Fundamentalist Thread

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
Why would Jesus have to be feamale to accomplish what He did? He was the lamb of god (neuter as far as I know) as a sacrifice for our sins, his actual sex is irrelevant to what was done on the cross.

As for the men versus women part the bible is clear that from the beinning men and woman was equal, it was sin that led to the rest. Besides, woman are ONLY to submit to men who submit to God. Furthermore, one is to submit to each other

It is strane that so many quote 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

and so few quote 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
Just for your (and anyone else's) information: I always seek the Holy Spirit in the interpretation of the Word of God. My initial understanding of Scripture comes from a reading of the text and prayer alone. I may turn to other sources after I have read the text and prayed, but I will never let a human writing contradict what God's Word says on its own.

When I was 5 or 6, I read Genesis for the first time. To me, it was obviously poetic speech. Keep in mind that at that age, no one had tried to teach me about evolution. I had no reason to think the world was any particular age. I was being raised in a fundamentalist church and a fundamentalist family, taught that Scripture was the Word of God (which I still believe). I started by praying to God, thanking Him for giving me the ability to read, and picked up the book and read. It was obvious to me that that God wrote Genesis 1 as a story: a beautiful story, but it was as obviously fiction as Jesus' parables were. That's just how it was.

In the four decades since then, I have read (and written) countless scholarly works on Biblical interpretation. Some of them affirmed that first reading on my own, and some contradicted it. If I read something written by man that challenges my own understanding, I go back to the text. I pray, and I read. And if God opens my mind, sometimes I do see multiple interpretations. (Sometime a single verse can have 3, 4, or 5 TRUE interpretations, all of which are exactly what God intends to say.) And sometimes I get a clear answer of, "No, this is not what God is saying. This contradicts what you know about God." And sometimes I don't get a clear answer one way or another, so I study and pray some more. That's how it works.

If you tell me that your understanding of Genesis is absolutely spirit-led, I will submit and say we just have different understandings. God is not the author of confusion, so I don't know why God would say one thing to one person and something else to another, but I do know that God is infinitely good and does not lie, so I hold on to that and move on.

However, I have to wonder how many people who hold this "literal, non-poetic" interpretation of Genesis really read it that way with an open mind, and how many people were indoctrinated to say it was literal before they ever read it. I do not mean to offend, but from where I'm sitting, it so looks like a bunch of people are looking at the sky and calling it green. I sit here saying, "Uh, no, it's blue," and they just insist that it's green. The only way I can make sense of it is to figure somewhere along the line someone taught them wrong. I have no other way to wrap my mind around it.

I don't know if this makes sense to any of you. But it is so frustrating for me, seeing people call the sky green and the grass pink.
The problem that you have is that you do not want to be under a pastor-teacher that God has raised up for the church to learn the word and doctrine and you think you can do it all on your own, but you can't and God has not designed His body as such in receiving the word. I have been over this many times and have explained the scriptures on this, but many insist that they have the Holy Spirit and have no need for a man to teach them. That is being foolish and it is a form of resisting the authority of the word that God has set up for the church. The ones who are raised up of God to preach and teach are imperfect human beings just like you and I and they are growing in grace and knowledge of Christ like everyone else. However, they have a calling and they are equipped and anointed for the task of what they have been called to do.
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
The problem that you have is that you do not want to be under a pastor-teacher that God has raised up for the church to learn the word and doctrine
Not true. I have submitted to dozens -- maybe hundreds of teachers and pastors to learn Scripture. I have met a handful of men and women who claim to have that knowledge but are clearly puffed up, but I have also had the pleasure and honor to sit at the feet of many, many God-filled teachers, and listen to them preach about Scripture.

Sorry, it might make it easier to discard my view if you believed that I didn't listen to pastors and teachers that God has raised up. Unfortunately for you, that just isn't the case.

and you think you can do it all on your own, but you can't and God has not designed His body as such in receiving the word.
I do not think I can do it all on my own, and I have said so several times. I know that without God, I cannot do it at all. I am never on my own -- I always have God at my side.

