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E
Do you have any idea about God's purposes according to ELECTION?
REMNANT?
Romans 11:5
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice
sheerith: rest, residue, remnant, remainder
Original Word: שְׁאֵרִית
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheerith
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ay-reeth')
Short Definition: remnant
Word Origin
from shaar
Definition
rest, residue, remnant, remainder
NASB Translation
left (1), remnant (55), rest (7), survivors (2), those who had escaped (1)
Strong's Hebrew 7611
66 Occurrences
shaar: to remain, be left over
Original Word: שָׁאַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shaar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-ar')
Short Definition: left
Strong's Hebrew 7604
133 Occurrences
REMNANT?
Romans 11:5
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice
sheerith: rest, residue, remnant, remainder
Original Word: שְׁאֵרִית
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheerith
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ay-reeth')
Short Definition: remnant
Word Origin
from shaar
Definition
rest, residue, remnant, remainder
NASB Translation
left (1), remnant (55), rest (7), survivors (2), those who had escaped (1)
Strong's Hebrew 7611
66 Occurrences
shaar: to remain, be left over
Original Word: שָׁאַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shaar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-ar')
Short Definition: left
Strong's Hebrew 7604
133 Occurrences
E
I don't care for your translation. But anyways.
^^ all happened within the 70 weeks, including: "which is determined" << the "determined" means the decree - the Judgment.
Matthew 23:38
"Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
If its possible for you to keep in mind that there were no chapter breaks or verses or punctuation, can you stretch your mind enough to see that there's nothing that says the following takes places WITHIN THE 70 WEEKS? Just try turning from Daniel 9 to Daniel 10 and not using any breaks or verses and see its one continuous passage. Just because an idea falls CHRONOLOGICALLY in the text after another idea doesn't mean it's ahead of the last idea IN TIME!
It's part of the vision and prophecy, which Jesus (in the 70th week) SEALED with His DECREE: "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! spoken while He was alive in the first half of the 70th week!
THIS CAME LATER:
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
It's about:
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
The Wikipedia wasn't for theology. It was because you don't even know basic history.
70th week, Jesus cut off in the MIDDLE.
Covenant confirmed with the many through the whole week, even after Jesus Himself confirmed it with His Cup and Bread, then Ascended.
Then:
Titus and all that came later.....WITHIN A GENERATION of Christ's death - 40 years, which you obviously are not aware was considered the length of time needed to raise up each GENERATION.
40 years - generation (and don't you recognize 40 as significant with The Lord?)
Numbers 14:33
Your children will be shepherds here for forty years, suffering for your unfaithfulness, until the last of your bodies lies in the desert.
Numbers 14:34
For forty years--one year for each of the forty days you explored the land--you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.'
Numbers 32:12
"So the LORD'S anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the LORD was destroyed.
Joshua 5:6
The Israelites had moved about in the desert forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land that he had solemnly promised their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.
Not only are there Biblical patterns for 40 (days, nights, years) being times of trial; testing; its also connected by God himself to particular generations. And to Judgment.
Anyway. I hope you'll read this. I don't agree with everything in it, but it might be helpful.
THE COVENANT CONFIRMED
Before mentioning the middle of the week, Daniel said that the Messiah "shall confirm a covenant with many for one week." Now, it is a well-known fact that Jeremiah prophesied a new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34). That Jesus brought in a new covenant, there is no question. At the Last Supper, He declared: "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28).
It thus seems easy to think of Jesus confirming the covenant for the first half of the week (his 3-and-1/2-year ministry). But what about the second half--the 3 and 1/2 years following His ascension? On the one hand, there should be no difficulty with understanding that the covenant was confirmed by the apostles after Jesus' ascension. But, that involved many years. Why refer to just 3 and 1/2 years? What event closes the 70 weeks?
That event cannot be the destruction of Jerusalem, because that did not happen until 70 A.D. It is highly unlikely that the event is the conversion of the first Gentile, Cornelius. While we do not know the exact year of his conversion, the book of Acts places it after the conversion of Saul of Tarsus. Saul's conversion, itself, appears to be too late; scholars would place it around 35 A.D. We must seek for some significant event or condition prior to Acts 9.
