Go and sin no more
- Thread starter carolineh
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F
I never said its say "a person can obey without God working through them" or that is says "a person CANNOT obey without God working through them".
It does not say either way. I showed the passages to show that obedience is choice we make. We dont have to, God wil not make us.
But Jn 14:15 says "IF" ye love me keep my commands. Meaning our love for Christ is conditional upon us obeying him.
If we have no freewill, then it is not love, but force.
As for obeying by God working through us, I dont really know what you mean. God tells us what to do, then we choose to, no not to.
Some choose not to obey, even after believing, confessing Christ, does this mean God stopped working in that person?
So I am kind of confused how you mean God works through us. I think his word/commands give us the knowledge of his will, so in that sense we then have the ability to obey him, sense we know what his will is. But I dont know if that is what you mean.
It does not say either way. I showed the passages to show that obedience is choice we make. We dont have to, God wil not make us.
But Jn 14:15 says "IF" ye love me keep my commands. Meaning our love for Christ is conditional upon us obeying him.
If we have no freewill, then it is not love, but force.
As for obeying by God working through us, I dont really know what you mean. God tells us what to do, then we choose to, no not to.
Some choose not to obey, even after believing, confessing Christ, does this mean God stopped working in that person?
So I am kind of confused how you mean God works through us. I think his word/commands give us the knowledge of his will, so in that sense we then have the ability to obey him, sense we know what his will is. But I dont know if that is what you mean.
would you say that a baby born into this world in only born by its own fee will in that it chooses to be born or that it is forced out into the world against its own free will...that is an illustration of how it is that we come to be spiritually born...God sets everything in motion so that we are no longer dead in our sins and slaves to sin but we are given a new birth in which God has filled us and so enabling us to respond to Him in love...without God we remain dead and our free wills are slaves to sin...it is not till God moves in us that we can freely choose Him..it is not forced..it is supernatural
F
Huh? So your saying babies have freewill but we do not?
If everyone has a will, but it is not freewill, then it is not their own will.
A babies will is a pointless argument in this case. If you want to believe they have "freewill" or "a will" then go ahead, because it changes nothing in the refutation I posted above. Out of everything I said, if the baby part is what you want to focus on, then be my guest.
A baby cannot be naturally inclined against God, a baby is innocent, does not know sin, and is not capable of violating any of God's laws.
So if a baby cannot violate any of God's laws, then a baby cannot have sin according to the definition of sin given by John (God) - I Jn 3:4.
A baby is probably the most closest thing to God on earth. He does not become separated from God until he grows and learns and develops his own lusts, and then obeys those lusts and then sins.
Then, in his/her life, he may hear the gospel, and the gospel tells him/her what to do to be cleansed of those sins.
Next, he must choose to accept or reject what he has heard. God does not make him do either.
Back to the baby argument: would you purposely have a child just to punish?
No that is sinful, immoral, and unjust. Why would we thing God created some people just for punishment, and then blame them for them being punished?
"and ye would not" + "ye did" shows who is to blame for not doing the will of the Father. We are.
God does not make some to be punished and others to be rewarded.
If everyone has a will, but it is not freewill, then it is not their own will.
A babies will is a pointless argument in this case. If you want to believe they have "freewill" or "a will" then go ahead, because it changes nothing in the refutation I posted above. Out of everything I said, if the baby part is what you want to focus on, then be my guest.
A baby cannot be naturally inclined against God, a baby is innocent, does not know sin, and is not capable of violating any of God's laws.
So if a baby cannot violate any of God's laws, then a baby cannot have sin according to the definition of sin given by John (God) - I Jn 3:4.
A baby is probably the most closest thing to God on earth. He does not become separated from God until he grows and learns and develops his own lusts, and then obeys those lusts and then sins.
Then, in his/her life, he may hear the gospel, and the gospel tells him/her what to do to be cleansed of those sins.
Next, he must choose to accept or reject what he has heard. God does not make him do either.
Back to the baby argument: would you purposely have a child just to punish?
No that is sinful, immoral, and unjust. Why would we thing God created some people just for punishment, and then blame them for them being punished?
"and ye would not" + "ye did" shows who is to blame for not doing the will of the Father. We are.
