Galatians Discussion

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
The letter is the ten commandments as they are written on stone.

The spirit is as they are written on the heart, in this form:

Galatians 5:16-24.
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
So the spirit of the law would include the folllowing:
Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speaking
Yet Peter, speaking to those he states are born again advises them to get rid of those things. You are in contradiction of peter
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
So the spirit of the law would include the folllowing:
Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speaking
Yet Peter, speaking to those he states are born again advises them to get rid of those things. You are in contradiction of peter
See post #580 (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4754233).

Good night.
 
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
My righteousness is in the blood of Jesus; I am set free to obey the law without condemnation because I know that i know that i know that I am justified by the blood of Jesus; and the law is indeed a blessing for me because I am not justified through law-keeping (James 1:25).
Yes, I understand your view. You are not justified by obeying the law, but you can only remain justified if you do not break the law. . Righteousness/justification as a believer hinges on not breaking the ten commandments
 
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
Justified not born of God.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: the old has gone, the new is here! 2Cor5:17



You are in Christ at the moment of conversion, obviously. A new creation, is a born again person. Your rigid interpretation of 1John3:5-9 is bringing you into contradiction of scripture all over the place. I know you can’t admit to error publically. But most sincerely, I would advise you to contemplate on your view a person cannot be born again until they are wholly sanctified, until then, they are simply righhteous/justified. I do not know of any other Christian who would believe that.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
SDA mmebers put it in a variety of ways.

You are justified by faith in Christ and are not under the law. You remain justified and not under the law as long as you do not break the law

You are justified by faith in Christ, that is your righteousness before God. However, love is the fulfilment of the law, so if you break the ten commandments you show you do not have the love of God in you, and therefore can no longer be justified

You are righteous apart from obeying the law, you are not under the law, however, if you follow after the Holy Spirit you will not break the ten commandments, so if you do break them, you can no longer be justified.

Jesus said if you love Him you will obey his commands. All of Jesus commands are derivitives of the Ten Commandments. So if you fail to keep that law you show you do not love Jesus.

It always comes back to the Ten Commandments, an expression used by no Apostle in any of their letters
If we were under the law we would need to use it to justify us, that would require perfection. We are under grace. When we are under grace we use the law to help us live in a state of grace with the Lord, that is to live in repentance to sin. The law tells us what sin is, it leads us in repentance.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
Yes, I understand your view. You are not justified by obeying the law, but you can only remain justified if you do not break the law. . Righteousness/justification as a believer hinges on not breaking the ten commandments
n We are not justified by being perfect, we are justified by being repentant.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
yeah we need to walk by the gospel and let donor the contrary Old Testament law

“Of course there is a righteousness in the law that will determine whether or not one is great in the kingdom or whether he is called the least (Matthew 5:17-20).”

yes for Jews under Moses law before Christ came preaching the gospel who lived under the old and new covenant t laws, they already Bore the yoke of it. Gentiles aren’t allowed under Moses law unless they convert to Judaism. It seperates Jew from all other people.

notice what the apostles decided about the law of Moses and Gentiles ( non Jewish people ) though ?

“we need to make those Gentiles into Jews first said the Pharisees “

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-8, 10, 13-20, 22-24‬ ‭

Shouldn’t we accept the apostles decision ? Given they were all Jews who had stopped living according to the law ? and living as Jesus commanded them instead ?

In Christ we’ve all already Been deemed sinners who weren’t good Enough to save our own selves just like all the other folks in the boat because of the law circulated in the world all nations of The world are guilty of sin and under indignation


“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

“For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭34:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no righteousness in the law but this kind

“Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews;

as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him,

not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:4-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭

that’s proven by the law of Moses all
Have sinned


“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once you sin

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
And so

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3, 6,7

Which means

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭KJV‬

And so
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and of course

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should believe the gospel it’s better for a better purpose
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
If we were under the law we would need to use it to justify us, that would require perfection. We are under grace. When we are under grace we use the law to help us live in a state of grace with the Lord, that is to live in repentance to sin. The law tells us what sin is, it leads us in repentance.

“The law tells us what sin is, it leads us in repentance.”

it leads to sin and death

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law is the letter it’s whatever is written
the gospel leads to repentance

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Well I don't think there's any point in going round and round in circles is there, so we had better just agree to disagree
Yeah. You should have just stated that you were SDA from the beginning.

