Genesis 1

[tripsin]

I do not know who Pember was, but whatever his theory, he certainly gets the grammar and syntax of the first verses correctly in your quote.

And I did not know that the gap theory had entered in here. For the sake of clear discussion, let us identify that when it comes up. Certainly there have been faithful Christians who believed that. In my own discussion here I am NOT positing the Gap Theory. It is highly speculative that requires too much reading into Scripture and goes against sound exegesis. I do not believe it but it is certainly fair to discuss it.

Fair enough. But sometimes it is difficult to answer the questions without going into it some. I think it proves that theology still has a lot of questions to answer. There was a time when 'sound exegesis' taught that the earth didn't move which was in agreement with science at the time. But now we all know that is not so.

Just to clarify - I am not an evolutionist. Praise the Lord.

 

[LClark]

New Sripture a la gotime

"There is a pattern in the creation account.

Day 1 God makes heaven and earth but formless and void."

Compare actual Holy Scripture: "And God said, 'Let there be light';...And there was evening and morning, the first day."

There is a clear structure, each day begins, "And God said,..."

 

[tripsin]

Are you saying that sin was on this earth before Adam & Eve?

Iniquity - 1 Wickedness; sinfulness. 2 A wicked act; sin.

The Lord to Satan: "You were perfect (complete) in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you." Ez. 28:15.

Sin dwells in man's flesh (Rom. 7). Where do you think it came from?

 

[Laodicea]

Iniquity - 1 Wickedness; sinfulness. 2 A wicked act; sin.

The Lord to Satan: "You were perfect (complete) in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you." Ez. 28:15.

Sin dwells in man's flesh (Rom. 7). Where do you think it came from?

How about a simple yes or no answer? Was sin on this earth before Adam & Eve were created. Not that hard.

 

[tripsin]

1. good is not applied to the heaven which is between the waters that have been divided...this would be the air where birds, jets and missiles fly. It was not good because the prince of the power of the air and his hierarchal dominion as found in Ephesians were already here. Just my view mi amigo.

Cha-Ching!

 

[VCO]

This is a profound truth we sometimes forget. With God, time is eternal. God is the I AM. God uses time for us, we think in terms of physical time, God thinks in terms of eternal time. To understand scripture, we must understand this.

AMEN!

Another characteristic of GOD, that many fail to comprehend, is His Omnipresence.

HE is Omnipresent in not only every cubic inch of the Universe and Heaven, but HE is also Omnipresent in every second of time as we know it, all at the same time.

HE declares the End from the Beginning, because He is Omnipresent in all time.

HE Chose us and wrote our names in the Book of Life before the Foundation of the Earth, and still we have the freewill to Choose to receive Jesus as LORD, BECAUSE in His Omnipresence HE is PRESENT at every Conversion, the Beginning, and the End all at the same time.

WOW, GOD is MUCH BIGGER, than most people can think or fathom.

 

[tripsin]

How about a simple yes or no answer? Was sin on this earth before Adam & Eve were created. Not that hard.

We already went over this. I said Satan was already here and you disagreed.

When Adam did not believe God, disobeyed, fell; sin came in. From where?

 

[Laodicea]

We already went over this. I said Satan was already here and you disagreed.

When Adam did not believe God, disobeyed, fell; sin came in. From where?

You did not give a yes or no answer. Are you afraid to answer yes or no.

 

[VCO]

You have not answered. Satan was not here already before creation.

Satan, and all angels are spirit beings, not needing the physical realm of the Created Universe to exist.

With that in mind, WE and time did not exist, when the OMNIPRESENT Almighty GOD, did this:

Titus 1:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

NOW if Eternal Life was promised before the beginning of time, then
would it not be equally True that the promise of Eternal Punishment also
was promised before the beginning of time as we know it.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

John 8:44 (NKJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

That seems to clearly place Satan's rebellion RIGHT AT the beginning of Creation; but WHO did He murder?

1 John 3:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Most likely, Satan was guilty of murder from the beginning because he hated the angels who refused to join his rebellion against GOD. This then gives a LOT of credence to the biblical theory that GOD created the Angels of the spiritual realm, prior to the things of the physical realm, and Satan's rebellion and fall to earth, was at the beginning of Creation. If that all is TRUE, Satan went through one extremely wild and scary ride as GOD created the physical realm around Satan.

 

[tripsin]

You did not give a yes or no answer. Are you afraid to answer yes or no.

I have answered. You are not paying attention. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

 

[gotime]

New Sripture a la gotime

"There is a pattern in the creation account.

Day 1 God makes heaven and earth but formless and void."

Compare actual Holy Scripture: "And God said, 'Let there be light';...And there was evening and morning, the first day."

There is a clear structure, each day begins, "And God said,..."

Its not new scripture.

You assume that "and God said" marks the beginning of the days work. Assumptions need some bible based backing in order to be validated. So if you have something I am listening/reading.

Here is what scripture says:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


How many day's?

Answer: "six"

now answer me this, did God make water or the formless earth on the second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth day?

Have a read and you will find the answer is no. that only leaves one day left. namely the first. There is no option that I can see but to conclude that the heaven and earth and water were created on the First day.

Note also chapter 2.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

notice heavens plural. what heavens?

There are two heavens mentioned in Genesis 1. the heavens in which the sun moon and stars reside. and the heaven in which the birds fly. thus plural.

where was the heaven that the birds fly in created?

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Answer: Day 2 God made the heaven for the birds.

so on what day did God make the heaven for the sun moon and stars?

There is only one other place and it appears right at the beginning of the chapter.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Notice God "Created" thus the heaven and the earth that is void was part of the creation of God and as we have seen:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

what happened after the "Heavens" plural and the earth were created?

