then faith is not being exercised.
But if the law is being written on our hearts by faith we are following Jesus.
Rom 7:7-25
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
The law is spiritual, holy, good, and a delight after the inward man.
But the law points out sin and wars against the Spirit , it shows our condition which is death.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Thank God for Jesus...
I myself might serve the Law of God.
The law is still working today to convict us of sin.
But Jesus is able to forgive and save.
Moses and the old Testament was all about Jesus. Jesus was central to the cerimonial laws and you can find Jesus in most events that were recorded.
God does not change. The law does point out sin but Jesus forgives and has made a way to atone us from the guilt of the sin.
You are setting Jesus and the moral law against each other.
Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Faith does not make the law void.
If we are trying to save ourselves by keeping the law in our strength then faith is not being exercised.
But if the law is being written on our hearts by faith we are following Jesus.
Rom 7:7-25
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
The law is spiritual, holy, good, and a delight after the inward man.
But the law points out sin and wars against the Spirit , it shows our condition which is death.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Thank God for Jesus...
I myself might serve the Law of God.
The law is still working today to convict us of sin.
But Jesus is able to forgive and save.
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their is a difference...
Jesus's death made the moral law void
Or...
Jesus's death paid the penalty for the moral law.
If the moral law was removed because Jesus lived it perfectly, that means we can steal and murder with no guilt.
If Jesus paid the guilt it means the law is still convicting us but the price of death is paid in full.
I still feel guild when i sin.
Jesus did fulfill the cerimonial laws that were added because is sin to help Israel understand salvation. These ceremonial laws are no longer needed because Jesus is the antitype(fulfilment) of them.
He is the lamb, the high preist, the first fruits, the unleavened bread, the attoinment and everything else they pointed to.
If it is still sin the steal the law must still be in place.
Jesus's death made the moral law void
Or...
Jesus's death paid the penalty for the moral law.
If the moral law was removed because Jesus lived it perfectly, that means we can steal and murder with no guilt.
If Jesus paid the guilt it means the law is still convicting us but the price of death is paid in full.
I still feel guild when i sin.
Jesus did fulfill the cerimonial laws that were added because is sin to help Israel understand salvation. These ceremonial laws are no longer needed because Jesus is the antitype(fulfilment) of them.
He is the lamb, the high preist, the first fruits, the unleavened bread, the attoinment and everything else they pointed to.
If it is still sin the steal the law must still be in place.
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“You really need to understand this better.”
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17 KJV
The law given by Moses
“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
Exodus 21:23-25
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21
The lords true word first he addresses what Moses law said
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
then he speaks his contrary instruction
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
I’m pretty basic so I can understand it’s contrary to what Moses said
Another very clear example of someone is willing to hear what they don’t already think they know for sure
The law of marriage and divorce specific to the land of Israel given by Moses thier mediator
“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 KJV
The people who that law was given to by Moses for the land of Israel asking Jesus about it and his contrary answer
“The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
…..Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
Matthew 19:3, 6-9
If I were to obey Moses law of marriage I would be commiting adultery according to Jesus the Lord and his word because it’s contrary it’s not possible to obey Moses law and Jesus word of eternal
Life and Gods righteousness
moses said “ if you get married and then don’t want to be married because you find an issue with your wife simply divorce her and send her away and she may go and remarry another .
air I’m trying to live by that law I’m going to have to reject what Jesus said “ only if someone commits adultery are you to divorce and if they go and remarry or whoever marries the divorce is commiting adultery
they even ask “ why did Moses command us differently ? He answers because your hearts were hard
airs somoly impossible for someone to obey what Moses taught the children of Israel d also obey Jesus Christ and the gospel it’s not possible because they are contrary
aid you want to follow God you just need to hear and believe the gospel and follow what you learn from the gospel
The law is for these folks
“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11 KJV
those folks are drawn to the law for this purpose
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
It’s for murderers so it tells them “ you better not kill or the others must kill you “
Its for adulterers so it says “ you better not commit adultery or others must kill you “
Its for liars and perjurors not says “ you better not lie , you better not bear false witness or whatever your lying about against another must be done by them to you “
It was always meant to last until Christ came forth with the gospel
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
…Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; ( jesus )
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (In the gospel )
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Galatians 3:10-12, 19, 23-25
a ot often when we think we understand better than what’s plainly written it will cause is to think everyone else needs to understand it better but we never allow our self to understand what’s plain
“Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
more scripture is how we understand each single verse
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” ( of faith )
Romans 3:21-23, 27-28, 31 KJV
Moses and the children of Israel who had no Holy Ghost in them established ot law ,
Christian’s who follow the gospel and are filled with Gods spirit establish the law of Christ in the earth
at he teo testwments are as different as a sinner who won’t repent and has a corrupt sinful human spirit
And a new born child of God filled with his spirit and deemed forgiven and accepted
a you don’t raise believes children treating them like wicked sinners “ don’t lie or else “ Thats what you tell a habitual liar to restrain the lies in them
But if someone chooses to follow
Moses it’s not my issue brother I’m pretty sure that I’m on the right track when I say we only need to accept Jesus and the gospel and that will lead us home to him
aid we will open up our thoughts to scripture it’s going to teach us things we never thought or never understood like we imagined
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17 KJV
The law given by Moses
“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
Exodus 21:23-25
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21
The lords true word first he addresses what Moses law said
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
then he speaks his contrary instruction
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
I’m pretty basic so I can understand it’s contrary to what Moses said
Another very clear example of someone is willing to hear what they don’t already think they know for sure
The law of marriage and divorce specific to the land of Israel given by Moses thier mediator
“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 KJV
The people who that law was given to by Moses for the land of Israel asking Jesus about it and his contrary answer
“The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
…..Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
Matthew 19:3, 6-9
If I were to obey Moses law of marriage I would be commiting adultery according to Jesus the Lord and his word because it’s contrary it’s not possible to obey Moses law and Jesus word of eternal
Life and Gods righteousness
moses said “ if you get married and then don’t want to be married because you find an issue with your wife simply divorce her and send her away and she may go and remarry another .