Prophecy had predicted, and Jesus had commanded, that the Gospel first be preached in Jerusalem (Joel 2:28-32; Luke 24:46-49). The church started with 3,000 souls and quickly grew to 5,000 men, all Jews, all in Jerusalem. Who knows how long the Christians would have remained in Jerusalem, had it not been for the great persecution that followed the murder of Stephen. But as a result, the believers "were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria" (Acts 8:1).
We do not know the exact date of Stephen's death and the resulting dispersion. Nevertheless, it must have been right around 33-34 A.D., to allow time for Saul's persecution of the church before his conversion.
This dispersion, then, brings us right to the end of the 70 weeks (490 years). Much of the 70-weeks prophecy deals specifically with Jerusalem. It would appear that 3 and 1/2 years was precisely the length of time that God set aside for the new covenant to be confirmed exclusively in Jerusalem and exclusively among Jews. This was Jerusalem's moment. Large numbers were converted before the Jews, led by Saul of Tarsus, tried to stamp out the new message.
Instead of stamping it out, they caused it to spread beyond Jerusalem. The first place mentioned which then received the Word was Samaria. The Jews hated the mixed-race Samaritans. The apostle John had wanted to call fire from heaven to consume a Samaritan village. Now, this same John lay hands on Samaritans so they could receive the Holy Spirit.
The day of taking the Gospel exclusively to Jerusalem and exclusively to pure Jews and proselytes was over. The 70 weeks had come to an end. World evangelism had begun. Jerusalem had had its golden opportunity. Many took the opportunity; but others only further sealed the doom of their city.
THE DESOLATION OF JERUSALEM
It is that doom which much of the 70-weeks prophecy is all about. That doom would come "after" the 69 (7+62) weeks. The language of the prophecy requires that the removal of sin take place within the 70 weeks. It requires that the Messiah come within the 70 weeks. It requires the confirmation of a covenant during the last week. However, it does not require that Jerusalem and the temple be destroyed within that time. "After." It in no way specifies how long after.
Nevertheless, we cannot help noticing that the doom of Jerusalem was, indeed, sealed during the 70 weeks. The rending of the veil was proof that God was finished with the temple. Besides that, the Jews proclaimed their own doom at the trial of Jesus: "And all the people answered and said, 'His blood [be] on us and on our children' " (Matthew 27:25).
During His last week, Jesus lamented: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate" (Matthew 23:37,38). "Your house." No longer "My Father's house." "Your house... desolate" puts us right back in Daniel 9 with "abominations... makes desolate." Their rejection of Jesus during the 70th week ensured that the desolation would come; it could not be withheld.
WHY THE DELAY
When Jesus died, the temple sacrifices no longer had value, as far as God was concerned. Nevertheless, the temple and Jerusalem were granted 40 years of grace. The Gospel had to begin in Jerusalem. The temple area was an important meeting place to preach the Gospel. It was Jerusalem that crucified Jesus. It was right outside Jerusalem that Jesus arose from the dead and in Jerusalem that the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Being thus empowered from on high, the apostles preached the Good News to Jews who had gathered for the annual feast of Pentecost. These Jews were present from all parts of the Roman Empire (Acts 2:8-11). Scripture had said:
"For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem" (Isaiah 2:3). The Lord's Kingdom needed time to become established. The Jewish Christians needed time to understand the passing away of the law.
For the sake of the Gospel, God was gracious to Jerusalem for 40 years. For the sake of those Jews who would open their hearts to their Messiah, God was gracious to Jerusalem for 40 years. However, the time had to come when the temple sacrifices were more than a thing of the past in the mind of God. They had to become a thing of the past in historical reality. Therefore, God sent the Romans so that the Mosaic system of sacrifice would be wiped off the face of the earth. God sent the Romans to put a definitive end to Jerusalem being His dwelling place.
Insight #44 -- Jesus & God's Timetable
^^ all happened within the 70 weeks, including: "which is determined" << the "determined" means the decree - the Judgment.
Matthew 23:38
"Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
If its possible for you to keep in mind that there were no chapter breaks or verses or punctuation, can you stretch your mind enough to see that there's nothing that says the following takes places WITHIN THE 70 WEEKS? Just try turning from Daniel 9 to Daniel 10 and not using any breaks or verses and see its one continuous passage. Just because an idea falls CHRONOLOGICALLY in the text after another idea doesn't mean it's ahead of the last idea IN TIME!