And I will thank you very much to remember that, please, and not tell untruths.
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
Why would Jesus have to be feamale to accomplish what He did?
I don't think Jesus "had" to be female. I think Jesus had to be human, and human is both male and female. I think that's what (sorry, I forget who brought this up) is saying. (Though I could be misunderstanding.)

his actual sex is irrelevant to what was done on the cross.
Amen!

As for the men versus women part the bible is clear that from the beinning men and woman was equal, it was sin that led to the rest. Besides, woman are ONLY to submit to men who submit to God. Furthermore, one is to submit to each other

It is strane that so many quote 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

and so few quote 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Isn't that funny?

I also like your signature line. You rock!
 
E

edward99

Guest
Duh. That's because the grammatical gender of the Holy Spirit is female.
Really.
Fun and games with grammar from the lady who was insistent we be precise.

spirit in greek is pneuma and is gender-neutral.
ruach in hebrew (Gen 1) is feminine.

But does the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew have anything to do with actual gender identity? NO. duh.

There are no gender-neutral pronouns in Hebrew.

God used masculine terminology to refer to Himself. We're taught to speak of Him in masculine relational terms.
There's no biblical basis whatsoever for calling the Holy Spirit female/she.

It's popular with liberal feminist higher critics though.
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
But does the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew have anything to do with actual gender identity?
Did I say it did?

My feelings precisely.

So, are you saying that when someone refers to the Church as "she," you think the speaker means it has boobs?

Hon, we're having a grown-up conversation now. Let us know if and when you're ready to join us without snickering at potty jokes.
 
O

OFM

Guest
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS MALE,ALLWAYS HAS AND WILL BE.
 
R

redemption

Guest
So Jesus was a transgender? ROFL!!!! I am not reduced as a woman by being in submission to my husband and "OUR Father". You can't make God a woman cause He is what He is not what we think He should be. Bless your heart.
 
E

edward99

Guest
Did I say it did?

My feelings precisely.

So, are you saying that when someone refers to the Church as "she," you think the speaker means it has boobs?

Hon, we're having a grown-up conversation now. Let us know if and when you're ready to join us without snickering at potty jokes.
Was I snickering at potty jokes? You're the one making vulgar comments in a discussion of the Godhead.


Following yet more pontification by The Diva, where after much finger-wagging about the proper way to study - she eventually obliges us concerning academics, then makes a very special point of assigning a feminine identity to The Holy Spirit.

What a precious moment.

I agree to a point.

Yes, I do think that understanding the cultural and historical context of a particular passage is important in coming to its proper interpretation.

However, I hesitate to make this a "requirement." There have been plenty of times when some PhD with all the letters after his name reads a passage of Scripture and talks for hours about it, and never really gets it, while some simpleton who never graduated from high school can look at it and say, "Oh, here's what's going on." And sometime that "simpleton" has a better grasp than the professor.

So I guess I'm saying yes, learn history, learn ancient Greek and Babylonian culture, but never for a second think that that education can replace the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
Oh hun. You're so hip!
And so edgy!



Too bad about that not knowing what Jesus was hanging on the Cross for though.
 
O

OFM

Guest
O.K THE GODHEAD THE SACRED BLESSED HOLY TRINITY IS A MALE,ALLWAYS HAS AND WILL BEE IF YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM WITH THIS THEN JUST ASK ="OUR HEAVENLY FATHER" SO END OF DISCUSSION AND THATS THAT, .O.K.
 
O

OFM

Guest
So Jesus was a transgender? ROFL!!!! I am not reduced as a woman by being in submission to my husband and "OUR Father". You can't make God a woman cause He is what He is not what we think He should be. Bless your heart.

I AGREE THE HOLY SPIRIT CHOOSE TO BE A MALE AS DID OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
E

edward99

Guest
It is so hardhead to think anything esle. what does a man think he because on the a cross a man alone or both a man and a women thereby givien brith to what is to become the new creation. Pighead men are just as bad as pighead women who both preach where the better sex thats just nuts.
So, while in The Throne Room did your god say your jes*s was hermaphrodite?
And that he/she on the cross gave birth to the new creation?

Or did you work that one out all on your own?
Lonely under that bridge?

