GOD IS FOR YOU, NOT AGAINST YOU

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Feb 24, 2015
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Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
There is a problem with the word evil. Evil is often used to mean judgement or a calamity, not doing injustice or sin.
We also use evil as a way of describing sin, which makes it more confusing.

Equally when God creates darkness, darkness is literally a lack of light, so you can only remove light, though we would use the term, they made the room dark, meaning they turned out the light.

So the way you use language and meaning has different implications depending on the subject, it is not just a blanket idea, God creates everything.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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This is when it gets tough. What is the reality? Is it the world is against us, ISIS is against us.,Christians get killed, slaughtered, persecuted all the time.... This is the time that makes it rough on our 5 senses. What is OUR reality as sons of God? How are we to relate to these situations?

We are called to individually look AWAY to Jesus. For each one of us that is our personal calling. If you are here in the U.S. or some other part of the world. If you are sick or healthy., If the bombs are going off., whatever situation we find ourselves in we are called as sons to look away to Jesus - now.

The promises are for now; but without - looking AWAY to Jesus....can we even hope to see by faith and not by sight? And can we even hope to begin the amazing journey of learning HOW to walk by faith and not by sight???
Yes!


I agree - we're all in the midst of real life stuff - and that's why some of us are so passionate about Grace - we're living in Grace's provision day to day and are so grateful to God for His Grace \o/. And it's not to keep on sinning or to make sure we get what we want materially or physically - it's LIFE.


We come to God's Throne of Grace in our times of need.


It's so reassuring to know that when life throws circumstances at us I can choose to raise my hands to Father and say, "I choose to trust YOU." ("Look away to Jesus")


And in those times I'm not expecting circumstances to just go away, but my decision-making and coping abilities, and my countenance all improve by His Grace. I'm able to see outside of our own circumstances and be sensitive to the circumstances of those around us, and am able to love them in ways relevant to them - often because we're walking the same path and I can relate to them in their circumstance.


And I've watched in amazement as needs we didn't even know we would have were already provided for in abundance on this path. And out of that abundance, we've been able to 'pay it forward' on several occasions to others who have needs. It is such a joy to be able to give when a need is expressed, carrying the love of God along the way \o/.


Grace makes us vessels through which the blessings of God can flow, whether they be material, physical, or spiritual.


And that reality plays out in whatever circumstance, in whatever culture, in whatever crisis a believer happens to find themselves in. We need to stop looking at provision and health as being lots of money and absence of discomfort/sickeness/disease. God works through ALL circumstances, in plenty and in lack (see Paul's writings on being content on this issue). We may not see the value of a circumstance until eternity, but we can always choose to trust Him - that He has it all well in His Hand and that we can trust Him with the outcome. There are many, many believers out there who are resting in the Grace of God as He walks with them through financial difficulty and physical challenge - and they bear MUCH FRUIT in His Kingdom, loving others in their sphere of influence as they walk the path they're on.


We also need to broaden our perspective - this life will be but a blip on the radar screen in the light of eternity. What we do here DOES matter, but the suffering, the trials, the sicknesses, the pain . . . all will be forgotten in the very presence of our Good, Good God. On the flip side, the joys, the victories, the love, the FRUIT - those will all be remembered in the light of eternity!


In THIS life, we are called to walk trusting in Him, and exhorted and encouraged to come to His Throne of Grace in our times of need . . . He is so faithful \o/! He produces His Fruit as we rest in Him. It really is the most amazing thing!


-JGIG
 
K

KennethC

Guest
I'm ignoring your false assumptions about my position until you answer me this...

Please point me to someone today whose words are as good as Scripture giving us new revelation.
See though you think that prophecy has to be some "NEW" revelation, but that is not true !!!

Prophecy could be somebody who was given a vision of exactly what happens to the U.S., and many have been shown visions and dreams of the destruction of the U.S.

Does this constitute a new revelation, no it doesn't, it would however explain why the United States is given no to little scripture references.

Have you ever thought about that ???

Why the United States is not mentioned one time in the bible, at least by name ???