It's part of the vision and prophecy, which Jesus (in the 70th week) SEALED with His DECREE: "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! spoken while He was alive in the first half of the 70th week!
THIS CAME LATER:
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
It's about:
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
The Wikipedia wasn't for theology. It was because you don't even know basic history.
70th week, Jesus cut off in the MIDDLE.
Covenant confirmed with the many through the whole week, even after Jesus Himself confirmed it with His Cup and Bread, then Ascended.
Then:
Titus and all that came later.....WITHIN A GENERATION of Christ's death - 40 years, which you obviously are not aware was considered the length of time needed to raise up each GENERATION.
40 years - generation (and don't you recognize 40 as significant with The Lord?)
Numbers 14:33
Your children will be shepherds here for forty years, suffering for your unfaithfulness, until the last of your bodies lies in the desert.
Numbers 14:34
For forty years--one year for each of the forty days you explored the land--you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.'
Numbers 32:12
"So the LORD'S anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the LORD was destroyed.
Joshua 5:6
The Israelites had moved about in the desert forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land that he had solemnly promised their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.
Not only are there Biblical patterns for 40 (days, nights, years) being times of trial; testing; its also connected by God himself to particular generations. And to Judgment.
Anyway. I hope you'll read this. I don't agree with everything in it, but it might be helpful.
THE COVENANT CONFIRMED
Before mentioning the middle of the week, Daniel said that the Messiah "shall confirm a covenant with many for one week." Now, it is a well-known fact that Jeremiah prophesied a new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34). That Jesus brought in a new covenant, there is no question. At the Last Supper, He declared: "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28).
It thus seems easy to think of Jesus confirming the covenant for the first half of the week (his 3-and-1/2-year ministry). But what about the second half--the 3 and 1/2 years following His ascension? On the one hand, there should be no difficulty with understanding that the covenant was confirmed by the apostles after Jesus' ascension. But, that involved many years. Why refer to just 3 and 1/2 years? What event closes the 70 weeks?
That event cannot be the destruction of Jerusalem, because that did not happen until 70 A.D. It is highly unlikely that the event is the conversion of the first Gentile, Cornelius. While we do not know the exact year of his conversion, the book of Acts places it after the conversion of Saul of Tarsus. Saul's conversion, itself, appears to be too late; scholars would place it around 35 A.D. We must seek for some significant event or condition prior to Acts 9.
Prophecy had predicted, and Jesus had commanded, that the Gospel first be preached in Jerusalem (Joel 2:28-32; Luke 24:46-49). The church started with 3,000 souls and quickly grew to 5,000 men, all Jews, all in Jerusalem. Who knows how long the Christians would have remained in Jerusalem, had it not been for the great persecution that followed the murder of Stephen. But as a result, the believers "were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria" (Acts 8:1).
We do not know the exact date of Stephen's death and the resulting dispersion. Nevertheless, it must have been right around 33-34 A.D., to allow time for Saul's persecution of the church before his conversion.
This dispersion, then, brings us right to the end of the 70 weeks (490 years). Much of the 70-weeks prophecy deals specifically with Jerusalem. It would appear that 3 and 1/2 years was precisely the length of time that God set aside for the new covenant to be confirmed exclusively in Jerusalem and exclusively among Jews. This was Jerusalem's moment. Large numbers were converted before the Jews, led by Saul of Tarsus, tried to stamp out the new message.
Instead of stamping it out, they caused it to spread beyond Jerusalem. The first place mentioned which then received the Word was Samaria. The Jews hated the mixed-race Samaritans. The apostle John had wanted to call fire from heaven to consume a Samaritan village. Now, this same John lay hands on Samaritans so they could receive the Holy Spirit.
The day of taking the Gospel exclusively to Jerusalem and exclusively to pure Jews and proselytes was over. The 70 weeks had come to an end. World evangelism had begun. Jerusalem had had its golden opportunity. Many took the opportunity; but others only further sealed the doom of their city.
THE DESOLATION OF JERUSALEM
It is that doom which much of the 70-weeks prophecy is all about. That doom would come "after" the 69 (7+62) weeks. The language of the prophecy requires that the removal of sin take place within the 70 weeks. It requires that the Messiah come within the 70 weeks. It requires the confirmation of a covenant during the last week. However, it does not require that Jerusalem and the temple be destroyed within that time. "After." It in no way specifies how long after.
