If God freed Israel out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, and God’s law is of freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, God’s law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of God’s law that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. If you want to live in bondage, then that is your choice.
God gave the law about Circumcision.
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Unlike many people on this forum, I believe that as Christians we're grafted into spiritual Israel (not Judaism.) And since the Torah and the covenants were given to Israel before it became known as a "Jewish" nation and the people were known as "Jews" as we refer to them today, the Torah and covenants are still applicable (physically and/or spiritually) for all believers today. They take on a different meaning now in light of Jesus' sacrifice and our salvation, but they still hold validity today.
I don't believe Jesus did away with the Law.
Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."
So the question is what is the purpose of circumcision? The covenant is everlasting, which means eternal. Circumcision, as it was originally instructed by God, was meant to be a sign of the Abrahamic covenant between God and Abraham. It had nothing to do with salvation or right-standing before God as some people believe, and as the Pharisees tried to make it in Jesus' day. Today, it is still a sign of God's covenant with us; that He is our God and we are His people. I see it as very similar to the act of baptism. Is baptism required? No. Is it an act of faith as a sign of your relationship with God? Yes. And are you blessed by doing it? Yes.
I recognize I'm in the minority with some of these beliefs, but those are my thoughts.
I don't believe Jesus did away with the Law.
Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."
So the question is what is the purpose of circumcision? The covenant is everlasting, which means eternal. Circumcision, as it was originally instructed by God, was meant to be a sign of the Abrahamic covenant between God and Abraham. It had nothing to do with salvation or right-standing before God as some people believe, and as the Pharisees tried to make it in Jesus' day. Today, it is still a sign of God's covenant with us; that He is our God and we are His people. I see it as very similar to the act of baptism. Is baptism required? No. Is it an act of faith as a sign of your relationship with God? Yes. And are you blessed by doing it? Yes.
I recognize I'm in the minority with some of these beliefs, but those are my thoughts.
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How can something that was near to disappearing nearly 2000 years ago be eternal?
In that he says, a new [covenant], he has made the first old. Now that which is worn out and grown old [is] near to disappear. Hebrews 8:13
To the second point, any male that wasn't circumcised was cut off from Israel and thereby cutoff from the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.Heavens no! Paul said the Gentiles are spiritually circumcised because they have faith in God as Abraham did well before the law of Moses was given.
God commanded physical circumcision for Jews as part of the sacrificial laws that He intended to keep their culture separate until it provided Messiah for the salvation of all humanity potentially, after which such laws became optional.
God commanded physical circumcision for Jews as part of the sacrificial laws that He intended to keep their culture separate until it provided Messiah for the salvation of all humanity potentially, after which such laws became optional.
The view that we have of the law matches the view that we have of the Lawgiver for giving it. For example, a wise God is a giver of wise laws and a righteous God is not a giver of unrighteousness laws. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying God’s law, such as the David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of obeying it, then we will also delight in obeying it, which is incompatible with viewing it as being bondage. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can’t believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of obeying God’s law. Moreover, the authors of the NT considered the Psalms to be Scripture, so they should not be interpreted as expressing a view of God’s law that is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture, especially because Paul also said that he delighted in obeying it (Romans 7:12). If you have such a poor view of God’s law that you consider it to be bondage, then you also have an equally poor view of God for giving it.
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Romans 2:26
“So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?”
That verse notably does notably does not state that a Gentile who has faith will be regarded as circumcision, but one who keeps the law, though the Bible often conflated the two, such as in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God’s commandments. It is contradictory for someone to think that we should have faith in God, but not in His instructions.
God’s way is the way to know Him by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, such as in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being a doer of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham’s children as the stars in the heavens, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God’s voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statues, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their hearts by walking in God’s way in obedience to His commandments, statues, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God’s way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that. Moreover, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him. So both Abraham and Moses taught how to know God by walking in His way in obedience to His law.