God does not make some to be punished and others to be rewarded.
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L
Go and sin no more. This is a topic that is discussed and debated among believers. As a Christian, I know that my sins have been blotted out because of the price that Jesus Christ paid when he was crucified on Calvary's tree over 2000 years ago. Once I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior my name was immediately put in the Lamb's Book of life, and I will not be condemned to Hell when I face my Creator at the Judgment Seat of Christ once I leave this earth.
To repent means to turn away from sin and let the Lord lead you according to His will. As members of the Body of Christ, we should have a natural desire to live our lives for God's glory, and not for our glory. As Christians we have the Holy Spirit in us, along with the flesh that will always war against the Holy Spirit, which will never end until we are rapture d and receive our glorified body that will not have the desire to sin.
I say this because when we repent, and turn away from sin and seek after God's will, we have been set free from sin and that is how we are able to express the joy that is within us by the grace of God. God wants us to live free from fear, anxiety, depression, and anything that would give Satan the opportunity to attack us with.
We are able to look at Satan when we are tempted, and speak CONFIDENTLY just like Jesus did, and say "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord to get behind me Satan."
That is what the Lord but on my heart to share with you all tonight. I appreciate your thoughts, and comments.
GOD BLESS
To repent means to turn away from sin and let the Lord lead you according to His will. As members of the Body of Christ, we should have a natural desire to live our lives for God's glory, and not for our glory. As Christians we have the Holy Spirit in us, along with the flesh that will always war against the Holy Spirit, which will never end until we are rapture d and receive our glorified body that will not have the desire to sin.
I say this because when we repent, and turn away from sin and seek after God's will, we have been set free from sin and that is how we are able to express the joy that is within us by the grace of God. God wants us to live free from fear, anxiety, depression, and anything that would give Satan the opportunity to attack us with.
We are able to look at Satan when we are tempted, and speak CONFIDENTLY just like Jesus did, and say "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord to get behind me Satan."
That is what the Lord but on my heart to share with you all tonight. I appreciate your thoughts, and comments.
GOD BLESS
I said a baby has its own will....just as any human does..is that will free or is it inclined against God...it is inclined against God and ofcourse a baby exercises its own will...do you think it is being a robot when it makes demands to be fed and changed and amused...it is naturally inclined towards self gratification just like any human being who is born of the flesh and not of the spirit...we are all inclined towards self gratification and not in honouring and pleasing God till God works in us and through us so that we become lovers of God rather than lovers of self
F
I can understand what you mean here about babies. Yet your speaking more of involuntary actions, like wanting to be fed, etc.
I am talking about freewill, the ability to choose right or wrong, obedience, disobedience.
I agree we are naturally inclined for self gratification, and if we have no reason not to please ourselves in our desires, why not?
That's the whole point, when we hear the gospel and choose to obey it, then we have a reason NOT to keep living in such a manner, and we have a reason to put God's will above our own will.
Knowing one came and died because of our sins, he showed he loved us, and God showed this as well by sending him.
So what do we do in return? We show we love Him back, by choosing him, and keeping his commands - Jn 14:15.
The ONLY reason keeping his commands can show love, is because we choose to do it above our own will. GOd wants us to choose Him over ourselves:
Luke 12:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me
By us putting his will above our will, we show we love Him more than ourselves. If this was not a freewill choice, it would not be done out love, but force.
So that we have a reason to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, we can choose to do so, just as the Ephesians chose, and changed their fate of being children of wrath, to children of God, showing their fate was not decided for them:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead(Past tense) in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were deadin sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus
They were (past tense) "Dead" in sin, "by nature, children of wrath". But because of God's love, they were now made alive "quickened".
If they were saved before the world began, then how were they ever dead? Saved people are not dead. Sense this is obviously not talking about literal death, it must mean they were spiritually dead. They were not saved until they were "quickened" made alive. You cannot be saved before you were saved.
So was this by choice, or force?
That is answered in Chapter one, in the context of predestination:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
They "trusted' AFTER they heard the word of Truth and after "YE" they believed it.