Nevertheless, we cannot help noticing that the doom of Jerusalem was, indeed, sealed during the 70 weeks. The rending of the veil was proof that God was finished with the temple. Besides that, the Jews proclaimed their own doom at the trial of Jesus: "And all the people answered and said, 'His blood [be] on us and on our children' " (Matthew 27:25).
During His last week, Jesus lamented: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate" (Matthew 23:37,38). "Your house." No longer "My Father's house." "Your house... desolate" puts us right back in Daniel 9 with "abominations... makes desolate." Their rejection of Jesus during the 70th week ensured that the desolation would come; it could not be withheld.
WHY THE DELAY
When Jesus died, the temple sacrifices no longer had value, as far as God was concerned. Nevertheless, the temple and Jerusalem were granted 40 years of grace. The Gospel had to begin in Jerusalem. The temple area was an important meeting place to preach the Gospel. It was Jerusalem that crucified Jesus. It was right outside Jerusalem that Jesus arose from the dead and in Jerusalem that the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Being thus empowered from on high, the apostles preached the Good News to Jews who had gathered for the annual feast of Pentecost. These Jews were present from all parts of the Roman Empire (Acts 2:8-11). Scripture had said:
"For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem" (Isaiah 2:3). The Lord's Kingdom needed time to become established. The Jewish Christians needed time to understand the passing away of the law.
For the sake of the Gospel, God was gracious to Jerusalem for 40 years. For the sake of those Jews who would open their hearts to their Messiah, God was gracious to Jerusalem for 40 years. However, the time had to come when the temple sacrifices were more than a thing of the past in the mind of God. They had to become a thing of the past in historical reality. Therefore, God sent the Romans so that the Mosaic system of sacrifice would be wiped off the face of the earth. God sent the Romans to put a definitive end to Jerusalem being His dwelling place.
Insight #44 -- Jesus & God's Timetable
E
What mistake? Gabriel said messiah would be cut off after 69 weeks, Since Messiah was not to come until the end of 69 weeks, it is obvious he never was introduced as king now was he.
Ezekial said he would be king forever, Not be cut off.
As for pentecost??lol.. I answered you. you did not post revelent scripture you posted your ideas.
Exekial said he would be king forever, they would never leave the land again, they would never transgress by follwoing false idols and playing the harlot. and their sin would be done away with.
This did not happen in pentecost.
You still have not answered my questions. I assume you can't thats why you refuse?
E
I don't know history? lol thanks for showing me this.. Although you have not proven it.
It all happened within 70 weeks? How? Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks, that left one week. the city was made desolate some 40 years later, In hebrew terms that would be somewhere in the begining of week 76.
Before you chasten me about history. Why don't you learn some math maybe?
Here we go. Let me give you a history lesson.
1. From the time the decree went out to rebuild the CIT of jerusalem (not just the temple of many of you people want to use) until the day Jesus entered jerusalem as prophesied on the donkey, was 69 weeks, or 483 years to the day. Jesus mentioned this as he told them, If only you knew what day this was, nut now it has been hidden from you. They should have known that this was the day Messiah the king would come. For it was prophesied literally to thde day,
He was killed 7 days later, the first day of the week of years had not even got off the ground yet before messiah was cut off. So where do you get in the middle of the last week.
2. You contradicted yourself. if jesus is cut off in the middle of the 70th week. The time the city was laid desolate was later than the 76th week, more toward the 77th week.
Your math is off my friend.
Again, your math is off. "THEN" he will confirm a covenant with many for one week.
Do you know what the word THEN means? It means this follows what was previously said in the cycle of things. What happened BEFORE the word THEN was used?
Messiah was cut off. And the city and sanctuary made desolate THEN he confims...
So now you may need to take a language class?
So before we go further. lets see if we can get these facts straight.. ok?? I am not going to read a bunch of stuff when you are already contradicting yourself in two points, and can;t get your math right!
PS.. Next time you want to slam on what you consider to be someones weekness, Like history. Expect much of the same I just gave back to you.
Now if you would just like to discuss scripture, lets do this.
It all happened within 70 weeks? How? Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks, that left one week. the city was made desolate some 40 years later, In hebrew terms that would be somewhere in the begining of week 76.
Before you chasten me about history. Why don't you learn some math maybe?
