Fundamentalism

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gamlet

Guest
#141
#141
crossnote said:
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Yes, most definitely but once we come into that truth it would be wrong to treat it as 'one truth among many'. We would hold on to it dogmatically, if you will.
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That would be the fundamentalist attitude that I am speaking against. Some would call it dogmatism. Dogmatism has little allowance for the growth of truth.
 
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gamlet

Guest
#142
#142
Dan_473 said:
about the idea that the Scriptures are God's truth for all times... I very much agree... and, how do we read Scriptures, so that we can get God's truth? Does the Bible tell us how to read it? a story...

The first time I read Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain, I thought that Twain was a racist for the terrible things he said about black people. Much later, I started to suspect that he was actually mocking people who held those attitudes. Now, if Twain, a human author, can use literary devices like that, could God do the same? I think so...

If the above makes sense to you, then well and good... if not, then let us both walk by the Spirit, and blessings upon you...
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What you said does make a lot of sense to me.
 
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gamlet

Guest
#143
#143
Vaudeville said:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).
Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.

Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.

The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC847).

Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.

These can be saved by what later came to be known as "baptism of blood" or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).

The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.

However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.

Catholic Answers
Salvation Outside the Church
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As was previously posted by others in this thread, salvation is God's decision, not man's. It is not within the compass of church authority to affirm salvation for its members and deny it to anybody.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#144
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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#144
gamlet said:
As was previously posted by others in this thread, salvation is God's decision, not man's. It is not within the compass of church authority to affirm salvation for its members and deny it to anybody.
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say, here's another way of looking at the situation...
there is one body...
one church...
the church is the body of Christ...
the church is the body of Christ on earth...
as Christ had the authority on earth to forgive sins... or pronounce woes... so the church, as Christ on earth, has that authority...

this is the position, I think, of the Catholic Church, and I think too the Orthodox Church... many Protestants disagree with it... in part, I think, because the immediate question is 'which church is the body of Christ on earth...?' the Protestants that believe in a single church usually see it as being a mystical, maybe symbolic body... not something that could have authority...
 
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