Which is in accordance with Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek
So we see it is salvation to everyone that believes, and trusts, after they hear it. This is not force, but choice, and reason we have the gospel, to reveal to us their is a choice, and alternative to evil, a path to salvation.
And this choice that God offers us to make is extend to all who hear the gospel, the power of God unto salvation.
It is not ONLY for a selected group, that has been chosen.
I am talking about freewill, the ability to choose right or wrong, obedience, disobedience.
I agree we are naturally inclined for self gratification, and if we have no reason not to please ourselves in our desires, why not?
That's the whole point, when we hear the gospel and choose to obey it, then we have a reason NOT to keep living in such a manner, and we have a reason to put God's will above our own will.
Knowing one came and died because of our sins, he showed he loved us, and God showed this as well by sending him.
So what do we do in return? We show we love Him back, by choosing him, and keeping his commands - Jn 14:15.
The ONLY reason keeping his commands can show love, is because we choose to do it above our own will. GOd wants us to choose Him over ourselves:
Luke 12:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me
By us putting his will above our will, we show we love Him more than ourselves. If this was not a freewill choice, it would not be done out love, but force.
So that we have a reason to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, we can choose to do so, just as the Ephesians chose, and changed their fate of being children of wrath, to children of God, showing their fate was not decided for them:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead(Past tense) in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were deadin sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ JesusThey were (past tense) "Dead" in sin, "by nature, children of wrath". But because of God's love, they were now made alive "quickened".
If they were saved before the world began, then how were they ever dead? Saved people are not dead. Sense this is obviously not talking about literal death, it must mean they were spiritually dead. They were not saved until they were "quickened" made alive. You cannot be saved before you were saved.
So was this by choice, or force?
That is answered in Chapter one, in the context of predestination:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
They "trusted' AFTER they heard the word of Truth and after "YE" they believed it.
Which is in accordance with Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek
So we see it is salvation to everyone that believes, and trusts, after they hear it. This is not force, but choice, and reason we have the gospel, to reveal to us their is a choice, and alternative to evil, a path to salvation.
And this choice that God offers us to make is extend to all who hear the gospel, the power of God unto salvation.
It is not ONLY for a selected group, that has been chosen.
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L
When speaking about children and whether or not they have a choice, I remember Psalms 51:5 where David says " Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."
As unfair as it might seem when you look at this verse, we have a sin nature at the time we are conceived in the womb. we enter into this world Condemned to Hell. God knows exactly what he is doing when he allows people to come into this world, and He is the only one who can justify the ungodly.
That is why I love the song Amazing Grace. We are not righteous, and we definitely are not forgiven unless God forgives us of our sins.
Here is another verse that I have shared before that I think you will enjoy.
Psalms 58:3-5
I thank God that I an a Christian by putting my Faith and Trust in Jesus Christ, because while we were yet sinners "Christ died for us!!!" That happened over 2000 years ago so I give God all the glory for giving me this wonderful gift of Eternal Life.
As unfair as it might seem when you look at this verse, we have a sin nature at the time we are conceived in the womb. we enter into this world Condemned to Hell. God knows exactly what he is doing when he allows people to come into this world, and He is the only one who can justify the ungodly.
That is why I love the song Amazing Grace. We are not righteous, and we definitely are not forgiven unless God forgives us of our sins.
Here is another verse that I have shared before that I think you will enjoy.
Psalms 58:3-5
- "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
- Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
- Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely."
I thank God that I an a Christian by putting my Faith and Trust in Jesus Christ, because while we were yet sinners "Christ died for us!!!" That happened over 2000 years ago so I give God all the glory for giving me this wonderful gift of Eternal Life.
F
By the second verse you posted, this gives us an understanding that the book of Psa is highly figurative in it's expressions to make a point, it often using a hyperbole.
For example in the verse you posted:
"the wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
How can a baby start speaking lies as soon as he is born?
We understand not to take this literally, but it is a figurative exaggeration to express the thought of much the wicked are liars.
It is just the same with David's description of his birth.
He is saying in was born into a sinful world "sharpen in iniquity", sin all around, it is an expression to show the condition of the world he was brought into, and how sinful it was when he came into being.
He is not saying he himself was full of sin. This is why such books as Psa should not be used for a bases of doctrine, knowing they are highly figurative.