Here we go. Let me give you a history lesson.
1. From the time the decree went out to rebuild the CIT of jerusalem (not just the temple of many of you people want to use) until the day Jesus entered jerusalem as prophesied on the donkey, was 69 weeks, or 483 years to the day. Jesus mentioned this as he told them, If only you knew what day this was, nut now it has been hidden from you. They should have known that this was the day Messiah the king would come. For it was prophesied literally to thde day,
He was killed 7 days later, the first day of the week of years had not even got off the ground yet before messiah was cut off. So where do you get in the middle of the last week.
2. You contradicted yourself. if jesus is cut off in the middle of the 70th week. The time the city was laid desolate was later than the 76th week, more toward the 77th week.
Your math is off my friend.
Again, your math is off. "THEN" he will confirm a covenant with many for one week.
Do you know what the word THEN means? It means this follows what was previously said in the cycle of things. What happened BEFORE the word THEN was used?
Messiah was cut off. And the city and sanctuary made desolate THEN he confims...
So now you may need to take a language class?
So before we go further. lets see if we can get these facts straight.. ok?? I am not going to read a bunch of stuff when you are already contradicting yourself in two points, and can;t get your math right!
PS.. Next time you want to slam on what you consider to be someones weekness, Like history. Expect much of the same I just gave back to you.
Now if you would just like to discuss scripture, lets do this.
E
Eh.
A single verse in Romans 11 you've twisted is all you've got to prop up a giant theological monster that's totally false.
Tribesman just addressed it.
Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
1I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3“Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
oops!
There's an Israelite who wasn't blind.
Look. This isn't hard at all:
4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice
oops!
He says at the present time there's still a remnant that will be saved.
And HOW does Paul say that had come to be?
In the same way then - according to God’s gracious choice
So? If there was a remnant in Paul's Day before 70AD, and 70AD brought wrath on the unbelievers, and 70AD brought an end to His wrath - The Covenant Curses completed, since then the Gospel goes out to jew and gentile ALL...freely....no difference. Mercy for all.
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E
Whatever are you on about, man?
Not only was Jesus prophesied all through the OT to be coming, He WAS introduced as King!
What in the world are you talking about??
Do I really have to post all the passages about Jesus being King?
So....Jesus IS NOT KING NOW?
He was cut off - Crucified! But did you know He rose from the dead?
OMG.
OK. You post your "ideas" on what the dry bones is then.
Oh wow.
So, do you think Ezekiel's vision of the temple was an actual future temple to be built...on earth?
And Jesus will come to this old Jerusalem and sit in it?
What didn't?
I've tried to respond to everything you've posted.
I can answer your questions. You just don't like the answers.
Keep posting.
Can you address some of the stuff I've posted you keep avoiding? Like how unbelieving jews future to us will:
finish the transgression
make an end of sins
make reconciliation for iniquity
bring in everlasting righteousness
seal up the vision and prophecy
anoint the most Holy.
Not only was Jesus prophesied all through the OT to be coming, He WAS introduced as King!
What in the world are you talking about??
Do I really have to post all the passages about Jesus being King?
So....Jesus IS NOT KING NOW?
He was cut off - Crucified! But did you know He rose from the dead?
OMG.
OK. You post your "ideas" on what the dry bones is then.
Oh wow.
So, do you think Ezekiel's vision of the temple was an actual future temple to be built...on earth?
And Jesus will come to this old Jerusalem and sit in it?
What didn't?
I've tried to respond to everything you've posted.
I can answer your questions. You just don't like the answers.
Keep posting.
Can you address some of the stuff I've posted you keep avoiding? Like how unbelieving jews future to us will:
finish the transgression
make an end of sins
make reconciliation for iniquity
bring in everlasting righteousness
seal up the vision and prophecy
anoint the most Holy.
E
UH....OK.
Why don't you read some History, and find out when Jesus began His Ministry, was anointed, and was Crucified OK?
Is this a joke?
You're actually not being gracious enough to really read what I've written.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70.
See?
It's not hard.
He was cut off (killed, died, crucified, murdered, put to death) AFTER AFTER AFTER 69 weeks.
What comes AFTER week 69 ^^^
is it 71? 72? an undetermined gap?
or is it 70?
ANSWER: 70.
Do you understand now?
Right. So you DO see.