One of the biggest super powers in the world now and in history, yet no mention in the bible unless you use symbolism used in scripture to be speaking of the U.S.

The bible talks about and names a bunch of other countries, including has scriptures that allude to Russia and China, but the United States is never mentioned in name !!!

Prophecy does not have to be a new revelation, the vision only has to align with what is written in the Word !!!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I'm ignoring your false assumptions about my position until you answer me this...

Please point me to someone today whose words are as good as Scripture giving us new revelation.
I agree the apostles where people who knew Jesus face to face. Since they died in church history until recently no one dared call themselves an apostle. Those who have today are imposters and barely in comparison.

Prophets. I have read prophecies by some "prophets" that are a joke and all the ones I have seen have been wrong.
The prophets I have heard speak are more like fortune tellers, and the desire for certainty about the future appears to be the same. Some even talk about being in heaven and speaking with the dead, who want to pass on their blessing of the churches work. How much closer do you want to go to a seance than this.

A word from God, sent by the Holy Spirit to a brother or sister I can accept, and have been touched by.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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See though you think that prophecy has to be some "NEW" revelation, but that is not true !!!

Prophecy could be somebody who was given a vision of exactly what happens to the U.S., and many have been shown visions and dreams of the destruction of the U.S.

Does this constitute a new revelation, no it doesn't, it would however explain why the United States is given no to little scripture references.

Have you ever thought about that ???

Why the United States is not mentioned one time in the bible, at least by name ???

One of the biggest super powers in the world now and in history, yet no mention in the bible unless you use symbolism used in scripture to be speaking of the U.S.

The bible talks about and names a bunch of other countries, including has scriptures that allude to Russia and China, but the United States is never mentioned in name !!!

Prophecy does not have to be a new revelation, the vision only has to align with what is written in the Word !!!
Please point me to someone today whose words are as good as Scripture giving us new revelation.
Please point me to someone today whose words are as good as Scripture giving us new revelation.
Please point me to someone today whose words are as good as Scripture giving us new revelation.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Whatever. Please answer this statement directly and simply...

"So those preachers that promise that all 'christians should be healthy and wealthy, and if they are not they are living the devil's lie'... those preachers ARE LIARS."
crossnote, you've put that quote out there several times now, and since it is in quotes, you're indicating that a real someone actually said those words.

Who was it?

I ask because there are these continued attempts to link those who are preaching the Gospel of Grace here with nafarious, unnamed, phantom teachers 'out there'.

Does the quote above actually exist and if so, from who?

I can say that I don't hold to that teaching, and I'd like to know who teaches it and if they really are a Grace teacher. Or if they are a Grace teacher, if they were when they stated the above and if they still teach that.

Thanks for helping to clear this up,
-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Dear sis, And you are living through the very things some of us fear., or wonder or have worried deeply about. Your son, you and your husband and family are walking through places where the rubber meets the road kind of faith. No time for fake little pleasantries of religious words or phrases.. Like in a way I'm guessing at times you guys get through the day by the seats of your pants. But am also believing you have the secret place based on your posts and your words of faith and hope and the fact you have survived to tell about it.

But am also guessing you have seen God's hand in a zillion places and situations and people and doctors since you guys first started walking this path of your son's cancer with Jesus. You guys know first hand about LOOKING AWAY TO JESUS when your son is being treated for brain and spine cancer. You guys know better than any of us about the discipline to keep looking AWAY TO JESUS continually one day at a time. Especially going through this knowing it from a human reasoning standpoint. You are a woman that talks about the grace of God all the time too. And how we have to keep knowing it's by Jesus righteousness that we have any claim to the promises.

I love the promises you posted;



16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. (from 1 Thessalonians 5)


40 " For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
( - Jesus, from John 6)



9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (from 2 Peter 3)



10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13 I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.

14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name.