Sin is clearly defined for us:
I Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
Sin is the violation of God's law. If their is no violation then their is no sin. There is not one sin on earth that exists where there is no law, because sin's opportunity is by the law - Rom 7:11.
So then it would be impossible for David to violate any of God's law while in the womb, or in an infant state, therefore according to the definition, he could not have been born in sin.
Sin is something we do, not something we get, like a sickness.
I know the whole argument with Adam, but that is not spiritually supported, it is also based on misinterpretation.
yes we can agree that until God makes us alive we are spiritually dead and because of our spiritual deadness we cannot choose to love God..in our natural state we are enemies of God..it needs to be God who changes us..quickens us so that we can respond to Him in love and submit to Him in love and subject our will to His in love
You see this is where I as a POTENTIAL CHRISTIAN does not get to your faith Caroline. You say we cannot repent without God so we need God in the picture. I agree! But then you say we cannot stop sinning in the next breath. Then why need God at all then. If we need God for us to repent, but we cannot stop sinning, then why even start to try to achieve sinless perfection. If it is not attainable why even try to get God in the picture? Then there is no HOPE~! Is a person with a thousand sins less perfect that a person with one sin? NO! Did the one with a thousand sins repent? NO! did the one with one sin repent? NO! So both is heading for hell!
Why do I need Jesus or God, if I am going to die as a sinner? If I die a sinner I died in my sins, and I am going to go to hell! I get that and if you disagree....RUDE WILL BE YOUR AWAKENING! Let me give you one gaurentee from the Bible.... 1 Joh 3:8... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Please do not try to teach me not to believe this verse as it is written, It is plain and simple...I also see in this verse there is a possible way not to sin, and it is mentioned that the Son of God has something to do about that. And that is so TRUE.
If we need God to STOP SINNING, and Jesus says HE DESTROYS THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL, I believe if God and Jesus is in operation on a person, the end result will be a sinless perfect man. Like this ONE!.... Eph 4:13.. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Again please do not try to explain, a perfect man is a perfect man, ONE WITHOUT SIN! I would say a Godly man, made so by God and Jesus! Not by his own will, but FATHER LET THOU WILL BE DONE AS IN HEAVEN. Do you think God's will is not done to perfection in heaven, or on earth? Then you know NOTHING!
Come on, STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY SIN BY SAYING: Nobody is perfect, We are only human, We all sin, We have a sinful nature, We are in a sinful world, We cannot be perfect here.....
I would like to ask you this... CAN GOD TAKE A SINNER AND MAKE HIM A PERFECT MAN! CAN GOD TAKE ME, COBUS, A SINNER, AND MAKE ME A MAN THAT CANNOT DO SIN? Can GOD change a sinner to a perfect man, by any means? If it is a process, or a baptism, or a few processes, it does not matter how HE does it, I ask... CAN GOD CHANGE A SINNER TO A PERFECT MAN.
If God cannot change a sinner to a perfect man, then why do sinners need God? And if God does not change sinners to be perfect, why did He say.... BE PERFECT EVEN AS YOUR HEANELY FATHER IS PERFECT.... MAtt 5:48. I will tell you why I think He said we HAVE TO BE PERFECT AS HE IS PERFECT.... Because that is wht HE DOES! Not I not you...GOD MAKES ALL HIS SHILDREN PERFECT, BEFORE THEY GO TO REST!
If HE does not, then you are not HIS! God will have HIS WILL DONE IN ALL HIS PEOPLE, BECAUSE IT IS HIS WILL.... Do you know why God said we HAVE TO BE PERFECT, Because HE WANTS US PERFECT.
If you do not believe you can be perfect, made so by God, how do you thnk you EVER will be perfect. Yuo will not be, Except if God change your faith. God has to give you the faith that PERFECTIN is attainable, THORUGH JESUS! BY GOD!
I believe this with my whole heart. Even though I have not attained it YET, but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which I am aprrehended of Christ Jesus! If I cannot be perfect here why would I follow perfection? And do I not apprehend that perfection from Christ Jesus, RIGHT HERE IN THIS WORLD.