AFTER 69 weeks, Jesus was cut off. In the one week (70th) which remained that had been determined to
finish the transgression*
and to make an end of sins
and to make reconciliation for iniquity
and to bring in everlasting righteousness
and to seal up the vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most Holy.
OK?
So we know now that He was cut off AFTER the 69th week, in the 70th.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
In the Middle of the week He was cut off. The middle of the 70th.
Ugh.
I'm not reposting for the hundereth time that Titus and the romans actually destroying Jerusalem are NOT included in the 70 weeks. CHRIST'S CURSE ON IT WAS THOUGH. You'll have to figure that out on your own.
Why don't you read some History, and find out when Jesus began His Ministry, was anointed, and was Crucified OK?
Is this a joke?
You're actually not being gracious enough to really read what I've written.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70.
See?
It's not hard.
He was cut off (killed, died, crucified, murdered, put to death) AFTER AFTER AFTER 69 weeks.
What comes AFTER week 69 ^^^
is it 71? 72? an undetermined gap?
or is it 70?
ANSWER: 70.
Do you understand now?
Right. So you DO see.
AFTER 69 weeks, Jesus was cut off. In the one week (70th) which remained that had been determined to
finish the transgression*
and to make an end of sins
and to make reconciliation for iniquity
and to bring in everlasting righteousness
and to seal up the vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most Holy.
OK?
So we know now that He was cut off AFTER the 69th week, in the 70th.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
In the Middle of the week He was cut off. The middle of the 70th.
Ugh.
I'm not reposting for the hundereth time that Titus and the romans actually destroying Jerusalem are NOT included in the 70 weeks. CHRIST'S CURSE ON IT WAS THOUGH. You'll have to figure that out on your own.
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Probably not, but we do have very different interpretations of some of what is written in the Bible.
The Israel of God (who is saved) is never differentiated. Never. This is the main point. Out of natural Israel some are and some will be saved. But not literally "all". There is the differentiation.
Those who are saved all belong to the elect remnant. Remember Paul said that "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Rom.9:6). Does that "all Israel" ring a bell for you? It should. Paul did not change his mind in Rom.11, all of a sudden claiming that "all Israel" means "national Israel" as you call it.
All of this was written in one and the same context (mind you that chapter and verse division is a relatively late invention)
The election of this remnant must be of the same nature as all of the election of grace. Why do you put in a "now" there? It is not in the scriptures. Scripture says that election is " before the foundation of the world" (Eph.1:4). Do you believe in election?
What I implied is that there is only one Israel in covenant with God. I shouldn't have to reiterate that.
Where did Ezekiel say that literally "all" "physical" Israel would be saved?
Yes, this prophecy has been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ. As well as all other messianic prophecies. The northern and southern kingdoms have found their king in Him. Your problem, which you share with classical dispensationalism, is your literalism.
Spiritual Israel was never divided, but all those that God calls are not yet in the one fliock. It is this covenant elect remnant that is the primary concern of God's dealing here. This was and is an ongoing ingathering of the elect from all the corners of the earth until the Lord returns. If you can get it in that here is spoken of Elect Israel and not physical Israel or a physical piece of land.
Which has all of it been fulfilled in Christ. But that you won't see because you want this to happen literally and physically.
The Israel of God (who is saved) is never differentiated. Never. This is the main point. Out of natural Israel some are and some will be saved. But not literally "all". There is the differentiation.
Those who are saved all belong to the elect remnant. Remember Paul said that "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Rom.9:6). Does that "all Israel" ring a bell for you? It should. Paul did not change his mind in Rom.11, all of a sudden claiming that "all Israel" means "national Israel" as you call it.
All of this was written in one and the same context (mind you that chapter and verse division is a relatively late invention)
The election of this remnant must be of the same nature as all of the election of grace. Why do you put in a "now" there? It is not in the scriptures. Scripture says that election is " before the foundation of the world" (Eph.1:4). Do you believe in election?
What I implied is that there is only one Israel in covenant with God. I shouldn't have to reiterate that.
Where did Ezekiel say that literally "all" "physical" Israel would be saved?
Yes, this prophecy has been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ. As well as all other messianic prophecies. The northern and southern kingdoms have found their king in Him. Your problem, which you share with classical dispensationalism, is your literalism.