16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. (from Ephesians 3)



I can only speak to my experiences but when I'm seeing Jesus and grace, my problem is not magnified even though it is sore real. Even though my problem is still with me it's not magnified and the hope to keep on believing is given just at the time it seems like I'm weak and drained to the end. Then all of the sudden it's filled to the top again!! That is what I believe is the Holy Spirit ministering to me as Jesus told us in John.

John 7:38-39 He who believes in me, as the Scripture said, from his innermost being (belly) shall flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So we have this Spirit in us now because we are in the new covenant of grace. And just when it's like we don't have any more strength, it's there. This is how I know it's not me., and the touch of the Holy Spirit is for now tiny glimpses of the fullness of God and yet it fills to over flowing!!. How much more is there to come??!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing what you are going through. It was a reminder I needed again to pray for your son and you and your family JGIG. You and Joidevivre both give such uplifting posts I often forget you are going through the things you both are. love lynn

(((Thank you HUGS)))

-JGIG :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I agree...the next time you see preachers giving sick or poor people a guilt trip....let me know where it is being said so I can go and see what they are saying....

.I wouldn't be calling the cessationists liars either even if they go as far as to call other people satanic as I know they are just not exercising wisdom and are somewhat lacking in understanding of some spiritual matters related to the Holy Spirit workings in our lives today.

Again I would not call them liars. I make allowances for my own un-perfect knowledge. :p
The preachers I had mentioned crossed the line (you have to draw the line somewhere).
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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My Brother, we are all praying for your son and your entire family. May God meet you all where you need Him most and may He especially touch your son with a fingertip of healing. You're a true Christian soldier, and may you always be blessed according to God's will.
Thank you, Utah, we so appreciate your prayers for our son and our family \o/.

-JGIG
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I agree the apostles where people who knew Jesus face to face. Since they died in church history until recently no one dared call themselves an apostle. Those who have today are imposters and barely in comparison.

Prophets. I have read prophecies by some "prophets" that are a joke and all the ones I have seen have been wrong.
The prophets I have heard speak are more like fortune tellers, and the desire for certainty about the future appears to be the same. Some even talk about being in heaven and speaking with the dead, who want to pass on their blessing of the churches work. How much closer do you want to go to a seance than this.

A word from God, sent by the Holy Spirit to a brother or sister I can accept, and have been touched by.
I mean if someone wants to call a missionary an apostle because they are a sent one...fine, it's just they are not of the same calibre as the original.
Some today may have visions or dream (I've had a few) but that doesn't make them a Prophet who declares new revelation.

I think Kenneth is simply describing a preacher who speaks forth the true words of Scripture...but no new revelation.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
See though you think that prophecy has to be some "NEW" revelation, but that is not true !!!

Prophecy could be somebody who was given a vision of exactly what happens to the U.S., and many have been shown visions and dreams of the destruction of the U.S.

Does this constitute a new revelation, no it doesn't, it would however explain why the United States is given no to little scripture references.

Have you ever thought about that ???

Why the United States is not mentioned one time in the bible, at least by name ???

One of the biggest super powers in the world now and in history, yet no mention in the bible unless you use symbolism used in scripture to be speaking of the U.S.

The bible talks about and names a bunch of other countries, including has scriptures that allude to Russia and China, but the United States is never mentioned in name !!!

Prophecy does not have to be a new revelation, the vision only has to align with what is written in the Word !!!
So if this person guesses or I mean prophesies correctly of the destruction of the US, we could add it to the word of God? They are apostles or prophets?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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crossnote, you've put that quote out there several times now, and since it is in quotes, you're indicating that a real someone actually said those words.

Who was it?

I ask because there are these continued attempts to link those who are preaching the Gospel of Grace here with nafarious, unnamed, phantom teachers 'out there'.

Does the quote above actually exist and if so, from who?

I can say that I don't hold to that teaching, and I'd like to know who teaches it and if they really are a Grace teacher. Or if they are a Grace teacher, if they were when they stated the above and if they still teach that.

Thanks for helping to clear this up,
-JGIG
The quote has no one specific in mind but has an inherent 'if' to it.
I did not have the hyper grace camp in mind. It's been many years (30) since I looked into the WOF teaching and I believe Fred Price would come close to my quote.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Oppps..sorry crossnote..I didn't see where JGIG has asked you the same question..my apologies....