If there is no one perfect, who should I follow? Can I follow Jesus here on earth? Is Jesus perfect? How perfect am I if ONLY CHRIST JESUS lives in me? Did a person that is FILLED with God's Spirit attain perfection? YES HE DID!
Why do I need Jesus or God, if I am going to die as a sinner? If I die a sinner I died in my sins, and I am going to go to hell! I get that and if you disagree....RUDE WILL BE YOUR AWAKENING! Let me give you one gaurentee from the Bible.... 1 Joh 3:8... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Please do not try to teach me not to believe this verse as it is written, It is plain and simple...I also see in this verse there is a possible way not to sin, and it is mentioned that the Son of God has something to do about that. And that is so TRUE.
If we need God to STOP SINNING, and Jesus says HE DESTROYS THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL, I believe if God and Jesus is in operation on a person, the end result will be a sinless perfect man. Like this ONE!.... Eph 4:13.. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Again please do not try to explain, a perfect man is a perfect man, ONE WITHOUT SIN! I would say a Godly man, made so by God and Jesus! Not by his own will, but FATHER LET THOU WILL BE DONE AS IN HEAVEN. Do you think God's will is not done to perfection in heaven, or on earth? Then you know NOTHING!
Come on, STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY SIN BY SAYING: Nobody is perfect, We are only human, We all sin, We have a sinful nature, We are in a sinful world, We cannot be perfect here.....
I would like to ask you this... CAN GOD TAKE A SINNER AND MAKE HIM A PERFECT MAN! CAN GOD TAKE ME, COBUS, A SINNER, AND MAKE ME A MAN THAT CANNOT DO SIN? Can GOD change a sinner to a perfect man, by any means? If it is a process, or a baptism, or a few processes, it does not matter how HE does it, I ask... CAN GOD CHANGE A SINNER TO A PERFECT MAN.
If God cannot change a sinner to a perfect man, then why do sinners need God? And if God does not change sinners to be perfect, why did He say.... BE PERFECT EVEN AS YOUR HEANELY FATHER IS PERFECT.... MAtt 5:48. I will tell you why I think He said we HAVE TO BE PERFECT AS HE IS PERFECT.... Because that is wht HE DOES! Not I not you...GOD MAKES ALL HIS SHILDREN PERFECT, BEFORE THEY GO TO REST!
If HE does not, then you are not HIS! God will have HIS WILL DONE IN ALL HIS PEOPLE, BECAUSE IT IS HIS WILL.... Do you know why God said we HAVE TO BE PERFECT, Because HE WANTS US PERFECT.
If you do not believe you can be perfect, made so by God, how do you thnk you EVER will be perfect. Yuo will not be, Except if God change your faith. God has to give you the faith that PERFECTIN is attainable, THORUGH JESUS! BY GOD!
I believe this with my whole heart. Even though I have not attained it YET, but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which I am aprrehended of Christ Jesus! If I cannot be perfect here why would I follow perfection? And do I not apprehend that perfection from Christ Jesus, RIGHT HERE IN THIS WORLD.
If there is no one perfect, who should I follow? Can I follow Jesus here on earth? Is Jesus perfect? How perfect am I if ONLY CHRIST JESUS lives in me? Did a person that is FILLED with God's Spirit attain perfection? YES HE DID!
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The perfection is in the life of Jesus Christ.
We are changed into His image if we abide in Him.
This is not a quick thing.....it takes years.
This is the patience of the saints.
Who learn to continually rely on Him for their spiritual sustenance.
If we were already made perfect we would no longer rely on Him.
We are being conformed to His image. This is sanctification - (I Cor. 1:30), and it's a life long process.
We are changed into His image if we abide in Him.
This is not a quick thing.....it takes years.
This is the patience of the saints.
Who learn to continually rely on Him for their spiritual sustenance.
If we were already made perfect we would no longer rely on Him.
We are being conformed to His image. This is sanctification - (I Cor. 1:30), and it's a life long process.
Rick it takes as long as God wants it to take. GOD IS IN CONTROL OF THE PROCESS AND THE OUTCOME! And after the outcome, HE IS IN CONTROL OF YOUR VESSEL, YOUR FLESH. 2 Peter 1:21... All Holy men of God is MOVED by HIS SPIRIT and NOT THEIR OWN.