Spiritual Israel was never divided, but all those that God calls are not yet in the one fliock. It is this covenant elect remnant that is the primary concern of God's dealing here. This was and is an ongoing ingathering of the elect from all the corners of the earth until the Lord returns. If you can get it in that here is spoken of Elect Israel and not physical Israel or a physical piece of land.
Which has all of it been fulfilled in Christ. But that you won't see because you want this to happen literally and physically.
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E
Agree
Agree here also. Except in romans 11 this is not the case. As I already showed. And why you do not want to see it is beyond me.
Again context comes to the forefront.
Romans 9 paul is telling us that being a physical jew does not grant you automatic entrance to heaven. and how through abraham, we are all (if we are saved spiritual jews)
Romans 11 is a whole different context. It is the difference between Isreal and gentiles.
God did not cut off some spiritual isreal and graft in some other spiritual isreal. he cut off natural isreal because of believe, and grafted in gentiles who believed.
God did not partially blind some spiritual isreal and open the eyes of others. he partially blinded national isreal, and through their belief, saved others.
God said thjis parially blindness of national isreal would take place until the time of the gentile (saved or unsaved gentile) has been fuflilled. Then all isreal (even the ones who were partially blinded) Which would be natural isreal. And not talking about a gentile of any type. would be saved.
Gentiles will be saved then too. He is not saying only Isreal is going to get saved, he is saying he will remove their blindness, and they all will recieve him.
There is no other way to interpret these passages without twisting them.
I know it was not written in chapter and verse form. But it does not matter, What we call chapter 9 speaks of true spiritual isreal, What we call chapter 11 is talking about the nation of Isreal vs the gentile, I already showed this, But for some reason you can't see it. why I can't answer.
Remnant has never been a term used to speak of a gentile. Remnant is a term used to denote those who are saved of the children of Isreal. God will alway keep a remnant. In other words, he will never let the race be destroyed. This can not be said of any other nationality or peoples.
Actually there is the Isreal that is "blessed because of abraham" and there is the Isreal that "To your and your descendants I give this land as an ETERNAL inheritance.
The first promise is spiritual Isreal, spoken of in Romans 9, and it is through Christ, of the seed of Abraham in which one is born into this Isreal.
The second has nothing to do with Christ or with salvation. It has to do with the promise made to Abraham Isaac and jacob.
My inheritance of eternal life is because of Christ, It is his, me being born in him gives me access to that and makes it mine also.,
The children of Isreal and the promises made to them, has nothing to do with them. It has to do with them being born in Abraham Isaac and jacob. Since the land and promises belong to these three fathers. By birthright, the land belongs to them. They are not living in the land they own now not because they no longer own it. But because Lev 26 told them if they sin and do all they have done and are doing, God will remove them, Disperse them to all 4 corners of the earth, and the gentiles will trample their land, Until they repent.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
This would infer that ALL children of Isreal will be gathered from the 4 corners of the earth and brought back into their land
22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel;
This would infer the where they are going. The land of canaan, or Isreal, or the land given to their fathers.
23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
This infers they have stopped idol worhsip. They have stopped playing with things that are detestable, and they have stopped trangressing Gods laws. More importanlty, it infers that they have repented, Come to Christ, (they shall be my people) been saved, and are growing with him.
Yes, this prophecy has been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ. As well as all other messianic prophecies. The northern and southern kingdoms have found their king in Him. Your problem, which you share with classical dispensationalism, is your literalism.[/quote]
What? Northern and southern kingdom. This can not be symbolised in any way shape and form without destroying Context. The leter and prophesy was written to the children of Isreal. Not to you and me (unless you are a child of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) to twist it to mean something else is to destroy Gods word and promise.
Also. He said they would never play with idols, detestable things, and transgress against God, Yet Christians do this all the time. So how could this be fulfilled.
Your problem is the same as the roman church, Your doctrines can not be proven by scripture. So you add to scripture. Twist and distort what scripture says, And take what should be literally interpreted and somehow twist it in symbolic form so you can make the word of God match your belief.
Again. Gods elect has been from adam until the last man standing. it was not even called isreal until after the birth of Christ when Paul had to destroy the false belief that being a jew automatically saved you. There were no spiritual isreal before Abraham, thus again you have to twist and distort Gods word to make your belief stand.
