Gift of Tongues: Contrary to Pentecost
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I'm sorry to be blunt, but now you're speaking out of ignorance. The Holy Spirit is a gentlemen, He doesn't just override your will, you must surrender. That surrendering, is your part. You speak and He then guides your speech. Its rather simple.
In the previous post to yours, I showed where the apostle Paul says he speaks in tongues and he'd rather speak five words with his understanding in church than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The point being, he is in control of his lips.
In the previous post to yours, I showed where the apostle Paul says he speaks in tongues and he'd rather speak five words with his understanding in church than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The point being, he is in control of his lips.
No, I don't realize it because it isn't there to be realized. 
I hope you can be open minded and see the following scripture clearly.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
The apostle Paul realized that he controlled this gift. He knew he could speak "ten thousand words in an unknown tongue" if he so wanted, but it wouldn't edify others. You see the Corinthians were using this gift out of order, right? How is it the Holy Spirit is the one that gives utterance but they were misusing the gift?
It is because the gift of tongues, speaking in tongues, is an act of our will, and the Holy Spirit gives utterance, or the words that we speak. You see if the gift is dependent upon the Holy Spirit activating it, then you are saying that the Holy Spirit was the author of confusion in Corinth.
Please also note, for the sake of dividing personal private use of this gift and public use read the apostle Paul's words carefully.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
He thanks the Lord that he speaks in tongues more than them all, but he says in the church (the public) he'd rather speak five words with his understanding than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The point being, he makes a difference between his use of speaking in tongues (private) and the public use in the church.
I hope you can be open minded and see the following scripture clearly. 1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
The apostle Paul realized that he controlled this gift. He knew he could speak "ten thousand words in an unknown tongue" if he so wanted, but it wouldn't edify others. You see the Corinthians were using this gift out of order, right? How is it the Holy Spirit is the one that gives utterance but they were misusing the gift?
It is because the gift of tongues, speaking in tongues, is an act of our will, and the Holy Spirit gives utterance, or the words that we speak. You see if the gift is dependent upon the Holy Spirit activating it, then you are saying that the Holy Spirit was the author of confusion in Corinth.
Please also note, for the sake of dividing personal private use of this gift and public use read the apostle Paul's words carefully.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
He thanks the Lord that he speaks in tongues more than them all, but he says in the church (the public) he'd rather speak five words with his understanding than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The point being, he makes a difference between his use of speaking in tongues (private) and the public use in the church.
Again, I say, how can scripture be so plain and still denied? VVhat blinds people from the truth? VVhat biases lurk behind their doctrines? It is as plain as day.
U
Again, I say, how can scripture be so plain and still denied? VVhat blinds people from the truth? VVhat biases lurk behind their doctrines? It is as plain as day.
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition (battalogeó/battalogēsēte) as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.” (Mat 6:7)
Also very interesting that,
Christian glossolalia is almost unheard of before 1901 Topeka Kansas?
The historical consensus is that glossolalia was not in any way a prominent part of the history of the early church. Early church rarely mentioned tongues in fact some were to have noted to have written that it had ceased.
So where was the Holy Spirit until 1901?
Why is speaking in tongues, the evidence for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, when it can clearly be learned and manifested by most people who attempt it? People who study linguistics have shown this time and again, shall I pull out the research?
Why can an angelic supernatural language be copied and imitated by undergraduate students who have had a few training sessions?
Why is this angelic language so strongly linked to their natural language sounds?
Again, I say, how can scripture be so plain and still denied? VVhat blinds people from the truth? VVhat biases lurk behind their doctrines? It is as plain as day.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Quite frankly you are so far from the truth of Gods word to make one wonder yet you look down your nose at those who are attempting to illustrate for you from scripture that your position is not what you think it is.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
U
If I cannot understand a prayer like the lady in the you tube video then it is a mystery or meaningless to me and I wonder if even she herself knows what she has said?
So you talk to God and you do not even know what you have said, when God gave us language that itself is based on understanding. How is it that a child learns language by hearing it, because God gave us the ability, He is the Logos, so now we have a language so sacred, an angelic prayer language that it is not understandable not even by the speaker?
That is inconsistent with the very nature of God and language.
My mind is actually not made up but I show scripture and I find no actual response, I give other information and still not adequate defense is presented.
What that woman is doing in the you tube video above was practiced long before the letter to the Corinthians. Do you know the temple prostitutes were known for ecstatic utterances. Why did Paul only have to correct the church of Corinth on this, the known most carnal church.
Please make an adequate scriptural defense and discuss.
So you talk to God and you do not even know what you have said, when God gave us language that itself is based on understanding. How is it that a child learns language by hearing it, because God gave us the ability, He is the Logos, so now we have a language so sacred, an angelic prayer language that it is not understandable not even by the speaker?
