Free Will compatible with Sovereignty

[ForestGreenCook]

God has created humans with the will to choose, otherwise it belittles God into someone who pre-programmed people to glorify Him, which would be in-genuine. This is a wonderful thing that God did when He made us-He gave us the choice and this is why we will be accountable as to whether we accepted or rejected His Son. This does not mean we deserve anything; it only means we are not fools, for the fool hath said in his heart that there is no God. It means that we love Him because He first loved us; it means that we are humbly and eternally grateful, and we never think that we can boast for it is by grace we are saved.
God created us like this.
God is just. He would not be so unjust as to create babies and children in order for them to be cast into Hell for it is not His will hat any should perish, nor indeed is it His character, for He is full of compassion, so much that He bled and died on the cross for us while we were yet sinners. If you think that any scripture is saying contrary to this, then go and study in more depth than just your English translations because the scripture were not written in the first place in such a limited language; Hebrew for example is a much more complex language, and those who translated the English versions were mere humans. Study to show yourselves approved.
If you have ears to hear, in humility, you will consider this and do it. If you want to cling onto theology that you have been taught by mere men, who have caused you to perceive the scriptures in a different way than they were meant then you will continue in this divisive and wicked doctrine, and be answerable to the Most High for teaching it to others. It is a damaging and cruel doctrine for sure, and I sincerely hope you will prayerfully consider this.

Your reference to God not to be willing that any should perish, if I am not mistaken, comes from 2 Pet 3:9, which says; The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. The "any" in this verse are "the any that Peter is talking to".

We have to go back to 2 Pet 3:1 to understand who Peter is talking to, and he is talking to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is warning them of the importance of repenting when they sin. Peter also includes himself, by using the word "us-ward". Perish in this verse means being separated from God's fellowship.

Once that we have been born again spiritually, and commit a sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, until we repent. The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14, who has not been born again will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.

 

[Dave-L]

Why would God command men everywhere to do something they cannot...I hate how Calvinists apply verses of the Bible to fit in with their thinking when often these verses apply to those who have already received Christ.

You see it your way, others see it their way. In this case the bible is a Rorschach Test revealing the intents of the heart.

 

[Dave-L]

Sounds like the Lord Jesus Christ to me.

Only if you treat the bible as a Rorschach test.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You see it your way, others see it their way. In this case the bible is a Rorschach Test revealing the intents of the heart.

I guess I am not as smart as you, because I do not understand what "a Rorschach test" is. Can you educate me?

 

[Dave-L]

I guess I am not as smart as you, because I do not understand what "a Rorschach test" is. Can you educate me?

Ink blot test they test a person's sanity through.

 

[Nehemiah6]

All mankind is not commanded to repent of breaking a spiritual law.

More rejection and twisting of the PLAIN STATEMENTS of Scripture.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at [overlooked]; but now commandeth all men every where to repent*: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)

*Strong's Concordance (3340)
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Definition: to change one's mind or purpose
Usage: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
...to change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins:

 

[ForestGreenCook]

More rejection and twisting of the PLAIN STATEMENTS of Scripture.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at [overlooked]; but now commandeth all men every where to repent*: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)

*Strong's Concordance (3340)
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Definition: to change one's mind or purpose
Usage: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
...to change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins:

The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he does not understand is a law. Only the person who understands spiritual laws will repent of breaking one of them. All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truth of them, because scripture proves scripture. You are giving the natural man the capabilities of the spiritual man, and that contradicts scripture.

The natural man has a stony heart, that cannot be pricked to feel guilt, Eze 36:26-27, and the spiritual man has been regenerated and been given a new heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel guilt.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Jesus said, "Your faith has made you whole," faith in who? In Him of course...if the woman had faith and Jesus had no power to make whole her faith wouldn't have worked. By grace we are saved THROUGH faith; it is the gift of God."
Faith would be of no effect unless God in His grace had given us the perfect sacrifice of Christ. It is the BLOOD that saves, not our decision... our decision would never bring us any glory or reason to boast, it would only make us fools if we did not decide to follow Him and trust in His blood. It pleases Him when we do.

 

[Butterflyyy]

The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he does not understand is a law. Only the person who understands spiritual laws will repent of breaking one of them. All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truth of them, because scripture proves scripture. You are giving the natural man the capabilities of the spiritual man, and that contradicts scripture.

The natural man has a stony heart, that cannot be pricked to feel guilt, Eze 36:26-27, and the spiritual man has been regenerated and been given a new heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel guilt.

Man was made in God's image; yes he is lost in sin, however, God still created him with the capability to choose life or death, God or self. In the Garden of Eden he gave humans the choice; He could have made a garden without the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil. Calvinist doctrine makes a mockery of scriptures such as," To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams" 1 Sam 15:22

 

[Butterflyyy]

I appreciate your concern for me, as we should all be concerned for each other. I do believe that God is just and compassionate in all of his endeavors. It is true that God granted mankind the freedom to choose how they wanted to live their lives, and their choices got them into serious trouble. If you have studied your bible, you must be knowledgeable of Psalms 53:2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is what God saw by his foreknowledge, which made it necessary for him to choose an elect people out of those that would not seek him, Eph 1, and send his Son to adopt them as his children, by his death on the cross, for the adoption price.

It is no wonder, that you are so confused about your understanding of the scriptures, if you do not believe that the scriptures were divinely written, as if it were by God's own hand. I, also, hope you will prayerfully consider what I have posted to you. May God be with you in your spiritual journey.

Just for your information; I do not consult other men's writings for their interpretation of the scriptures. I believe that scripture proves scripture, and they must all harmonize if you are to understand the truths within them.

