GOD IS FOR YOU, NOT AGAINST YOU
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But again the law of Moses which God gave him is not sin or death, do you comprehend this? Also the law of Moses is not in our members, think about it. THE LAW IS NOT SIN OR DEATH! Read what is written, the law is holy, just and good, does that sound like sin or death? LOL!
Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sinthat dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sinthat dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Agreed.
We do, however, live in a fallen world, and are touched by it.
I think here is where some distinctions need to be made:
Where Christians are on the planet matters - if they're in an oppressive, first, second, or third world country, their experience in day to day life will be much different than those in free countries Evil exists in this world, and so does free will. If those in power are evil and exercising their free will, those under them will suffer, no doubt about it.
We live in a world that is fallen biologically. We do get sick. Disease is in the world. There are times when God intervenes, but many times He does not. Being in the middle of a life-threatening illness with our son, I've had to sort through this stuff, and the only thing I can do is CHOOSE to TRUST God. However things turn out. He's led us to St. Jude's for our son's treatment, but there are no guarantees. Thousands are praying for our son, but there are no guarantees. Our God can save him, but if He doesn't, God is still GOOD. There is purpose and value in walking the path, wherever it leads.
There are also those out there walking in sin that affect those around them - the drunk driver, the abuser, the dysfunctional. Unfortunately, sometimes believers are in their sphere of influence. Sometimes God intervenes, but He won't override the free will of the sinner, so . . .
This world that we are in but not of, God's promise to us is that He will never leave or forsake us - He walks every step of our journey with us. In the midst of whatever our circumstance, He is with us.
-JGIG
We do, however, live in a fallen world, and are touched by it.
I think here is where some distinctions need to be made:
Where Christians are on the planet matters - if they're in an oppressive, first, second, or third world country, their experience in day to day life will be much different than those in free countries Evil exists in this world, and so does free will. If those in power are evil and exercising their free will, those under them will suffer, no doubt about it.
We live in a world that is fallen biologically. We do get sick. Disease is in the world. There are times when God intervenes, but many times He does not. Being in the middle of a life-threatening illness with our son, I've had to sort through this stuff, and the only thing I can do is CHOOSE to TRUST God. However things turn out. He's led us to St. Jude's for our son's treatment, but there are no guarantees. Thousands are praying for our son, but there are no guarantees. Our God can save him, but if He doesn't, God is still GOOD. There is purpose and value in walking the path, wherever it leads.
There are also those out there walking in sin that affect those around them - the drunk driver, the abuser, the dysfunctional. Unfortunately, sometimes believers are in their sphere of influence. Sometimes God intervenes, but He won't override the free will of the sinner, so . . .
This world that we are in but not of, God's promise to us is that He will never leave or forsake us - He walks every step of our journey with us. In the midst of whatever our circumstance, He is with us.
-JGIG
L
I appreciate your attempts to share on the forums and to rightly divide the Word of God Grace777. And using the excellent resources such as the Vine's Expository Dictionary. I would guess many don't have this resource. (myself included) though I've always intended to get one from Amazon.
One thing I'm continually brought back to in rightly dividing the Word of God is seeing the nature of God. That He IS good in a way we can grasp. As you put up we are continually told to look to Jesus if we want to see the heart of the Father. God does not call good evil and evil good. But men have taken those things that are for sure evil and attributed them to God. Religion does this all the time pointing us away from Jesus and instead the religion magnifies a man made version of God. Why do we fall for it all the time?
We keep being told to look to Jesus who is the Author and finisher of our faith. And the Bible says if we have seen Jesus we have seen the Father. And the verses you put up ;
Jesus is perfect theology:
Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father. So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.
Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
It's when Christians get these definite descriptions of God (who IS all good) confused, that the Bible makes absolutely no sense. There is no way to believe God is good to and for us personally when we believe He created evil and is waiting for us to mess up so the judgment can drop. So when the Bible makes it clear by telling us to look to Jesus., people don't do it.
People blame God for the evil on earth because of that word ---Sovereignty---- And YET we are still constantly called to look to Jesus. From the most mature believer who ever lived to the newest believer who ever lived...the answer is the same. Look to Jesus., look away from our own understanding and look to Jesus. Isn't it awesome how that theme keeps running continuously through the Bible!? And it's a good rule of direction on how we personally can tell if some teaching or teacher is un-biblical.
Not only what is said by people but how they say it. If we are in the company of a sour puss who only sees God's judgement and condemnation and that is all they have to offer, that shows a lot about their personal knowledge of Jesus. The fruit of the Spirit is first a heart for Jesus and reflects the love He has. If we are not loving people we are focusing on something that is more for our satisfaction. If our doctrine is not doing something good inside us by reflecting the love of Jesus, than it shows clearly we are like a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal as 1Cor.13:1 says.
When I read 1 Cor.13 It says we can have alllll the right doctrines and 'do' all these great things before people. We can win arguments with our superior intellectual skills and proper Bible verses inserted in the right places.... But if we don't really love people than we are fakes. Loving people IS NOT FOR SISSY'S!!!!!!
Christians EVEN..even Christians!... get all annoyed when someone talks about loving others. They make fun of that very action as if talking to tree huggers and hippies. As if love is an easy thing to do!!!
Loving people is an actual mark of the true follower of Christ. It is the MEAT of the Word. Because it is the only thing that shows an inner transformation. We humans are selfish self centered things. Even Christian humans. If our doctrine is not doing something TO US inside our inner man and anger and annoyance of others is what is driving us., our doctrine is doing us no good.
As 1 Corinthians 13 warns us, we can have excellent doctrine, have the spiritual gifts, know mysteries even and have all kinds of faith in our doctrines of the Bible enough to feed the poor and give to charitable organizations., and even die for what we believe, it all profits nothing! Unless we are exhibiting the kind of love in this 13th chapter we are just spinning our wheels and winning arguments and satisfying our deeply set human need for oneupmanship. All selfish reasons that use God for our own ends.
And here too are excellent reasons to talk about grace. When I see myself failing in this test., I can go to God and thank Him that Jesus paid for my failure here. That I have room to learn and am not between a rock and a hard place condemned with the world.
Then how to love those who are so annoying? He will do that transforming in and through us by the grace He holds Himself too because of Jesus through the Holy Spirit. The need to want to show Jesus will drive us to learn. Not because we are fearful of God but because we want to matter for Him and do His will. His Love becomes more satisfying than being right before others.
I for one, don't do that.
Wanna hear something really weird?
There are some WOF folks are hearing the Grace message and are changing what THEY preach and what they focus on. True story.
Because WOFers are as formula-based and have legalistic tendencies as much as any others, and the Gospel is not about that, it's about Grace.
-JGIG
Wanna hear something really weird?
There are some WOF folks are hearing the Grace message and are changing what THEY preach and what they focus on. True story.
Because WOFers are as formula-based and have legalistic tendencies as much as any others, and the Gospel is not about that, it's about Grace.
-JGIG
I listened to Fred Price about 30 years ago..he is from California somewhere. His personality was being very bold to say the least. ...to me some of his teachings were almost legalistic in his applications but he did have the "mechanics" of faith down correct in my opinion. He might have changed since then..I don't now..we all know in part and we are all learning...not much grace teaching if any that I observed back then...
You say "that Prince guy" like you barely know of him. This OP is a copy almost verbatim from his website. Be honest Grace777. I've never seen him correct WoF. His mentor was one of the most heretical WoF teachers ever named Kennith Hagin. He makes many mentions of him in his sermons giving him praise.
Here is the OP:
Here is the web article you took it from:
God Is For You, Not Against You | Grace Inspirations | Joseph Prince Ministries
A lot of what you post and take credit for your own is copy/pastes from websites.
Here is the OP:
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Romans 8:31
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] Are you faced with challenges in your life right now? Are you having marital problems and financial woes? Maybe your child is going astray or an old illness has returned. What then will you say to all these things?
Do you know what God wants you to say? He wants you to say, “If God is for me, who can be against me?”
If you knew that the President or the Prime Minister was for you, you might believe that everything will be okay. But you have an even better backing! The Bible tells us that God, the Almighty, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, is for you! What problem can fasten its grip on you when the Almighty God is for you? Can the devil come successfully against you with God on your side?
If God is for you today, if God is for you right now, you don’t have to moan, “If only I had this…If only I didn’t say that…” And you don’t have to worry about the future: “What if this happens…What if we don’t have enough…” My friend, regretting the past and worrying about the future won’t change anything.
Look to your heavenly Father, instead. Because He is for you at this present moment, you can be confident that He will help you and provide for you.
Beloved, God sent His Son to die for you. And Jesus gave you a blood-bought right to an abundant life full of meaning and purpose! He gave you a blood-bought right to walk in divine health all the days of your life! He gave you a blood-bought right to His supply even when the economy goes down!
You have all these things not because you deserve them, but because Jesus shed His blood and gave you the right to have them. All these blessings are yours today because God is for you! And if God is for you, who can be against you!
Psalm 103:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget none of His benefits;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who redeems your life from the pit, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who satisfies your years with good things, So that your youth is renewed like the eagle.
Some of us live in a relatively safe countries and we are blessed to live out our lives here in peace so that we can be a blessing to others around the world.
1 Timothy 2:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Romans 8:31
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] Are you faced with challenges in your life right now? Are you having marital problems and financial woes? Maybe your child is going astray or an old illness has returned. What then will you say to all these things?
Do you know what God wants you to say? He wants you to say, “If God is for me, who can be against me?”
If you knew that the President or the Prime Minister was for you, you might believe that everything will be okay. But you have an even better backing! The Bible tells us that God, the Almighty, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, is for you! What problem can fasten its grip on you when the Almighty God is for you? Can the devil come successfully against you with God on your side?
If God is for you today, if God is for you right now, you don’t have to moan, “If only I had this…If only I didn’t say that…” And you don’t have to worry about the future: “What if this happens…What if we don’t have enough…” My friend, regretting the past and worrying about the future won’t change anything.
Look to your heavenly Father, instead. Because He is for you at this present moment, you can be confident that He will help you and provide for you.
Beloved, God sent His Son to die for you. And Jesus gave you a blood-bought right to an abundant life full of meaning and purpose! He gave you a blood-bought right to walk in divine health all the days of your life! He gave you a blood-bought right to His supply even when the economy goes down!
You have all these things not because you deserve them, but because Jesus shed His blood and gave you the right to have them. All these blessings are yours today because God is for you! And if God is for you, who can be against you!
Psalm 103:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget none of His benefits;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who redeems your life from the pit, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who satisfies your years with good things, So that your youth is renewed like the eagle.
Some of us live in a relatively safe countries and we are blessed to live out our lives here in peace so that we can be a blessing to others around the world.
1 Timothy 2:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Here is the web article you took it from:
God Is For You, Not Against You | Grace Inspirations | Joseph Prince Ministries
A lot of what you post and take credit for your own is copy/pastes from websites.
I said "that Prince guy" for crossnote because he has some reservations about him..that's why I used that term with him..he understands that.
I have heard him correct some WOF teachings...go listen and you will hear him do it.
I have heard Kenneth Hagin correct WOF teachings as well..especially the everyone should have "wealth" part.
And I get Grace Inspirations in my email everyday..most times I put that in the bottom but this time I wanted to add some more into it. I'm not interested in taking any credit for anything...my heart is for people to ...grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope you have a great night. The Lord bless you!
I have heard him correct some WOF teachings...go listen and you will hear him do it.
I have heard Kenneth Hagin correct WOF teachings as well..especially the everyone should have "wealth" part.
And I get Grace Inspirations in my email everyday..most times I put that in the bottom but this time I wanted to add some more into it. I'm not interested in taking any credit for anything...my heart is for people to ...grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope you have a great night. The Lord bless you!
....I have been listening the last few months to things like this...anyone that lifts up the grace of Jesus and us depending on Him totally is who I like to hear...faith comes by hearing the word of Christ.
[video]http://streamingchurch.tv/cgi-bin/streaming.pl?churchid=church3905&hd=&embed=&notes_ id=38063&html5=&nameset=Guest795[/video]
[video]http://streamingchurch.tv/cgi-bin/streaming.pl?churchid=church3905&hd=&embed=&notes_ id=38063&html5=&nameset=Guest795[/video]
Um, no. And you continually try to tell us and others what we believe and you continue to hopelessly miss the mark.
I don't agree with everything Prince teaches - I've stated that several times. On the Gospel of Grace, he gets it right. And I'm okay with stating that. You will twist that into Prince being my guru, which is simply not the case.
Perhaps they denied it because you are wrong in your ASSUMPTIONS about what we believe and why we believe what we believe.
Don't look now, but Creflo Dollar has been preaching the Gospel of Grace for a year or two now. His demeanor and countenance are different now. He still has WOF leanings, but the primary focus and formula mentality is gone. The Gospel is his primary focus and it shows.
Do you actually ever watch/listen to the teachers you demonize or do you just listen to others who demonize them? Isn't you doing that actually what you accuse us of doing? Can you not see the disconnect there?
-JGIG
I don't agree with everything Prince teaches - I've stated that several times. On the Gospel of Grace, he gets it right. And I'm okay with stating that. You will twist that into Prince being my guru, which is simply not the case.
Perhaps they denied it because you are wrong in your ASSUMPTIONS about what we believe and why we believe what we believe.
Don't look now, but Creflo Dollar has been preaching the Gospel of Grace for a year or two now. His demeanor and countenance are different now. He still has WOF leanings, but the primary focus and formula mentality is gone. The Gospel is his primary focus and it shows.
Do you actually ever watch/listen to the teachers you demonize or do you just listen to others who demonize them? Isn't you doing that actually what you accuse us of doing? Can you not see the disconnect there?
-JGIG
Never heard of him.
Have no intention of going in 'that direction'.
The Gospel of Grace is what it is, however, and God IS for us, not against us. Where WOFers go off the rails is when they limit God's goodness to their comfort/well being. The whole message of Grace is that it's NOT ABOUT US. It's about Christ, Who He is, What He came to do, What that actually accomplished, and who we are in Him.
In the other direction are the folks who believe that God BRINGS sickness to discipline or punish believers . . . they are in as much error as name it/claim it folks are, just on the other end of the spectrum.
The intent of the thread is that God is for us, not against us.
I'm on board with that concept!
-JGIG
Have no intention of going in 'that direction'.
The Gospel of Grace is what it is, however, and God IS for us, not against us. Where WOFers go off the rails is when they limit God's goodness to their comfort/well being. The whole message of Grace is that it's NOT ABOUT US. It's about Christ, Who He is, What He came to do, What that actually accomplished, and who we are in Him.
In the other direction are the folks who believe that God BRINGS sickness to discipline or punish believers . . . they are in as much error as name it/claim it folks are, just on the other end of the spectrum.
The intent of the thread is that God is for us, not against us.
I'm on board with that concept!
-JGIG
I'm very familiar with it, and reject it. I've known many believers whose lives became train wrecks because they latched onto the unbiblical teachings in that camp.
You're assuming that the Gospel of Grace (so-called Hyper-Grace by some) is THAT movement. It's not. Do some who preach the Gospel of Grace lean in that direction? Yes, and I disagree with some statements that some make. I will not throw out the rest of what they teach because of a secondary issue, however.
I've stated what I believe regarding these things pretty clearly on this thread - Grace and the goodness of God and healing and not healing and prospering and suffering and being in lack and having plenty . . . all are compatible with the Gospel of Grace.
-JGIG
You're assuming that the Gospel of Grace (so-called Hyper-Grace by some) is THAT movement. It's not. Do some who preach the Gospel of Grace lean in that direction? Yes, and I disagree with some statements that some make. I will not throw out the rest of what they teach because of a secondary issue, however.
I've stated what I believe regarding these things pretty clearly on this thread - Grace and the goodness of God and healing and not healing and prospering and suffering and being in lack and having plenty . . . all are compatible with the Gospel of Grace.
-JGIG