Let me ask you this... WHO IS ON CONTROL OF YOUR SANCTIFICATION? WHO DETERMINES HOW LONG THIS SANCTIFICATION WILL TAKE? Who sanctify ALL His Children and how long did it take for a saint to become a saint? I hope we both agree that a saint is already without sin! Because no sinner can be saint. It is like saying a bad tree bears good fruit. Sinners are NOT saints.
I HATE sin and I hate myself when I sin. How can I love my neighbour if I hate myself? God says if I cnnot love the brother I see I cannot love Him that I do not see... So for me to love my brother I HAVE TO LOVE ME FIRST... And that love GOD HAS TO GIVE ME! The only thing that makes sence in the Bible, is that ONLY THE PEOPLE GOD CHANGED TO LOVE AS HE CAN LOVE, CAN DO HIS WILL and CAN LOVE THEMSELVES. No matter what you call it, they HAVE TO BE PERFECT to do God's will. The PERFECT love that maketh the perfect person is the LOVE OF GOD! Only these people has this love that CANNOT sin... 1 John 2:3... But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
God says in 2 Peter 1 that HOLY MEN OF GOD.... MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST... They did not move themselves, EVERY OVEMENT OF THEM WAS BY THE HOLY GHOST.... Those are God's Children! The ones that HE MOVES!
If I want to commit theft of another person's car, I have to move myself into that car and drive it off.... I have not stolen it by looking at it and then get in my own car and drive off.... I have to EXECUTE A MOVEMENT OF SIN.... That is EXACTLY like HOLY WORKS IS DONE.... But NO MAN can do Holy works, ONLY GOD CAN.... and that He does by REPLACING YOUR ONCE SINFULL SPIRIT... IN YOUR FLESH .... WITH HIS OWN HOLY GHOST, and this HOLY GHOST OF GOD will move the vessel, YOUR FLESH, for the rest of your flesh days on earth. TO DO HIS WILL AND WORKS... NO SIN IN THAT! And the amount of those days? God is the one that determine that as well. As I get it from the Bible that is not long!
How is the GOOD WORKS done... 2 Tim 3:17... That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
ONLY GOD'S HOLY GHOST CAN ACCOMPLISH THAT.... AND ALL GOD'S MEN WERE FILLED WITH HIS SPIRIT! FROM THE FIRST TO THE LAST, ALL ONE SPIRIT! GOD'S !
Let me ask you this... WHO IS ON CONTROL OF YOUR SANCTIFICATION? WHO DETERMINES HOW LONG THIS SANCTIFICATION WILL TAKE? Who sanctify ALL His Children and how long did it take for a saint to become a saint? I hope we both agree that a saint is already without sin! Because no sinner can be saint. It is like saying a bad tree bears good fruit. Sinners are NOT saints.
I HATE sin and I hate myself when I sin. How can I love my neighbour if I hate myself? God says if I cnnot love the brother I see I cannot love Him that I do not see... So for me to love my brother I HAVE TO LOVE ME FIRST... And that love GOD HAS TO GIVE ME! The only thing that makes sence in the Bible, is that ONLY THE PEOPLE GOD CHANGED TO LOVE AS HE CAN LOVE, CAN DO HIS WILL and CAN LOVE THEMSELVES. No matter what you call it, they HAVE TO BE PERFECT to do God's will. The PERFECT love that maketh the perfect person is the LOVE OF GOD! Only these people has this love that CANNOT sin... 1 John 2:3... But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
God says in 2 Peter 1 that HOLY MEN OF GOD.... MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST... They did not move themselves, EVERY OVEMENT OF THEM WAS BY THE HOLY GHOST.... Those are God's Children! The ones that HE MOVES!