..I do think it's important because putting guilt trips on people because they don't have what someone else does have..is definitely not Christian....altho Jesus did say a few times....you of little faith...and one time He said He could not do many miracles in a place because of their unbelief...so there must be a truth in there somewhere....but putting guilt trips on them is not what the Lord had in mind..I am sure of that..


I agree...the next time you see preachers giving sick or poor people a guilt trip....let me know where it is being said so I can go and see what they are saying....

.I wouldn't be calling the cessationists liars either even if they go as far as to call other people satanic as I know they are just not exercising wisdom and are somewhat lacking in understanding of some spiritual matters related to the Holy Spirit workings in our lives today.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Oppps..sorry crossnote..I didn't see where JGIG has asked you the same question..my apologies....

..I do think it's important because putting guilt trips on people because they don't have what someone else does have..is definitely not Christian....altho Jesus did say a few times....you of little faith...and one time He said He could not do many miracles in a place because of their unbelief...so there must be a truth in there somewhere....
The guilt trips weren't to specific people in the old WOF movement but went something like, "If you were not healed, it is only evidence that you are lacking faith or you still have a negative confession."People such as my wife who was in it would start building up doubts about the genuineness of their faith and fall into despair. Joni Eareckson had similar experience with her paralysis.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I can certainly understand that....that would definitely be fodder for the enemy to condemn us....hope deferred makes the heart sick...I trust things with your wife are better now...


The guilt trips weren't to specific people in the old WOF movement but went something like, "If you were not healed, it is only evidence that you are lacking faith or you still have a negative confession."People such as my wife who was in it would start building up doubts about the genuineness of their faith and fall into despair. Joni Eareckson had similar experience with her paralysis.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I can certainly understand that....that would definitely be fodder for the enemy to condemn us....hope deferred makes the heart sick...I trust things with your wife are better now...
Yes she is thx. The thing is that this places our whole walk on our faith, not God's grace and that's why I am confused why some of the hyper grace people would go near the WOF teaching.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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That's good news about your wife..:)...Personally I believe the "mechanics" of faith came out of the WOF teaching was correct but like you I think the emphasis for some was on themselves....for some were self-centered instead of Christ centered.

We need to be using the faith that the gospel of grace of Christ supplies to believe in Him and what He has done for us in His finished work. Everything else stems from knowing Him.

Yes she is thx. The thing is that this places our whole walk on our faith, not God's grace and that's why I am confused why some of the hyper grace people would go near the WOF teaching.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Yes she is thx. The thing is that this places our whole walk on our faith, not God's grace and that's why I am confused why some of the hyper grace people would go near the WOF teaching.

Because their prophet is Joseph Prince who is a WOF, prosperity and hyper-grace authority.
As soon as the big authority falls, they are scared the rest will fall like dominoes.

I pointed this link out to Grace7x77 and Ben who both denied it. The problem is like Creflo Dollar the next big doctrinal money spinner is the one you have to be on, and to repent of what went before so your faithful money givers just keep it flowing baby.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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For what it is worth...I have heard that Prince guy on a number of occasions correct the WOF old teachings...


That's good news about your wife..:)...Personally I believe the "mechanics" of faith came out of the WOF teaching was correct but like you I think the emphasis for some was on themselves....for some were self-centered instead of Christ centered.

We need to be using the faith that the gospel of grace of Christ supplies to believe in Him and what He has done for us in His finished work. Everything else stems from knowing Him.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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That's good news about your wife..:)...Personally I believe the "mechanics" of faith came out of the WOF teaching was correct but like you I think the emphasis for some was on themselves....for some were self-centered instead of Christ centered.

We need to be using the faith that the gospel of grace of Christ supplies to believe in Him and what He has done for us in His finished work. Everything else stems from knowing Him.
His finished work...and His present continuing work (interceding on our behalf) and His future Kingly work in bringing in His Kingdom.