Free Will - A More Exhaustive Look

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

But what if the Lord shows Himself to a person in a most Powerful way? When this happens, ie, a person experiencing the Almighty Power of God in His form of Peace and Love, it is impossible NOT to Love Him.

The beauty of Duet 30:6 is that God will Circumcise the hearts of His Holy Elect "so that" they will Love Him. Not my words, but those of the Bible:

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!"

Deut 30:6 says that He [does] cause His Elect to Love Him.

What do you think about this verse? Is it True or False?

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

oyster67 said:

No one has shown me anything that would cause me to change my mind. If you want to go "back" to get to the "real story", go further back in Romans chapter 1 . . . and what do we find? The Plan of God.

Romans 1:2-4 NLT - "God promised this Good News long ago through his prophets in the holy Scriptures. 3 The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was born into King David's family line, 4 and he was shown to be the Son of God when he was raised from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is Jesus Christ our Lord."

Do you acknowledge the Plan of God as Paul describes in Ephesians chapters 1 and 3?

Sir, I think it is you that doesn't understand context . . . again. And the context of the Bible is that there is an Eternal Plan. Are you familiar with it and how the Lord executes this Plan? If so, show me.

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

2 Samuel 15:31 NLT - "When someone told David that his adviser Ahithophel was now backing Absalom, David prayed, "O LORD, let Ahithophel give Absalom foolish advice!"

This is the second prayer of David where he called upon God to take control of his enemy's mind so that their “counsel” would be bogus. Can you imagine that? David is literally praying that the Lord would control Ahithophel’s mind and mouth so that his advice will be utter foolishness. So this tells me that if David, the Father of Christ, calls upon God to control the thoughts and words of another, then we, too, can ask the Lord for the same thing as we relate to our enemies. Who is it in your life that is causing you grief? Perhaps it is time to ask the Lord to take control of their minds and to turn things in your favor! What do [you] think about that? And if the Lord does in fact change the way a person thinks, does this go against a person's sense of free will?

And considering that only one or two, here, actually agree with the Scriptures that I am offering, are the majority of you praying that God would change me and the way that I think? If so, are you violating my sense of free will?

Thewatchman · Jun 23, 2022

God does not force us to love Him when He showes us that love, that grace we want to love Him. My wife and I started dating in 1971, we go married in 1974 I love her more today than I did the day we got married. She did not make me love her more. Her caring for me standing by me showing me that she loved me even when I was not the most loveable person makes me love her all the more. It is the same way with Jesus and God He loves us unconditional and because of that love we want to return it.
This is the way I see it

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

Thewatchman said:

Then explain the following:

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!"

Thewatchman · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

2 Samuel 15:31 NLT - "When someone told David that his adviser Ahithophel was now backing Absalom, David prayed, "O LORD, let Ahithophel give Absalom foolish advice!"

This is the second prayer of David where he called upon God to take control of his enemy's mind so that their “counsel” would be bogus. Can you imagine that? David is literally praying that the Lord would control Ahithophel’s mind and mouth so that his advice will be utter foolishness. So this tells me that if David, the Father of Christ, calls upon God to control the thoughts and words of another, then we, too, can ask the Lord for the same thing as we relate to our enemies. Who is it in your life that is causing you grief? Perhaps it is time to ask the Lord to take control of their minds and to turn things in your favor! What do [you] think about that? And if the Lord does in fact change the way a person thinks, does this go against a person's sense of free will?

And considering that only one or two, here, actually agree with the Scriptures that I am offering, are the majority of you praying that God would change me and the way that I think? If so, are you violating my sense of free will?

We can ask him to intervean nd change minds, and He may or may not do it for us. Know this what ever He dose is for our best intrest.

Thewatchman · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

I am not sure what you are trying to ask. God says:

King James Version Ezekiel 36:26-27 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

Thewatchman said:

Wait a second . . . you acknowledge that you pray to God and ask that He change a person, yet you have a problem with these verses that I am exposing? I don't get it. How can you ask God to change a person, yet deny that God controls the thoughts, choices, and behaviors of others?

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

Thewatchman said:

That is correct. And I don't know how to make my questions any more clear.

oyster67 · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Truth.

You refuse to be shown.

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

@Thewatchman

Have you ever struggled with porn? How about swearing? How about lust for actual women that you meet? How about stealing? Alcoholism? Drug addiction? Have you ever felt out of control of yourself to the point where you begged that God would change you because you could not change yourself? Have you ever identified with Paul when he wrote:

Romans 7:19-20 NLT - "I want to do what is good, but I don't. I don't want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it."

So, what about you? And if you have prayed such a prayer, why would you deny that God causes us to change?

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

oyster67 said:

You refuse to accept Scripture. The day your heart turned against me, you have been extremely difficult.

oyster67 · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

horsefeathers.

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Conditional on their repentance and turning back to Him.

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

oyster67 said:

Clearly, you have not experienced the Power of God's Love. I hope that one day you will, for when you do, your entire perspective will change. That said, you don't trust what I say . . . and it is a waste of both of our time to convince you of anything. I'm not here to convince you of anything, for I recognized long ago, after your heart turned against me, that I did not have the influence to teach you a single thing, nor am I interested.

oyster67 · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

I love you, but your ideas are way out in left field. Jesus gave His life to give us an opportunity to accept His salvation. This is not difficult.

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 23, 2022

oyster67 said:

I doubt it. For many months you have been rude and insolent. And because of this, I have chosen not to respond to the things that you say which are way out in "left field." If we went to the same church, and if you spoke to me in person the way you have written to me here, I'd either stay away from you or leave the church entirely. There is nothing about you that I desire to emulate.

oyster67 · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

I trust what the Bible says. I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings, but...

Jude
1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

oyster67 · Jun 23, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

God helps us to change.

oyster67 · Jun 23, 2022

Thewatchman said:

God does not force us to love Him when He showes us that love, that grace we want to love Him. My wife and I started dating in 1971, we go married in 1974 I love her more today than I did the day we got married. She did not make me love her more. Her caring for me standing by me showing me that she loved me even when I was not the most loveable person makes me love her all the more. It is the same way with Jesus and God He loves us unconditional and because of that love we want to return it.
This is the way I see it

Amen

FreeGrace2 · Jun 23, 2022

oyster67 said:
The Bible is not the problem. Your misinterpretation and failure to acknowledge context is where the trouble lies. You have been shown the context and meaning, and you have the freewill choice to reject it.

2ndTimothyGroup said:

That would be explained by having closed eyes and ears. Mind already made up, no need for facts. Or truth.

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