That is inconsistent with the very nature of God and language.
My mind is actually not made up but I show scripture and I find no actual response, I give other information and still not adequate defense is presented.
What that woman is doing in the you tube video above was practiced long before the letter to the Corinthians. Do you know the temple prostitutes were known for ecstatic utterances. Why did Paul only have to correct the church of Corinth on this, the known most carnal church.
Please make an adequate scriptural defense and discuss.
The praying in tongues is misunderstood by those who claim to do it. The scripture is saying that if you pray in a tongue then only you and God know want you are praying. You are praying in a human language that you understand but folks around you may not know. If you know more than one language and pray in one that others around you do not know they will not understand and will not be edified unless someone else is there to tell them what you prayed.
A language unknown to the hearers is not an unknowable language. Tongues as an unknowable language is pure conjecture by those who are caught up in the romantic notion that they are somehow hyper-spiritual.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
A language unknown to the hearers is not an unknowable language. Tongues as an unknowable language is pure conjecture by those who are caught up in the romantic notion that they are somehow hyper-spiritual.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
P
We are told to exercise these gifts. The holy spirit ministers to our spirit. When I speak in tongues the holy spirit places my spirit in a relaxed but very expressional focus is the only way I can explain it. I have interpeted what was said and at times not. Now my wife doesn't believe in tongues so I do have control on where and how .
P
Ever pray for someone's spirit in the spirit? I have. A church I used to go to had a visitor who only spoke Italian.
She broke out in crying because she could not understand what was being said but the reason why she came is because of her husband's passing and she sought comfort and this was the only church for miles. She didn't drive.
I had a nice conversation with her...We prayed....I don't speak a lick of Italian.
She broke out in crying because she could not understand what was being said but the reason why she came is because of her husband's passing and she sought comfort and this was the only church for miles. She didn't drive.
I had a nice conversation with her...We prayed....I don't speak a lick of Italian.
Reread the OP, then address it. That is my basis for my position, in part. On the previous page I referenced the apostle Paul speaking in tongues, but in church he'd rather speak intelligible words. He makes a distinction in his use of tongues, privately and publicly. It is clear through the many verses I have shared that your definition of tongues is inaccurate and inconsistent with scripture.
Yep the Spirit is subject to the speaker:
1 Co 14:32 And the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1 Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
1 Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
It's so simple. If tongues was to interpret. You wouldn't need an interpreter for tongues.
If tongues was to talk to people, Scripture wouldn't say you need to prophesy instead of speaking in tongues around people.
If tongues wasn't for today, Scripture wouldn't say to earnestly desire SPIRITUAL gifts. And to forbid no one to speak in tongues and EVERYONE to seek to prophesy.
1 Co 14:5Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.
1 Co 14:32 And the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1 Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
1 Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
It's so simple. If tongues was to interpret. You wouldn't need an interpreter for tongues.
If tongues was to talk to people, Scripture wouldn't say you need to prophesy instead of speaking in tongues around people.
If tongues wasn't for today, Scripture wouldn't say to earnestly desire SPIRITUAL gifts. And to forbid no one to speak in tongues and EVERYONE to seek to prophesy.
1 Co 14:5Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.
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Like all things to do with the Lord - the things of God only come by revelation that the Holy Spirit gives to all of us. We are all at different places in our lives and truth only comes by revelation. It will transform our mind as spiritual realities become known to us by the Spirit.
We cannot by our own human words explain things of the Spirit to others and have them to understand with the mind. It takes a revelation by the Holy Spirit within our spirit only. All the things of God operate on the same level. People will not "see" something in the Lord just because we say it although this is how we get faith as we are open to receive from the Lord new things.
The things of God are foolishness to the natural mind of man ( and all of us are ignorant about some areas of truth ) but these things can and will be revealed to us by the Holy Spirit if we are willing to "repent" - change our thinking when the Spirit reveals truth to us.
We cannot by our own human words explain things of the Spirit to others and have them to understand with the mind. It takes a revelation by the Holy Spirit within our spirit only. All the things of God operate on the same level. People will not "see" something in the Lord just because we say it although this is how we get faith as we are open to receive from the Lord new things.
The things of God are foolishness to the natural mind of man ( and all of us are ignorant about some areas of truth ) but these things can and will be revealed to us by the Holy Spirit if we are willing to "repent" - change our thinking when the Spirit reveals truth to us.
It's the Spirit praying through us, so we don't know what we are praying all the time.
Here is an interesting tongues video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuKG7Ivp-00
This girl speaks Polish and had no clue she was praying in tongues. I like this video because it gives us an idea of what we are praying.
Here is an interesting tongues video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuKG7Ivp-00
This girl speaks Polish and had no clue she was praying in tongues. I like this video because it gives us an idea of what we are praying.