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

ahhh so the "heavens" plural were obviously created in six days being that this next day is the 7th. and "heavens" plural tells us that the heaven in verse 1 is included in this six day creation.

As you can see Scripture is pretty clear.

blessings.

 

[Laodicea]

I have answered. You are not paying attention. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

Because the Bible says this:-

Romans 5:12 KJV
(12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sin entered into the world through Adam, that is what the Bible says. By saying sin was in the world before Adam is not Biblical.

 

[just-me]

How about a simple yes or no answer? Was sin on this earth before Adam & Eve were created. Not that hard.

What does the Bible say about that? I have never read that is was or it wasn't. If the Bible doesn't say on way or another, why ask? another person? See thread “Asking about “God’s burden.” Why is it so wrong?” It goes right along with this topic.

 

[2Thewaters]

David talks about the power of God in Psalm 104 to bring the flood.
and then to create huge basins for the water to run into
God is not a wimp.
He speaks, and it is done, Sun, moon stars
animals, fish, and all mountains and trees

The spirit of God hovers over the waters, and over the word of God
when we read the word of God
and believe it in us
He creates all that he says... This is sanctification, Gods sanctification, the creative power of God
evolutionists dont believe it, and cannot change their basic character, because it takes a Genesis faith to be changed.

 

[just-me]

David talks about the power of God in Psalm 104 to bring the flood.
and then to create huge basins for the water to run into
God is not a wimp.
He speaks, and it is done, Sun, moon stars
animals, fish, and all mountains and trees

The spirit of God hovers over the waters, and over the word of God
when we read the word of God
and believe it in us
He creates all that he says... This is sanctification, Gods sanctification, the creative power of God
evolutionists dont believe it, and cannot change their basic character, because it takes a Genesis faith to be changed.

There is law of nature called creation in addition to the Mosaic law. It starts at Genesis 1:1 If we question God's creation outside of the information He has given to us, we are thinking carnally. That's my take.

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Those that want to survive adhere to the laws of nature. One cannot escape this if they want to live. Parables were taught by Jesus to bring the Spirit of creation together with the Spirit of truth via faith. The next verse describes survivors even though they didn't have the indwelling Holy Spirit. They just knew how to live with the nature of God's creation.

Romans 2:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Galatians 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

This is heritage that people are born into, and it cannot be changed.

 

[Oak]

No no question as the firmament is suppose to be the sky and heaven directly above that. The firmament is a barrier between the two universe

Back to original point....there is already disagreement on this thread about whether "heavens"in Gen 1:1 refers to just the sky(atmosphere) or the universe or the spiritual realm or all of the above.

Another problem, If angels and all of the heavenly realm is made on day 1 before God said "Let there be light" then is that light only for our universe or light in general because in Heaven there must be light to see the angels.
Also it is said that "God is light" and Heaven shines with the light of God so why speak light into existence if God in essence already emits light?
Which begs the question...Does God contain photons to be measured?

 

[Dwark]

You obviously did not read the article. You are wrongly using this verse.

You need to do more than only just claim that he is wrong. He offered a verse from scripture by the people who were close to the understanding of how that was meant to be understood and how they actually understood it. If you have some reason why that verse is being "wrongly used", then you need to support that counter statement with actual proof.

This is how we grow.

 

[RedTent]

New Sripture a la gotime

"There is a pattern in the creation account.

Day 1 God makes heaven and earth but formless and void."

Compare actual Holy Scripture: "And God said, 'Let there be light';...And there was evening and morning, the first day."

There is a clear structure, each day begins, "And God said,..."

You are misquoting scripture.

Gen 1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

It is essential to our understanding of our world that there is understanding of the difference between the light given by the light of God, and the light given by the sun and moon at creation. Given separately. Given on different days. Different.

 

[tripsin]

Because the Bible says this:-

Romans 5:12 KJV
(12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sin entered into the world through Adam, that is what the Bible says. By saying sin was in the world before Adam is not Biblical.

"Up to v. 11 sins (plural) have been dealt with. From v. 12 sin (singular) is dealt with. It seems that in chapters 5-8 sin is personified. Sin is not merely an action; it is like a person who can enter (v. 12), reign (v. 21), lord it over people (6:14), deceive and kill people (7:11), and dwell in people and cause them to do things against their will (7:17,20). It is quite alive (7:9) and exceedingly active; hence, it must be the evil nature of Satan, the evil one, who, having injected himself into man through Adam's fall, has now become the very sinful nature dwelling, acting, and working in fallen man. This indwelling, personified sinful nature is the root of all the outward sinful acts." RcV.

"World" = people of the world; referring to mankind. (John 1:29; 3:16).

Sin entered into the world through Adam. Meaning, sin was already here and now came into ruin all of mankind by using Adam. Sin was already here but Adam was the door.

 

[tripsin]

"Up to v. 11 sins (plural) have been dealt with. From v. 12 sin (singular) is dealt with. It seems that in chapters 5-8 sin is personified. Sin is not merely an action; it is like a person who can enter (v. 12), reign (v. 21), lord it over people (6:14), deceive and kill people (7:11), and dwell in people and cause them to do things against their will (7:17,20). It is quite alive (7:9) and exceedingly active; hence, it must be the evil nature of Satan, the evil one, who, having injected himself into man through Adam's fall, has now become the very sinful nature dwelling, acting, and working in fallen man. This indwelling, personified sinful nature is the root of all the outward sinful acts." RcV.

"World" = people of the world; referring to mankind. (John 1:29; 3:16).

Sin entered into the world through Adam. Meaning, sin was already here and now came into ruin all of mankind by using Adam. Sin was already here but Adam was the door.

P.S. Some translators believe that the 's' in Rom. 7:7 & 9 should be capitalized.