Gal 1:9
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
Was I snickering at potty jokes?
Yes, you were. You seemed to be embarrassed and you were certainly confused about the difference between grammatical gender and sexual identity. The grammatical gender of something rarely has anything to do with its sexual identity. It is simply a way of referring to something. Examples: the Church is a "she." Boats (and often cars) are referred to as "she." When people use this pronoun, they are not making any sort of sexist statement.

When you refer to God as "he," and you making a statement that he has male genitalia? If not, then why must you assume that referring to the Spirit as "she" implies the same? I am not saying that The Holy Spirit is a girl. I am acknowledging that the word "spirit" has a female grammatical gender. In the same way, God is not a man, but we use the word "he" when we refer to him.

I will grant you that grammatical gender is not as common in English as it is in other languages. I do understand when a younger or uneducated mind is distracted by the occasional "she" where they might be used to hearing "it," just as some kids snicker when you refer to someone as "an historian." Like I said, snicker if you must. It only shows us where you are.

You're the one making vulgar comments in a discussion of the Godhead.
No, once again, I have done no such thing. I am strictly speaking in grammar. You're the one who can't seem to avoid returning to genitalia. If you really want to go there, you're welcome to go there, but I will not join you, thank you very much.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
Not true. I have submitted to dozens -- maybe hundreds of teachers and pastors to learn Scripture. I have met a handful of men and women who claim to have that knowledge but are clearly puffed up, but I have also had the pleasure and honor to sit at the feet of many, many God-filled teachers, and listen to them preach about Scripture.

Sorry, it might make it easier to discard my view if you believed that I didn't listen to pastors and teachers that God has raised up. Unfortunately for you, that just isn't the case.


I do not think I can do it all on my own, and I have said so several times. I know that without God, I cannot do it at all. I am never on my own -- I always have God at my side.

And I will thank you very much to remember that, please, and not tell untruths.
I am not of any number that discards anything that you may have learned on your own or from others. I am grateful that you have learned from others. I may not agree with some of your convictions and you do likewise with me. Either way we have been redeemed into one body and we have one Lord and one faith. It is the purpose of the Holy Spirit to guide every believer in the truth to be like-minded concerning our faith in the spirit of love and meekness for Christ's sake and the gospel's.

The Father and the Son were in agreement and the Holy Spirit has been given every believer that we might agree in one, have fellowship and so that their be no division and schisms in the body. When we have this unity and oneness in the word and doctrine that make up our faith, the kingdom of darkness is ineffective in destroying the testimony of Christ among those believers. This is why we are to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit, build ourselves up in the most precious faith and keep ourselves in the love of God. and as we do that Christ is revealed as our head and is lifted up that He might draw all men unto Himself.
 

Blu_Bug

Banned: consistant JW herecy
Jun 15, 2012
111
0
0
ALL of the angels are called SONS of God - GEN 6 is a good example.

The female wasnt used yet in Gods plan as seen in the god Head 1 Cor 11:3

God loves His creations and uses them all for special works...
 
E

edward99

Guest
Was I snickering at potty jokes? You're the one making vulgar comments in a discussion of the Godhead..
Let's take a trip back in time.

So I guess I'm saying yes, learn history, learn ancient Greek and Babylonian culture, but never for a second think that that education can replace the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
You are intentionally calling the Holy Spirit SHE.
That's it? Me 'snickering'?
At a 'potty joke'?


insert apology here >> _______________________

You seemed to be embarrassed .
For you, maybe a little.

and you were certainly confused about the difference between grammatical gender and sexual identity.
Nice try Diva.
Let's take another look:

So I guess I'm saying yes, learn history, learn ancient Greek and Babylonian culture, but never for a second think that that education can replace the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
You are intentionally calling the Holy Spirit SHE.
Duh. That's because the grammatical gender of the Holy Spirit is female.
Really.
Fun and games with grammar from the lady who was insistent we be precise.

spirit in greek is pneuma and is gender-neutral.
ruach in hebrew (Gen 1) is feminine.

But does the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew have anything to do with actual gender identity? NO. duh.

There are no gender-neutral pronouns in Hebrew.

God used masculine terminology to refer to Himself. We're taught to speak of Him in masculine relational terms.
There's no biblical basis whatsoever for calling the Holy Spirit female/she.

