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He sure can do new things and does new things but truth is truth and that does not change.
You were speaking for example about the means God uses to bring a person into a closer relationship to Himself and how He would speak to a person today.
He would still rebuke the self righteous and speak tenderly to the brokenhearted, just as He did back then. And the means of bringing a person into a closer relationship is also the same...through His Word we know Him better and the better we know Him the truer our worship and fellowship with Him will be.
You were speaking for example about the means God uses to bring a person into a closer relationship to Himself and how He would speak to a person today.
He would still rebuke the self righteous and speak tenderly to the brokenhearted, just as He did back then. And the means of bringing a person into a closer relationship is also the same...through His Word we know Him better and the better we know Him the truer our worship and fellowship with Him will be.
G
What can "I am the ... truth" (John 14:6) contribute here? Could there be allowance for a progressive revelation of truth here? I would think so. Just as our knowledge of a person increases as our relationship with him lengthens, so can our comprehension of truth increase as we mature in our relationship with God.
Right... the Scriptures were written at a time and place... and a style for that time, place... so it's important consider the historical context of the documents when applying them to today... I'll agree with that...
A similar idea I was considering recently... Jesus lived as a wandering homeless rabbi... we don't have examples of how He would have lived as a family-man, holding down a 9-5 job, mowing His lawn on the weekend... so perhaps it's best to err on the 'gentleness' side of things... which Paul says is a fruit of the Spirit...
A similar idea I was considering recently... Jesus lived as a wandering homeless rabbi... we don't have examples of how He would have lived as a family-man, holding down a 9-5 job, mowing His lawn on the weekend... so perhaps it's best to err on the 'gentleness' side of things... which Paul says is a fruit of the Spirit...
J
That is a very interesting question & quote...and I thank you for posing the question.
First & foremost, my brother, I believe we need to clearly communicate the idea that Fundamentalists are not Christians; they are a cult all their own.
We must not argue with them but lovingly live out Christian calling in dependency to Christ praying for direction, guidance, courage, & love to maintain our call to love.
Unfortunately, it doesn't require faith to be a fundamentalist; its fanaticism & I believe we need to stop confusing Christianity & Fundamentalism.
It has to be considered one of the greatest irony as a Fundamentalist’s absolutism is the very opposite of faith. Fundamentalists have no questions; only answers.
Fundamentalists do not have faith; they traded it for absolute, heartless conviction.
Fundamentalists are certain that they possess the Truth (Capital 'T') & this certainty quickly devolves into dogmatism & a self-righteousness; which solidifies into a sense of Pride in being so very right.
Unfortunately, Fundamentalists have found the perfect antidote to thought. They know everything there is to know & that they & they alone are right.
Fundamentalism, in my opinion, is an ideal refuge from the demands of real faith.
We have to recognize as Christians that true faith has no easy answers. It’s difficult & stubborn. It involves an ongoing struggle; a continual questioning of our beliefs; a continuous wrestling with issues & ideas and most important a total dependency on Christ.
And yet we, the vast & all too quiet silent majority have ceded the public arena to this extremist minority.
We need to effectively communicate the true tenets of Christianity; reaching out to a lost world with the Love of God in Christ. We need to live out the Christian life in the strength of Christ being known by & for our love & our faith.
First & foremost, my brother, I believe we need to clearly communicate the idea that Fundamentalists are not Christians; they are a cult all their own.
We must not argue with them but lovingly live out Christian calling in dependency to Christ praying for direction, guidance, courage, & love to maintain our call to love.
Unfortunately, it doesn't require faith to be a fundamentalist; its fanaticism & I believe we need to stop confusing Christianity & Fundamentalism.
It has to be considered one of the greatest irony as a Fundamentalist’s absolutism is the very opposite of faith. Fundamentalists have no questions; only answers.
Fundamentalists do not have faith; they traded it for absolute, heartless conviction.
Fundamentalists are certain that they possess the Truth (Capital 'T') & this certainty quickly devolves into dogmatism & a self-righteousness; which solidifies into a sense of Pride in being so very right.
Unfortunately, Fundamentalists have found the perfect antidote to thought. They know everything there is to know & that they & they alone are right.
Fundamentalism, in my opinion, is an ideal refuge from the demands of real faith.
We have to recognize as Christians that true faith has no easy answers. It’s difficult & stubborn. It involves an ongoing struggle; a continual questioning of our beliefs; a continuous wrestling with issues & ideas and most important a total dependency on Christ.
And yet we, the vast & all too quiet silent majority have ceded the public arena to this extremist minority.
We need to effectively communicate the true tenets of Christianity; reaching out to a lost world with the Love of God in Christ. We need to live out the Christian life in the strength of Christ being known by & for our love & our faith.
about the idea that the Scriptures are God's truth for all times... I very much agree... and, how do we read Scriptures, so that we can get God's truth? Does the Bible tell us how to read it? a story...
The first time I read Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain, I thought that Twain was a racist for the terrible things he said about black people. Much later, I started to suspect that he was actually mocking people who held those attitudes. Now, if Twain, a human author, can use literary devices like that, could God do the same? I think so...
If the above makes sense to you, then well and good... if not, then let us both walk by the Spirit, and blessings upon you...
The first time I read Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain, I thought that Twain was a racist for the terrible things he said about black people. Much later, I started to suspect that he was actually mocking people who held those attitudes. Now, if Twain, a human author, can use literary devices like that, could God do the same? I think so...
If the above makes sense to you, then well and good... if not, then let us both walk by the Spirit, and blessings upon you...
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).
Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.
Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.
The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC847).
Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.
These can be saved by what later came to be known as "baptism of blood" or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).
The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.
However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.
Catholic Answers
Salvation Outside the Church
Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.
Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.
The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC847).
Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.
These can be saved by what later came to be known as "baptism of blood" or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).
The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.
However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.
Catholic Answers
Salvation Outside the Church
@Vaudeville, what does it matter what the Church Fathers said? Didn't orthodox Christian theology start with Martin Luther 1600 years after Christ? Who cares what Augustine or Athanasius or any one else said! Faith alone! Just me and my bible and faith alone, that's all I need to not fall into heresy!
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What do we need a bunch of old manuscripts by what you call "Church Fathers" for? I got my trusty Gideon's bible, that's all I need. Christian theology is whatever my faith tells me it is, as it is in the BIBLE, ya dig it? I don't need no "Vicar of Christ" or so called tradition! Faith and bible alone baby! The Holy Spirit will tell me what is good or bad theology!
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If only those Catholics would just have some faith instead of trusting all of these Popes and "Fathers of the Church" and non-bible theology sources. I agree with you Vaudeville, Martin Luther is TRUE THEOLOGY, he knew not to trust those Catholic and their "tradition"! Catholics are so judgmental for claiming that people who ultimately reject Christ will go to Hell How dare they! Such intolerance they show! I'm glad we're on the same page Vaudeville, keep up the fight for true bible-centric sola-scriptura Martin Luther theology! Yea!
G
I like and agree with almost everything that you said except for the first. There are Christians with fundamentalist in almost all denominations of Christianity--some more than others. My heart reaches out for them. They think they have faith, but as you said there really is no need for faith in the fundamentalist's attitude of certitude. One writer I read called it "The Religion of Certainosity."