Genesis, sons of God, nephilim, and Giants

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cv5

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EDIT ^ : Nope. The MESSAGE to them came BEFORE they were "imprisoned"... (read again my post #206, more carefully!), which "having disobeyed" (speaking specifically of the ppl at time of FLOOD), they were taken away in judgment [DIED IN THE FLOOD] (and still to have the final sentence/judgment carried out at the GWTj).
The Fallen Angel/Sons of God amplification is exceedingly strong. When something is triple confirmed, and is supported by succinct textual criticism/exegesis then really it is the only supportable interpretation.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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BTW....there is zero Scriptural evidence indicating that there is anyone other than fallen angels in the abyss. Men are never mention to be in the abyss.
I haven't said they were/are.

1 Peter 3:19 doesn't use the word "abyss" but "G5438" instead.


[nasb] -

"but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went [having gone] and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison [G5438 - phylakē ], 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water."
 

cv5

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What do you imagine that the phrase "dwelling among them" means in the following verse (I had put)? :

"8 (for that righteous man, living among them [enkatoikōn - G1460] day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)—"



You are missing most of the idea being conveyed in the passage I supplied.
Dwelling among sinning men? I am dwelling among sinning men and they are not Spirits, demons or fallen angels.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Dwelling among sinning men? I am dwelling among sinning men and they are not Spirits, demons or fallen angels.
I cannot tell if you mean the "them" refers to "[unlawful/lawless] men" or to "fallen angels". Please clarify.

[I see where Genesis 13:13 states that "the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly"... and that in chapter 19 Lot entertained angels..."... it mentions "at even"... "all night"... "this night"... "when the morning arose"...]
 

cv5

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I haven't said they were/are.

1 Peter 3:19 doesn't use the word "abyss" but "G5438" instead.


[nasb] -

"but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went [having gone] and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison [G5438 - phylakē ], 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water."
Again I say....the term "spirit" in that verse is NEVER applied to men. I think that is perfectly conclusive. These are indeed fallen angels in the abyss.

πνεύμασιν (pneumasin) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 4:36 N-DNP
GRK: τοῖς ἀκαθάρτοις πνεύμασιν καὶ ἐξέρχονται
NAS: the unclean spirits and they come
KJV: the unclean spirits, and
INT: the unclean spirits and they come out

1 Timothy 4:1 N-DNP
GRK: πίστεως προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ
NAS: to deceitful spirits and doctrines
KJV: to seducing spirits, and
INT: faith giving heed to spirits deceiving and

1 Peter 3:19 N-DNP
GRK: ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
NAS: and made proclamation to the spirits [now] in prison,
KJV: and preached unto the spirits in
INT: in prison spirits having gone he preached
 

cv5

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I cannot tell if you mean the "them" refers to "[unlawful/lawless] men" or to "fallen angels". Please clarify.

[I see where Genesis 13:13 states that "the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly"... and that in chapter 19 Lot entertained angels..."... it mentions "at even"... "all night"... "this night"... "when the morning arose"...]
Look....you are just simply missing the sweep of the context.
Textually, and in terms of cross referencing, and in regard to NT demons being cast out.....there is no doubt. Gen 6, 1 & 2 Peter and every single occurrence of demons and unclean spirits in the NT are one and the same phenomenon. They are NOT MEN.

Good grief I hope that is enough lol.
 

CS1

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BTW....there is zero Scriptural evidence indicating that there is anyone other than fallen angels in the abyss. Men are never mention to be in the abyss.
Ok if you want to allegorize Use Jesus in the context of the Rich man and Lazarus In Luke 16:19-31. Where did that Rich guy go? hmmmm ,
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Again I say....the term "spirit" in that verse is NEVER applied to men. I think that is perfectly conclusive. These are indeed fallen angels in the abyss.