It's popular with liberal feminist higher critics though.

and you were certainly confused about the difference between grammatical gender and sexual identity.
No, I wasn't. (see above)
You were. (see below)
You presumed to refer to the Holy Spirit as a Feminine Entity.

.... the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
But does the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew have anything to do with actual gender identity? NO. duh.
There are no gender-neutral pronouns in Hebrew.
The grammatical gender of something rarely has anything to do with its sexual identity. It is simply a way of referring to something. Examples: the Church is a "she." Boats (and often cars) are referred to as "she." When people use this pronoun, they are not making any sort of sexist statement. .
swim harder Diva. You're sinking.
Sexism? Who said anything about that?
The Church is called she because she is referenced as wife or bride, the analogy of marriage is used.

Waiting to see your grammatical excuse (or any other) for this:

So I guess I'm saying yes, learn history, learn ancient Greek and Babylonian culture, but never for a second think that that education can replace the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
is this it?
(the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine)
that's amazing.

When you refer to God as "he," and you making a statement that he has male genitalia? If not, then why must you assume that referring to the Spirit as "she" implies the same? I am not saying that The Holy Spirit is a girl. I am acknowledging that the word "spirit" has a female grammatical gender. In the same way, God is not a man, but we use the word "he" when we refer to him.
Genitalia? There you go again.
Where'd that come from?
God describes Himself as Masculine.
So why don't you just insert apology here and stop making things worse? >>____________________________

I am not saying that The Holy Spirit is a girl
the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
Ridiculous.

I will grant you that grammatical gender is not as common in English as it is in other languages. I do understand when a younger or uneducated mind is distracted by the occasional "she" where they might be used to hearing "it," just as some kids snicker when you refer to someone as "an historian." Like I said, snicker if you must. It only shows us where you are.
Hmmmm...
Let's look again at who said what:

Was I snickering at potty jokes? You're the one making vulgar comments in a discussion of the Godhead..
Let's take a trip back in time.

So I guess I'm saying yes, learn history, learn ancient Greek and Babylonian culture, but never for a second think that that education can replace the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
You are intentionally calling the Holy Spirit SHE.
That's it? Me 'snickering'?
At 'potty jokes'?

You're the joke Diva.
You used the vulgarity and vulgar imagery.
Weird.

I had given you some measure of respect but this desperate attempt by you to cover over your own shame by making outrageous statements about me wipes that slate clean.

No, once again, I have done no such thing. I am strictly speaking in grammar. You're the one who can't seem to avoid returning to genitalia. If you really want to go there, you're welcome to go there, but I will not join you, thank you very much.
What? All I made was a single statement

So I guess I'm saying yes, learn history, learn ancient Greek and Babylonian culture, but never for a second think that that education can replace the Holy Spirit. It can supplement her (the Spirit, that is, Ruach, feminine), but never replace her.
right here:

You are intentionally calling the Holy Spirit SHE.
So, are you saying that when someone refers to the Church as "she," you think the speaker means it has boobs?

Hon, we're having a grown-up conversation now. Let us know if and when you're ready to join us without snickering at potty jokes.
Poor Diva.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
This is getting ridiculous. It's a spirit done. See i neither qualified male or female. Just the Holy Spirit, not Mr or Mrs...because it's: 1.not necessary to give it a gender 2. matters very little as far as anything salvation based goes.

Ha, problem solved.
 
R

rainacorn

Guest
I always refer to the Holy Spirit as 'He' simply because I'm talking about God.

The word itself may have some feminine situation going on, but I don't see Spirit as separate from God the Father or Jesus Christ, so I just stick with something easy that won't demand pages of useless backbiting and circular nonsense lol
 
E

enochson

Guest
So Jesus was a transgender? ROFL!!!! I am not reduced as a woman by being in submission to my husband and "OUR Father". You can't make God a woman cause He is what He is not what we think He should be. Bless your heart.
no not at all Have you read the book at all? THERE IS NO MALE OR FEMALE NO GENDER. where are you learning the junk you are talking or laughing about cause it's not in the new creation father is use because God is the creator of all and is in all.