Its getting old explaining scripture to people who don't have any desire to know what it means.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Yes, I understand your view. You are not justified by obeying the law, but you can only remain justified if you do not break the law. . Righteousness/justification as a believer hinges on not breaking the ten commandments
No; I am saying that being born again will sustain a lifestyle of holiness in my life; but that if I mess up or blow it, this does not change the fact that I have been justified, or had righteousness imputed to me (see Romans 4:5,11)
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: the old has gone, the new is here! 2Cor5:17



You are in Christ at the moment of conversion, obviously. A new creation, is a born again person. Your rigid interpretation of 1John3:5-9 is bringing you into contradiction of scripture all over the place. I know you can’t admit to error publically. But most sincerely, I would advise you to contemplate on your view a person cannot be born again until they are wholly sanctified, until then, they are simply righhteous/justified. I do not know of any other Christian who would believe that.
What scriptures am contradicting with this doctrine?

I would be happy to admit that I am wrong if you can show me to be wrong.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
yeah we need to walk by the gospel and let donor the contrary Old Testament law

“Of course there is a righteousness in the law that will determine whether or not one is great in the kingdom or whether he is called the least (Matthew 5:17-20).”

yes for Jews under Moses law before Christ came preaching the gospel who lived under the old and new covenant t laws, they already Bore the yoke of it. Gentiles aren’t allowed under Moses law unless they convert to Judaism. It seperates Jew from all other people.

notice what the apostles decided about the law of Moses and Gentiles ( non Jewish people ) though ?

“we need to make those Gentiles into Jews first said the Pharisees “

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-8, 10, 13-20, 22-24‬ ‭

Shouldn’t we accept the apostles decision ? Given they were all Jews who had stopped living according to the law ? and living as Jesus commanded them instead ?

In Christ we’ve all already Been deemed sinners who weren’t good Enough to save our own selves just like all the other folks in the boat because of the law circulated in the world all nations of The world are guilty of sin and under indignation


“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

“For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭34:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no righteousness in the law but this kind

“Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews;

as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him,

not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:4-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭

that’s proven by the law of Moses all
Have sinned


“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once you sin

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
And so

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3, 6,7

Which means

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭KJV‬

And so
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and of course

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should believe the gospel it’s better for a better purpose
In Romans 3:23, the words "come short" are in the present passive indicative; which indicates that it does not apply to those who who are active in seeking the Lord and His holiness.

And Galatians 3:10-12 applies to those who are seeking to be justified by the law. For those who know that they know that they know that they have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ, the law is not a curse but a blessing (James 1:25).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
“The law tells us what sin is, it leads us in repentance.”

it leads to sin and death

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law is the letter it’s whatever is written
the gospel leads to repentance

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭
What do we repent of but away from a lifestyle of sin?

And sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).
 
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
Yeah. You should have just stated that you were SDA from the beginning.

Its getting old explaining scripture to people who don't have any desire to know what it means.
Well Grandpa, if you know as much as you think you know, you are blessed indeed.
BTW I am not SDA.
 
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
No; I am saying that being born again will sustain a lifestyle of holiness in my life; but that if I mess up or blow it, this does not change the fact that I have been justified, or had righteousness imputed to me (see Romans 4:5,11)
But apparantly you are not born again until you are wholly sanctified. Jesus said no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. So, in your view, what happens if a person dies two days after becoming a christian? You believe they are righteous but obviously not born again/wholly sanctified. Do they go to hell?
 
Jan 15, 2022
271
24
18
What scriptures am contradicting with this doctrine?

I would be happy to admit that I am wrong if you can show me to be wrong.
Well, to follow after the Holy Spirit every moment of your life would require you to admit when you are wrong.
Peter stated to those he referred to as born again:
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.

Therefore, do you accept a person who is born again can still have malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy and slander in their life?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
it leads to sin and death‬ ‭
The law is only a tool. You can use it as the wonderful 119th Psalm tells us to use it or, like you say, you can follow the sin it tells you of and let it lead you to sin and death.

Christians use it to guide them in the path they follow in the footsteps of Christ. It is your choice.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
But apparantly you are not born again until you are wholly sanctified. Jesus said no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. So, in your view, what happens if a person dies two days after becoming a christian? You believe they are righteous but obviously not born again/wholly sanctified. Do they go to hell?
No, they don't go to hell. If someone who is justified dies without becoming born again, their entire sanctification (being born again) comes with a glorified body.

But the point that I would make is that entire sanctification is an obtainable goal in this life and therefore we ought to continue to strive for it.

I believe that if anyone has attained to it, they would be unaware of having attained to it (Job 9:21, Isaiah 42:19, John 9:41).

They would consider that they still have room to grow and would continue to press on toward the goal; being unaware that they have obtained it (Philippians 3:12-15, esp. v.15).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Well, to follow after the Holy Spirit every moment of your life would require you to admit when you are wrong.
Peter stated to those he referred to as born again:
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.

Therefore, do you accept a person who is born again can still have malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy and slander in their life?
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I think that you have merely presented an argument against the plain reality of the above scripture.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds.