God or Guns?

[iog]

When Jesus sent these servants out I can't read where they took a weapon

Matthew 10:7-14 (KJV)
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. [8] Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. [9] Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, [10] Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. [11] And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. [12] And when ye come into an house, salute it. [13] And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. [14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

 

[Grandpa]

Guns = death

The wages of sins is death

Thou shalt not kill

Our babies are dying
Our children are dying
Our wives, mothers, sister and women are dying

Because someone has a gun

What is also sad is these are Christians of the flock

Guns = protection

Our babies are dying
Our children are dying
Our wives, mothers, sisters and women are dying

Because we have STUPIDLY left them un-protected.

What is sad is that we have let our govt. leave them un-protected.

What is sad is that people are blaming the tool, the inanimate object instead of actually protecting anyone. What ever happened to taking some responsibility, to taking action???

 

[Grandpa]

Where is he?

Psalm 34:7 (KJV)
The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

The Christian suppose to have the hedge around them. There is no need for us to carry a weapon

What about the people around the Christian who don't know Christ?

Just let them fend for themselves...?? Not on my watch.

 

[Grandpa]

When Jesus sent these servants out I can't read where they took a weapon

Matthew 10:7-14 (KJV)
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. [8] Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. [9] Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, [10] Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. [11] And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. [12] And when ye come into an house, salute it. [13] And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. [14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Guess you missed this one...

 

[BarlyGurl]

Guns = protection

Our babies are dying
Our children are dying
Our wives, mothers, sisters and women are dying

Because we have STUPIDLY left them un-protected.

What is sad is that we have let our govt. leave them un-protected.

What is sad is that people are blaming the tool, the inanimate object instead of actually protecting anyone. What ever happened to taking some responsibility, to taking action???

******* CLAPPING!!!******

 

[wwjd_kilden]

It is interesting how so many are willing to use a tool designed to harm and kill to "Protect"

 

[BarlyGurl]

It is interesting how so many are willing to use a tool designed to harm and kill to "Protect"

so what sort of TOOL do you think is and efficient device to PROTECT spouses, loved ones, children, neighbors and or innocent bystanders from attack or mortal endangerment???

 

[PS]

so what sort of TOOL do you think is and efficient device to PROTECT spouses, loved ones, children, neighbors and or innocent bystanders from attack or mortal endangerment???

The best tool for PROTECTION is something like a brick wall.

The best tool for KILLING is a gun.

 

[PS]

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Guess you missed this one...

The disciples like Jesus were under attack. Are you under attack Grandpa?

(Mat 10:22) and you will be hated by all for my name's sake.

(1Th 2:14) For you, brothers, suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind.

Even though the disciples had a sword, it did them no good. They suffered horrible deaths. Please show me how the sword protected them. The truth of the matter is that it DID NOT.

.

 

[1still_waters]

It is interesting how so many are willing to use a tool designed to harm and kill to "Protect"

See this is where I find it interesting where some will draw a line.

Many who are against a law abiding person having a gun for self defense, are also fine with calling the police to come take care of a matter. And if the police have to use their gun for deadly or violent force, they won't find any issue with it!

So basically the police can use deadly force to protect you, but you can't use it to protect you or your family.

Why is it ok to call the police to come protect your family, but not ok to cut out the middle man and do it yourself? Either the police are the "tool" for protection, or the gun in your hand is the tool of protection.

Either way, you are indeed choosing a violent deadly form of protection.

By "you" i mean those in general who may hold the given stance.

 

[PS]

See this is where I find it interesting where some will draw a line.

Many who are against a law abiding person having a gun for self defense, are also fine with calling the police to come take care of a matter. And if the police have to use their gun for deadly or violent force, they won't find any issue with it!

So basically the police can use deadly force to protect you, but you can't use it to protect you or your family.

Why is it ok to call the police to come protect your family, but not ok to cut out the middle man and do it yourself? Either the police are the "tool" for protection, or the gun in your hand is the tool of protection.

Either way, you are indeed choosing a violent deadly form of protection.

By "you" i mean those in general who may hold the given stance.

If a gunman gives you time to phone the police and wait while they respond I suggest their life isn't in danger and perhaps the police are better trained and more able to deal with the situation in a more peaceful way than I would be able to for example. Just a thought.

 

[PS]

Sorry 1still-waters you were responding to wwjd_kilden. I do agree though that if we are under attack then the instinct of self preservation comes to the fore, but is America such a violent country to warrant everyone carrying a gun?

 

[missdjones11]

I really don't think its a choice, "God OR Guns"
To me that's like asking, "God or Medicine"
If you are sick, you go to a doctor, even if you trust God to heal you, He put doctors in their places and gave them the tools to heal you.
If you are in danger, your instinct is to protect yourself, even when you trust that God has your back, and self defense is not evil.
God made the world and everything in it, you cannot blame cars for drunk driving, airplanes for crashing, or even bombs for "blowing themselves" up. Behind every evil action is a human, no inanimate object can be blamed for the actions of humans.
The gun, sword, bow, axe, etc. is not evil, the one wielding it for the wrong purposes is evil.

 

[GRA]

It is interesting how so many are willing to use a tool designed to harm and kill to "Protect"

"Me thinks per chance that some people TOTALLY 'missed' the intent of this statement completely..."

Read it again...



(I could be wrong.)



.

 

[GRA]

See this is where I find it interesting where some will draw a line.

Many who are against a law abiding person having a gun for self defense, are also fine with calling the police to come take care of a matter. And if the police have to use their gun for deadly or violent force, they won't find any issue with it!

So basically the police can use deadly force to protect you, but you can't use it to protect you or your family.

Why is it ok to call the police to come protect your family, but not ok to cut out the middle man and do it yourself? Either the police are the "tool" for protection, or the gun in your hand is the tool of protection.

Either way, you are indeed choosing a violent deadly form of protection.

By "you" i mean those in general who may hold the given stance.

YEAH - RIGHT!

("How dumb is this...?")



.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

Jesus was not a pacifist. Forgiveness is not suicide. Bad hermeneutics.

Jesus told his disciples to carry swords.

 

[PS]

Jesus was not a pacifist. Forgiveness is not suicide. Bad hermeneutics.

Jesus told his disciples to carry swords.

And Jesus told Peter to put his sword away.

 

[Abiding]

Blah blah ....and im sticking to my story

 

[PS]

Blah blah ....and im sticking to my story

Well you cannot deny that Jesus told Peter to put his sword away and neither can you deny Jesus repeatedly taught “But I say to YOU who are listening, Continue to love YOUR enemies, to do good to those hating YOU, to bless those cursing YOU, to pray for those who are insulting YOU."

I admit I do not know why Jesus said to buy a sword so perhaps we ought to pray for understanding. There may have been a legal reason under Roman law perhaps, it would be interesting to get the full picture I feel.

 

[MidniteWelder]

Because I want to know why people draw the lines where they do.

People will say, "Hey I trust God to protect me, so I don't need a gun."

Yet some of the same people, who say they trust God to protect them, will call the police when they hear that noise in the night, will lock their doors, and the like.

Why don't they "trust God to protect them" when they hear that noise in the night, or when it comes to locking the door? Why do they trust God to protect them when it comes to not owning a gun?

These issues are germane, because if one claims to be "trusting God" then we should be able to see if they're following that same standard in all situations. And if they aren't, then why?

For one, maybe I need to change my opinion on things. But I can't if someone won't tell me why they draw the line where they do. I can't change my view on stuff, if folks won't share. So I press hard on this issue, cuz I want to know why folks reason the way they do. Maybe MY reasoning is wrong in this matter.

Good questions and points raised Stilly,
It can be difficult for someone to reconcile the reason to carry or even use a weapon of any sort as a Christian
And if they wrestle within their heart any justifiable reason for doing so then obviously they should refrain as it may phsychologically tear them apart later through life.
It could be for some (I speak as my own experience here) that those who trust completely in God to protect them is a time of faithbuilding for that person.
Almost as if God says to them, dont carry or have a gun ...(yet)
And once that person has demonstrated that complete trust to know that God is in charge then later God may say, Ok, I see you are responsible enough and trust me and hear my voice to lead you in all situations, Now you may have a gun.
I see both sides of the viewpoint, since I myself have dealt with situations where the other person had a gun and I didnt at the time.
Thinking as many others that if it is my time then it is my time to go, so be it, get to go to heaven now right, so why be fearful.

Although after these types of situations I thought, Ok so what if the trigger had been pulled on me, and I died, would I be able to be used for God here anymore.
Of course no.
So for myself it was almost as though God wanted to be sure I could deal with those types of situations without relying upon a gun to make my decision or do my talking or to be the reason for any courage.
So then some may argue, well if you came out triumphant in such situations then why have a gun?


Locking doors:
I used to not lock my house doors, I really have nothing of much value to steal and anything I have I do not have without it having been given to me by the Lord anyway right, and nothing worth killing someone over.
But in a way this can be foolish thinkin.
The privacy and sanctity of ones home can be taken.
This is also valuable
I really dont wish to be woken up by an intruder so I lock my doors now.
I really dont wish to be faced with the situation where I may have to use a gun on somebody for entering my home, so again I lock my doors while Im sleeping.
(as well its not legally breaking and entering if I left my door unlocked, legally then it could be considered a misdemeanor and if I did end up shooting sombody after having left my door unlocked legally speaking it could be viewed as an invitation or temptation to burglary whereupon I then may be found at fault for merely protecting myself in my own home)
Now if the door is locked, it becomes a felony break and enter, theft of anything of value over $400.00 dollars is also felonious.
And legally speaking the law states that a citizen witnessing a felony in progress has the same right as a police official to make a citizens arrest.
So, back to the gun, if I were to try to make a ciitizens arrest for a felony in progress without the aid of a weapon yet likely knowing the perpetrator may potentially have a gun, again I would be foolish.
Now some would say why not just call the cops.
Well, response time at best even with an officer in the immediate vicinity is about 2 minutes.
Plenty of time for any intruder to commit their crime and be well on their way with a person left telling the cops what just happened having to take the relevant info down and get the description and story accurate etc.

I remember one time I was stopped by a cop. Noticed my handcuffs by the shifter console.
Now cops immediately make a quick assessment of anything out of the ordinary.
So immediately he asks, why do you have handcuffs?
I said well, why do you?
He said because Im a deputy.
I say to him,"first let me ask you, is it against the law for me to have a gun?"
He then asks do you have a gun in the vehicle?
I said no, not at this time, but is it illegal for me to own a gun?
He said No as long as you dont have any restrictions in effect
I said no I dont, so if its not illegal for me to own a gun is it illegal for me to own handcuffs?
He smiled and said no.
I asked did you pull me over because you saw my handcuffs in the console?
He said no, your license plate light is out, get it fixed and then walked away.
A lot of things may seem strange or out of place to some people including officers and state officials who arent very versed in citizens rights.
I excercise my rights cuz I can, simple enough
Why not ask me why I drive a car instead of using a horse.
For the same reason...Cuz I can and have no car use restrictions in place so I excercise that right too.
One detriment is that a lot of citizens excercise their rights so rarely that it is no longer common place and has made law abiding citizens appear suspicious or "out of place".
So out of place in fact I have even had a game warden inspect my vehicle while I was up a creek on BLM land only to come back to him asking me this series of questions.
Him "Hey how ya doin, I noticed you have ammunition in your truck"
me Yep
Him...fumbling for more words
Well do you have a gun on you
Not today but usually I do have one with me
Him. why do you usually have a gun with you
I asked...Isnt this BLM land
Him yes
Isnt it legal for me to shoot on BLM land?
Well yes
Me...are you here trying to make friends or just wish to know why I choose to shoot on BLM land where its legal instead of in the city where its not.
Him...well I just wanted to know what you were doing
ME...This is the Mountains, everybody up here has a gun, is there a point to your line of questioning?
He said well have you seen any deer around.
And Im thinking what??? then ask
"why do you want to take pictures of some, if so I seen some cross the road around the last corner awhile back."
He says well no
Finalllly he gets to the point and asks, well have you seen anybody shooting at things they shouldnt be
I kind of ask drawing it out of him, "ya mean liiiiiiiiiike poaching???"
He says well yeah.
I laugh, and tell him" no most people that would be poaching dont do it right by the paved road here but if you're looking for something like that ya may want to go back further into the woods where the dirt roads are."
So now some may think ok if you're not a cop why do you have handcuffs.
The answer would be because I really dont wish to have to look for a rope or hold an intruder by gun point especially if I have to pee or something while waiting for the cops to arrive.

Why a gun?
The answer would be to prevent a crime against myself, and to prevent a potential risk to this here life Ive been given.
If someones in need they should ask, not steal.

The use of a gun for protection carries with it a large responsibility, it is not for everybody and those who choose not to use one as an aid or a tool for the preservation of their life and of their loved ones have acted responsibly in realizing their own limitations.
If hesitation is a factor for instance, an attacker has an opportunity to shoot back at you and those nearby increasing any potential risk.
the gun can be taken on used on yourself
the gun could then also be taken from you to be used for future crimes.
So even though Ive always had a gun I reasoned within myself not to carry a gun unless necessary
not without being profficient with it
and after that...not without the proper training

I remember where I lived some 20 yrs ago it was the practice at the time for new gangmembers to become initiated by merely high beaming somebody with their headlights. And if the oncoming car simply brighted back, they shot at you.
In other words they were taught to provoke a situation to use their own made up reason to shoot innocent people. So yes, I carried a gun in the vehicle then until police got a handle on things and those threats were minimized.
(Admittedly in my mind I did think they certainly arent shooting at this truck and driving away very easily.Iis that retribution or vengeance? I dunno, although if somebody shot at me for me simply enlightening them that their highbeams were on which were blinding me to oncoming traffic which is standard practice amongst drivers, I dont think Id feel much remorse for defending myself in such a scenario)

So now, why carry one, why be prepared to take someones life?
Well, as we all know, there is evil in this world.
If everyone were Christian we wouldnt need guns true, but not everyone hears Gods voice.
In fact there are some influenced by satan and instead hear his voice more clearly
Now what would this world be like if satan got every Christian to believe that they should not defend themselves their family their livelihood their right to LIFE liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
For satan to get Christians to be of the mindset they dont need anything to protect themselves but God alone.
For those type of persons respect doesnt come without fear.
Very much the same as some Christians dont come to Christ until they fear God.
Once fear is established there is respect.
Did anyone ever have their dad spank them?
Did the spanking instill repsct first out of fear but then later flourish into a respect not driven by fear but of cooperation and an understanding of the authority in charge as well as love.
Sooner or later a spanking wasnt needed anymore right?
Who was the one needing enlightment understanding and knowledge there? The spanker or the spankee
Granted the Noble one doesnt respect God out of fear of punishment
But theives arent the noble ones are they.