air I’m trying to live by that law I’m going to have to reject what Jesus said “ only if someone commits adultery are you to divorce and if they go and remarry or whoever marries the divorce is commiting adultery
they even ask “ why did Moses command us differently ? He answers because your hearts were hard
airs somoly impossible for someone to obey what Moses taught the children of Israel d also obey Jesus Christ and the gospel it’s not possible because they are contrary
aid you want to follow God you just need to hear and believe the gospel and follow what you learn from the gospel
The law is for these folks
“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11 KJV
those folks are drawn to the law for this purpose
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
It’s for murderers so it tells them “ you better not kill or the others must kill you “
Its for adulterers so it says “ you better not commit adultery or others must kill you “
Its for liars and perjurors not says “ you better not lie , you better not bear false witness or whatever your lying about against another must be done by them to you “
It was always meant to last until Christ came forth with the gospel
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
…Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; ( jesus )
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (In the gospel )
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Galatians 3:10-12, 19, 23-25
a ot often when we think we understand better than what’s plainly written it will cause is to think everyone else needs to understand it better but we never allow our self to understand what’s plain
“Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
more scripture is how we understand each single verse
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” ( of faith )
Romans 3:21-23, 27-28, 31 KJV
Moses and the children of Israel who had no Holy Ghost in them established ot law ,
Christian’s who follow the gospel and are filled with Gods spirit establish the law of Christ in the earth
at he teo testwments are as different as a sinner who won’t repent and has a corrupt sinful human spirit
And a new born child of God filled with his spirit and deemed forgiven and accepted
a you don’t raise believes children treating them like wicked sinners “ don’t lie or else “ Thats what you tell a habitual liar to restrain the lies in them
But if someone chooses to follow
Moses it’s not my issue brother I’m pretty sure that I’m on the right track when I say we only need to accept Jesus and the gospel and that will lead us home to him
aid we will open up our thoughts to scripture it’s going to teach us things we never thought or never understood like we imagined
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That's all interesting and I thank you for your insights.
I wonder though, how folks with like minds as you on this issue, separate the "Law" into
Moral and Ceremonial? I'm not aware of any distinction between the two in Scripture...
I feel guilt too whenever I don't follow will of God. However, I don't seem to feel a necessity
to associate my sins with a written law... it's something internal that makes me not only to not
want to murder, but not even get angry with another. I don't really struggle so much with trying
to not commit adultery but lusting after shapely women brings me pain. And in regard to stealing
from another, it isn't the letter of the law that haunts me as in my avarice. I want things like a new,
shiny car, and one of those grand homes with a small yard and picket fence. That troubles me?
Hope those distinctions make sense?
I believe that Jesus fulfilled all Laws, see? Not just the mere letter of the Law, but truly, in His heart
He didn't preoccupy His mind with things that we (normal folks?) are attracted to. And I believe that
He is in the process of renewing my mind to quit looking at carnal/material things to fulfill me in any
way. That's been a hard lesson for me, and I praise His patience with me.
I have no need for a written Law as long as the Holy Spirits is convicting me. Still, I do think that the
whole of the Mosaic Law(s) can help me as a guide... a better than average guide than some moral
principles set forth by sociologists might.
I wonder though, how folks with like minds as you on this issue, separate the "Law" into
Moral and Ceremonial? I'm not aware of any distinction between the two in Scripture...
I feel guilt too whenever I don't follow will of God. However, I don't seem to feel a necessity
to associate my sins with a written law... it's something internal that makes me not only to not
want to murder, but not even get angry with another. I don't really struggle so much with trying
to not commit adultery but lusting after shapely women brings me pain. And in regard to stealing
from another, it isn't the letter of the law that haunts me as in my avarice. I want things like a new,
shiny car, and one of those grand homes with a small yard and picket fence. That troubles me?
Hope those distinctions make sense?
I believe that Jesus fulfilled all Laws, see? Not just the mere letter of the Law, but truly, in His heart
He didn't preoccupy His mind with things that we (normal folks?) are attracted to. And I believe that
He is in the process of renewing my mind to quit looking at carnal/material things to fulfill me in any
way. That's been a hard lesson for me, and I praise His patience with me.