In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God’s chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God’s own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the instructions that God had given for how to fulfill those roles and holiness is not just for Jews. It would be contradictory for a Gentile to want to live as part of a holy nation while not wanting to follow God’s instructions for how to do that. The only way that we should cease to follow God’s instructions for how be holy as He is holy would be if God were to cease to be holy, and the same goes for God’s other instructions for how to be in His likeness by being a doer of His character traits.
Jesus saves is from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law, so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. If someone doesn’t want to be a doer of God’s law, they they also do not want God’s gift of salvation.
“So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?”
That verse notably does notably does not state that a Gentile who has faith will be regarded as circumcision, but one who keeps the law, though the Bible often conflated the two, such as in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God’s commandments. It is contradictory for someone to think that we should have faith in God, but not in His instructions.
God’s way is the way to know Him by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, such as in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being a doer of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham’s children as the stars in the heavens, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God’s voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statues, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their hearts by walking in God’s way in obedience to His commandments, statues, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God’s way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that. Moreover, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him. So both Abraham and Moses taught how to know God by walking in His way in obedience to His law.
In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God’s chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God’s own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the instructions that God had given for how to fulfill those roles and holiness is not just for Jews. It would be contradictory for a Gentile to want to live as part of a holy nation while not wanting to follow God’s instructions for how to do that. The only way that we should cease to follow God’s instructions for how be holy as He is holy would be if God were to cease to be holy, and the same goes for God’s other instructions for how to be in His likeness by being a doer of His character traits.
Jesus saves is from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law, so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. If someone doesn’t want to be a doer of God’s law, they they also do not want God’s gift of salvation.
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I esteem Christ's law above and greater than Moses' law
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19
What was the purpose for God to send His Son to die in our place if the law can attain righteousness for us? You might be aware that scripture teaches that if you break just one part of the law, you have broken ALL of it. If you were not aware, you are now. Look up that scripture, it does exist, and think of what it states.
Jesus fulfilled all of the law; no animal sacrifice ever actually attained forgiveness.
You state you have been saved from birth. That is not found in Scripture. I see you do not attend church, but I am curious as to what belief you actually hold?
Jesus fulfilled all of the law; no animal sacrifice ever actually attained forgiveness.
You state you have been saved from birth. That is not found in Scripture. I see you do not attend church, but I am curious as to what belief you actually hold?
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Clearly following the laws of the state in Israel.
Any Jew in Israel in the first century could be excommunicated or executed for transgression
of the law. The law of Moses was federal law in Israel.
No other country in the world was under the federal law of Moses in the first century.
Certainly not the Romans.
Any Jew in Israel in the first century could be excommunicated or executed for transgression
of the law. The law of Moses was federal law in Israel.
No other country in the world was under the federal law of Moses in the first century.
Certainly not the Romans.
A newer covenant doesn’t nullify the promises of covenants that have already been ratified (Galatians 3:16-19), so God’s covenants are cumulative. One thing can only make another thing obsolete insofar as it has cumulative functionality. For example, a computer makes a typewriter obsolete, but doesn’t make a catapult obsolete. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that the New Covenant can be make it obsolete is if it is cumulative with it. So the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promised and has a superior mediator. The problem that God found with the Mosaic Covenant was not with His law, but with the people for not continuing in their covenant (Hebrews 8:7-9), so the solution to the problem was not for God to do away with His law, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to His law, God sending His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirements of His law (Romans 8:3-4), and God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). God did not establish the New Covenant so that we can be free to have the same disobedience to His law that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place.
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You ignore scripture that has been presented which clearly and fully denies your teaching and that of the op at your own peril. Who is your teacher?
Perhaps in your country food is sacrificed to idols, but you should understand the culture of this forum in which you have chosen to participate. All sins can be forgiven, save one. I would consider that one perhaps, I mean considering how you seem to think the Bible is so badly misconstrued by most.
Perhaps in your country food is sacrificed to idols, but you should understand the culture of this forum in which you have chosen to participate. All sins can be forgiven, save one. I would consider that one perhaps, I mean considering how you seem to think the Bible is so badly misconstrued by most.