You are talking utter rubbish.
And I can assure you I am not confused about my understanding of the scriptures; a rather arrogant and presumptuous statement you made.

 

[Butterflyyy]

You are talking utter rubbish.
And I can assure you I am not confused about my understanding of the scriptures; a rather arrogant and presumptuous statement you made.

You are adding to scripture because of your very obviously pre-conceived ideas -that you say you haven't got from men (lol you don't even realise)

 

[Butterflyyy]

I appreciate your concern for me, as we should all be concerned for each other. I do believe that God is just and compassionate in all of his endeavors. It is true that God granted mankind the freedom to choose how they wanted to live their lives, and their choices got them into serious trouble. If you have studied your bible, you must be knowledgeable of Psalms 53:2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is what God saw by his foreknowledge, which made it necessary for him to choose an elect people out of those that would not seek him, Eph 1, and send his Son to adopt them as his children, by his death on the cross, for the adoption price.

It is no wonder, that you are so confused about your understanding of the scriptures, if you do not believe that the scriptures were divinely written, as if it were by God's own hand. I, also, hope you will prayerfully consider what I have posted to you. May God be with you in your spiritual journey.

Just for your information; I do not consult other men's writings for their interpretation of the scriptures. I believe that scripture proves scripture, and they must all harmonize if you are to understand the truths within them.

Of course, brain-washed people normally don't realise they are brain-washed. I will pray for you.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Your reference to God not to be willing that any should perish, if I am not mistaken, comes from 2 Pet 3:9, which says; The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. The "any" in this verse are "the any that Peter is talking to".

We have to go back to 2 Pet 3:1 to understand who Peter is talking to, and he is talking to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is warning them of the importance of repenting when they sin. Peter also includes himself, by using the word "us-ward". Perish in this verse means being separated from God's fellowship.

Once that we have been born again spiritually, and commit a sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, until we repent. The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14, who has not been born again will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.

"Christ died for ALL"... and it is very wrong of you to add to this scripture.

 

[Butterflyyy]

You are talking utter rubbish.
And I can assure you I am not confused about my understanding of the scriptures; a rather arrogant and presumptuous statement you made.

When did I once state that I do not believe that the scriptures were divinely written???
Are you trying to suggest that every time a human translates from the original (which WAS divinely written) that the human gets it right?? It is not possible to translate perfectly from the Hebrew and Greek into English.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are talking utter rubbish.
And I can assure you I am not confused about my understanding of the scriptures; a rather arrogant and presumptuous statement you made.

You might do well to reread your post #79, before referring to me as being arrogant and presumptuous.

Jesus said, "Your faith has made you whole," faith in who? In Him of course...if the woman had faith and Jesus had no power to make whole her faith wouldn't have worked. By grace we are saved THROUGH faith; it is the gift of God."
Faith would be of no effect unless God in His grace had given us the perfect sacrifice of Christ. It is the BLOOD that saves, not our decision... our decision would never bring us any glory or reason to boast, it would only make us fools if we did not decide to follow Him and trust in His blood. It pleases Him when we do.

Again, you are trying to quote scripture without giving book, chapter and verse. Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. "and that not of yourselves", makes it clear that "faith" in this verse is not man's faith, but the faithfulness of Jesus going to the cross. Compare this with Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith "of" (not in) Jesus Christ.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

"Christ died for ALL"... and it is very wrong of you to add to this scripture.

Sorry, but I am not adding to the scripture. I quoted it just like it appears in the KJV. You are reading the "all" out of context. It has reference to all that is in his hearing.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When did I once state that I do not believe that the scriptures were divinely written???
Are you trying to suggest that every time a human translates from the original (which WAS divinely written) that the human gets it right?? It is not possible to translate perfectly from the Hebrew and Greek into English.

But it is possible to look up the original Greek meaning from a Greek concordance. Do you study from the original Greek transcripts?

 

[John146]

Sorry, but I am not adding to the scripture. I quoted it just like it appears in the KJV. You are reading the "all" out of context. It has reference to all that is in his hearing.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

 

[Whispered]

I think if we consider the Biblical definition as pertains to God's Sovereignty that would help also.
Sovereignty [N]
of God, his absolute right to do all things according to his own good pleasure ( Daniel 4:25 Daniel 4:35 ; Romans 9:15-23 ; 1 Timothy 6:15 ; Revelation 4:11 ).

If we accept that God is Sovereign and Omniscient (infinitely aware), then the question of our free will would I think be a matter of saying, our choices may stand to overcome God's predestination of the foreordination of the individual and their life. Both pertaining to God ordains what will happen in human history and in salvation.

How then do we reconcile the idea that we have the right to freely choose anything, including whether or not to follow Christ, with God's own words that tell us: "A person may plan his path,but Adonai directs his steps. " The Book of Proverbs chapter 16
Mayhaps we just think we're freely choosing for ourselves. When it is God that is leading us to choose whatever path we end up on?

 

[garee]

How is Free Will compatible with Sovereignty?

Many wrestle believing free will is incompatible with Divine Sovereignty. But I think the Westminster Confession, and the London Baptist confession solved this paradox some 300 years ago. From the LBC consider:

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15, 18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

Here is the same in modern English provided by the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

1. God, from all eternity, did—by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will—freely and unchangeably ordain whatever comes to pass. Yet he ordered all things in such a way that he is not the author of sin, nor does he force his creatures to act against their wills; neither is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

The way I understand this is, we freely choose what we want but our choices always follow the reasons (secondary causes) under God’s control that we base our choices on.

Free will is to do the will patterned after the Creator and designer . It was lost in the garden.It was not God's intention that mankind obey the will of another. Its the kind of food at first the disciples knew not of . Doing the Sovereign will of God.