I have no need for a written Law as long as the Holy Spirits is convicting me. Still, I do think that the
whole of the Mosaic Law(s) can help me as a guide... a better than average guide than some moral
principles set forth by sociologists might.
Those two commandments Jesus was speaking about are listed in John in the same dialog. But you didn't quote those commandments. Talk about cut and paste!
And even the Sabbath command from the Torah was all about Faith in Jesus the Messiah. That's why it's in between the two commandments about Names and Identities. It's not an arbitrary location.
And even the Sabbath command from the Torah was all about Faith in Jesus the Messiah. That's why it's in between the two commandments about Names and Identities. It's not an arbitrary location.
You have said so much, its hard to reply to each point...
I'll try.
Moses didn't give the 10 commandments, God did. God spoke them and wrote them down.
God gave moses the cerimonial laws and moses wrote them down.
Because of the hardness of their hearts God set it up that way. But we are told that the laws that were ADDED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION, would end with Christ.
I totally agree. But that is not every law in the old testament.
Is it a sin to steal today?
Can i lie and believe its okay?
I agree with you and the bible verses about faith being our righteousness not works of the law.
Because the law reveals our sin we are all lost when it comes to working our way to Heaven. But Jesus obeyed it perfectly and wants to give us the perfect robe of righteousness. So by faith and faith alone we can be perfect.
Do you stop here...? Many stop at this point.
The bible tells me that as a child of Christ i should act like one.
I shouldn't sin because of grace, not break the law because of faith, not act selfishly and disobediently because Jesus has paid the price.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rom 6:13, 14,
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Love for Jesus will motivate a desire to obey.
You'll not obey if you don't know what is right or wrong.
If the law is thrown away what defines good and bad?
Jesus... yes and Jesus obeyed the law, He kept the sabbath perfectly, He never lied, He obeyed the Spirit. Jesus is the perfect example of obeying the law.
There is a difference between keeping the moral law to be saved, and keeping it because you are saved.
I'll try.
Moses didn't give the 10 commandments, God did. God spoke them and wrote them down.
God gave moses the cerimonial laws and moses wrote them down.
Because of the hardness of their hearts God set it up that way. But we are told that the laws that were ADDED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION, would end with Christ.
I totally agree. But that is not every law in the old testament.
Is it a sin to steal today?
Can i lie and believe its okay?
I agree with you and the bible verses about faith being our righteousness not works of the law.
Because the law reveals our sin we are all lost when it comes to working our way to Heaven. But Jesus obeyed it perfectly and wants to give us the perfect robe of righteousness. So by faith and faith alone we can be perfect.
Do you stop here...? Many stop at this point.
The bible tells me that as a child of Christ i should act like one.
I shouldn't sin because of grace, not break the law because of faith, not act selfishly and disobediently because Jesus has paid the price.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rom 6:13, 14,
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Love for Jesus will motivate a desire to obey.
You'll not obey if you don't know what is right or wrong.
If the law is thrown away what defines good and bad?
Jesus... yes and Jesus obeyed the law, He kept the sabbath perfectly, He never lied, He obeyed the Spirit. Jesus is the perfect example of obeying the law.
There is a difference between keeping the moral law to be saved, and keeping it because you are saved.
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Maybe i didn't explain it clearly.
To love God with all your heart is to obey Him.
The first 4 of the 10 commandments are about love to God.
To love your neighbour as yourself is summed up in the last 6 of the 10 commandments.
To obey the 10 commandments is to love God and your neighbour.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The Sabbath was made holy and blessed before sin. Before we needed a saviour the sabbath was given to mankind.
To love God with all your heart is to obey Him.
The first 4 of the 10 commandments are about love to God.
To love your neighbour as yourself is summed up in the last 6 of the 10 commandments.
To obey the 10 commandments is to love God and your neighbour.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The Sabbath was made holy and blessed before sin. Before we needed a saviour the sabbath was given to mankind.
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And you still didn't post the two commandments Jesus gave that he said to keep "if you love him".....I'm wondering if you even know what they are.
The cost of being a follower of Jesus is very high...the commandments ARE grevious. You can claim they are not but that doesn't make it so.
Count the cost....it's not something as cheap as money. And if you can't/don't want to pay ....then don't begin the journey.
Besides....Modern Sunday is the Sabbath of old. Constantine changed the name of the days of the week. The Levitical council closed before it could come to a vote. But they had the proof and the correct calendar to prove it..
Maybe you should study a bit more when dealing with something as important as an immortal lifespan. I wouldn't ever rely upon one person or group to tell me...I'm kinda peculiar in that way.
The cost of being a follower of Jesus is very high...the commandments ARE grevious. You can claim they are not but that doesn't make it so.
Count the cost....it's not something as cheap as money. And if you can't/don't want to pay ....then don't begin the journey.
Besides....Modern Sunday is the Sabbath of old. Constantine changed the name of the days of the week. The Levitical council closed before it could come to a vote. But they had the proof and the correct calendar to prove it..
Maybe you should study a bit more when dealing with something as important as an immortal lifespan. I wouldn't ever rely upon one person or group to tell me...I'm kinda peculiar in that way.