If I want to commit theft of another person's car, I have to move myself into that car and drive it off.... I have not stolen it by looking at it and then get in my own car and drive off.... I have to EXECUTE A MOVEMENT OF SIN.... That is EXACTLY like HOLY WORKS IS DONE.... But NO MAN can do Holy works, ONLY GOD CAN.... and that He does by REPLACING YOUR ONCE SINFULL SPIRIT... IN YOUR FLESH .... WITH HIS OWN HOLY GHOST, and this HOLY GHOST OF GOD will move the vessel, YOUR FLESH, for the rest of your flesh days on earth. TO DO HIS WILL AND WORKS... NO SIN IN THAT! And the amount of those days? God is the one that determine that as well. As I get it from the Bible that is not long!
How is the GOOD WORKS done... 2 Tim 3:17... That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
ONLY GOD'S HOLY GHOST CAN ACCOMPLISH THAT.... AND ALL GOD'S MEN WERE FILLED WITH HIS SPIRIT! FROM THE FIRST TO THE LAST, ALL ONE SPIRIT! GOD'S !
All the things you said Cobus, all the scripture you quoted; are not they fulfilled in Chist?
So if you are perfect, why are you still alive?
If God was finished conforming you into the likeness of Christ(perfection), why do you still yet live?
And in so living have opportunity to sin again?
You just said you still sin, so maybe that's why you still are bound to an earthen vessel.
Because you have not been perfectly conformed into His image yet.
Have you considered that?
And if the apostles were perfect, why did they have disagreements? (after the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in each of them?)
The literal words Jesus used meant perfect spirit. So why were not the apostles who were indwelt with it 'perfect'?
Also in Hebrews it says Jesus Himself was made perfect by His obedience to face the death of the cross.
How was an already perfect man made even more perfect? (If that's possible)
Because He was obedient to the Father through His time here on earth.
This was the Christ living out His life.
If He was made perfect by the things He suffered how much more are we who are sinful!!!!
Think about it.
So if you are perfect, why are you still alive?
If God was finished conforming you into the likeness of Christ(perfection), why do you still yet live?
And in so living have opportunity to sin again?
You just said you still sin, so maybe that's why you still are bound to an earthen vessel.
Because you have not been perfectly conformed into His image yet.
Have you considered that?
And if the apostles were perfect, why did they have disagreements? (after the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in each of them?)
The literal words Jesus used meant perfect spirit. So why were not the apostles who were indwelt with it 'perfect'?
Also in Hebrews it says Jesus Himself was made perfect by His obedience to face the death of the cross.
How was an already perfect man made even more perfect? (If that's possible)
Because He was obedient to the Father through His time here on earth.
This was the Christ living out His life.
If He was made perfect by the things He suffered how much more are we who are sinful!!!!
Think about it.
All the things you said Cobus, all the scripture you quoted; are not they fulfilled in Chist?
So if you are perfect, why are you still alive?
If God was finished conforming you into the likeness of Christ(perfection), why do you still yet live?
And in so living have opportunity to sin again?
You just said you still sin, so maybe that's why you still are bound to an earthen vessel.
Because you have not been perfectly conformed into His image yet.
Have you considered that?
And if the apostles were perfect, why did they have disagreements? (after the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in each of them?)
The literal words Jesus used meant perfect spirit. So why were not the apostles who were indwelt with it 'perfect'?
Also in Hebrews it says Jesus Himself was made perfect by His obedience to face the death of the cross.
How was an already perfect man made even more perfect? (If that's possible)
Because He was obedient to the Father through His time here on earth.
This was the Christ living out His life.
If He was made perfect by the things He suffered how much more are we who are sinful!!!!
Think about it.
So if you are perfect, why are you still alive?
If God was finished conforming you into the likeness of Christ(perfection), why do you still yet live?
And in so living have opportunity to sin again?
You just said you still sin, so maybe that's why you still are bound to an earthen vessel.
Because you have not been perfectly conformed into His image yet.
Have you considered that?
And if the apostles were perfect, why did they have disagreements? (after the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in each of them?)
The literal words Jesus used meant perfect spirit. So why were not the apostles who were indwelt with it 'perfect'?
Also in Hebrews it says Jesus Himself was made perfect by His obedience to face the death of the cross.
How was an already perfect man made even more perfect? (If that's possible)
Because He was obedient to the Father through His time here on earth.
This was the Christ living out His life.
If He was made perfect by the things He suffered how much more are we who are sinful!!!!
Think about it.