πνεύμασιν (pneumasin) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 4:36 N-DNP
GRK: τοῖς ἀκαθάρτοις πνεύμασιν καὶ ἐξέρχονται
NAS: the unclean spirits and they come
KJV: the unclean spirits, and
INT: the unclean spirits and they come out

1 Timothy 4:1 N-DNP
GRK: πίστεως προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ
NAS: to deceitful spirits and doctrines
KJV: to seducing spirits, and
INT: faith giving heed to spirits deceiving and

1 Peter 3:19 N-DNP
GRK: ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
NAS: and made proclamation to the spirits [now] in prison,
KJV: and preached unto the spirits in
INT: in prison spirits having gone he preached
In the grave they have no bodies (where they are now imprisoned--Job40:13). And the OT speaks of the spirit of man. And the NT speaks of "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." (speaking of the saved, here, yet distinguishing it from His, even then).
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Look....you are just simply missing the sweep of the context.
Textually, and in terms of cross referencing, and in regard to NT demons being cast out.....there is no doubt. Gen 6, 1 & 2 Peter and every single occurrence of demons and unclean spirits in the NT are one and the same phenomenon. They are NOT MEN.

Good grief I hope that is enough lol.
I'm saying the "men" are "men" and the "demons" are "demons" and distinguish them. Where one is being referred to may be distinct from where the other is being referred to, and careful examination will keep them distinct, as intended. ;)


So as it stands, I still cannot discern your answer to the question I posed.
 

cv5

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In the grave they have no bodies (where they are now imprisoned--Job40:13). And the OT speaks of the spirit of man. And the NT speaks of "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." (speaking of the saved, here, yet distinguishing it from His, even then).
Sorry. The term specific term "pneumasin" is never used of men.
 

CS1

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Dwelling among sinning men? I am dwelling among sinning men and they are not Spirits, demons or fallen angels.
you make a very good point because for Jesus words in Matthew about " as the days of Noah , so shall it be" we would need angels to have sex with women again to cause God to judge the earth. lol crazy Dan Brown scubala
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Ok if you want to allegorize Use Jesus in the context of the Rich man and Lazarus In Luke 16:19-31. Where did that Rich guy go? hmmmm ,
Well, this is a good example I think... Lazarus was evidently a person. The rich man, having died also, his body would certainly have been in a grave (yet he is speaking)…



[again, 1 Peter 3:19 doesn't use the word "abyss".. and check out Isa24:21-22 also]
 

cv5

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In the grave they have no bodies (where they are now imprisoned--Job40:13). And the OT speaks of the spirit of man. And the NT speaks of "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." (speaking of the saved, here, yet distinguishing it from His, even then).
Nope. Eisegesis. Fortunately, the text does not err in its terms for this very critical and important phenomenon. The text is concise, clear and unerring. These entities are NOT MEN.
 

CS1

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Sorry. The term specific term "pneumasin" is never used of men.
lol hey why don't you try to connect gen 6 with Mattthew 24 and 1pet 3 and tell us all how these scriptures prove angels had sexual relations with women .
 

cv5

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lol hey why don't you try to connect gen 6 with Mattthew 24 and 1pet 3 and tell us all how these scriptures prove angels had sexual relations with women .
I just did. Over and over and over and over again. And again. And again.

LOL. I am tired. Time for some expresso.
 

CS1

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I just did. Over and over and over and over again. And again. And again.

LOL. I am tired. Time for some expresso.
yea ...... not
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ "in which also He went and made proclamation

to the spirits now in prison"


They were still in bodies WHEN He went [in Spirit, back at the time leading up to the flood] and made proclamation [via Noah, a preacher of righteousness (1Pe1:11)]... and at the FLOOD they DIED (because, the text says, "having disobeyed"... they perished in the flood)
 

CS1

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^ "in which also He went and made proclamation

to the spirits now in prison"


They were still in bodies WHEN He went [in Spirit, back at the time leading up to the flood] and made proclamation... and at the FLOOD they DIED (because, the text says, "having disobeyed"... they perished in the flood)
Hey do you think they were like Joana in the belly of the great fish which Jesus called a Whale or the KJV did ?
 
L

LPT

Guest
The Fallen Angel/Sons of God amplification is exceedingly strong. When something is triple confirmed, and is supported by succinct textual criticism/exegesis then really it is the only supportable interpretation.
The concept fallen angels if I’m not mistaking is human phrase not mentioned in the Bible as fallen angels.

Did those who rebelled against God break their chains and had relationships with physical beings is that what your saying?

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;