Physical isreal was decided. The prophets loved Israel (as did Daniel) And asked God to show them the truth. God showed them, by showing Israel would make and end of sin. Repent, be gathered back together and placed in the land given their fathers. No prophet would have used your interpretation to interpret what God said to them, they would not have even thought it. That belief did not start until anti-semetism went rampant at the formation of the roman church.
lol. now why would I want this to happen? You think I am that proud that i demand it happen? Do you think I am that pro isreal I hope it happens?
Christ did not fulfill it. We are not at the end of the age, if we were, we would not be here, Or Christ would be reigning on earth. depending on which end time view you hold. That alone would make anyone wiht an open heart understand your view can not possibly be held.
You slam any form of dispensationalism, but when scripture speaks of age or ages, you ignore them and twist them with all the other doctrines you symbolise.
Agree here also. Except in romans 11 this is not the case. As I already showed. And why you do not want to see it is beyond me.
Again context comes to the forefront.
Romans 9 paul is telling us that being a physical jew does not grant you automatic entrance to heaven. and how through abraham, we are all (if we are saved spiritual jews)
Romans 11 is a whole different context. It is the difference between Isreal and gentiles.
God did not cut off some spiritual isreal and graft in some other spiritual isreal. he cut off natural isreal because of believe, and grafted in gentiles who believed.
God did not partially blind some spiritual isreal and open the eyes of others. he partially blinded national isreal, and through their belief, saved others.
God said thjis parially blindness of national isreal would take place until the time of the gentile (saved or unsaved gentile) has been fuflilled. Then all isreal (even the ones who were partially blinded) Which would be natural isreal. And not talking about a gentile of any type. would be saved.
Gentiles will be saved then too. He is not saying only Isreal is going to get saved, he is saying he will remove their blindness, and they all will recieve him.
There is no other way to interpret these passages without twisting them.
I know it was not written in chapter and verse form. But it does not matter, What we call chapter 9 speaks of true spiritual isreal, What we call chapter 11 is talking about the nation of Isreal vs the gentile, I already showed this, But for some reason you can't see it. why I can't answer.
Remnant has never been a term used to speak of a gentile. Remnant is a term used to denote those who are saved of the children of Isreal. God will alway keep a remnant. In other words, he will never let the race be destroyed. This can not be said of any other nationality or peoples.
Actually there is the Isreal that is "blessed because of abraham" and there is the Isreal that "To your and your descendants I give this land as an ETERNAL inheritance.
The first promise is spiritual Isreal, spoken of in Romans 9, and it is through Christ, of the seed of Abraham in which one is born into this Isreal.
The second has nothing to do with Christ or with salvation. It has to do with the promise made to Abraham Isaac and jacob.
My inheritance of eternal life is because of Christ, It is his, me being born in him gives me access to that and makes it mine also.,
The children of Isreal and the promises made to them, has nothing to do with them. It has to do with them being born in Abraham Isaac and jacob. Since the land and promises belong to these three fathers. By birthright, the land belongs to them. They are not living in the land they own now not because they no longer own it. But because Lev 26 told them if they sin and do all they have done and are doing, God will remove them, Disperse them to all 4 corners of the earth, and the gentiles will trample their land, Until they repent.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
This would infer that ALL children of Isreal will be gathered from the 4 corners of the earth and brought back into their land
22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel;
This would infer the where they are going. The land of canaan, or Isreal, or the land given to their fathers.
23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
This infers they have stopped idol worhsip. They have stopped playing with things that are detestable, and they have stopped trangressing Gods laws. More importanlty, it infers that they have repented, Come to Christ, (they shall be my people) been saved, and are growing with him.
Yes, this prophecy has been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ. As well as all other messianic prophecies. The northern and southern kingdoms have found their king in Him. Your problem, which you share with classical dispensationalism, is your literalism.[/quote]
What? Northern and southern kingdom. This can not be symbolised in any way shape and form without destroying Context. The leter and prophesy was written to the children of Isreal. Not to you and me (unless you are a child of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) to twist it to mean something else is to destroy Gods word and promise.
Also. He said they would never play with idols, detestable things, and transgress against God, Yet Christians do this all the time. So how could this be fulfilled.
Your problem is the same as the roman church, Your doctrines can not be proven by scripture. So you add to scripture. Twist and distort what scripture says, And take what should be literally interpreted and somehow twist it in symbolic form so you can make the word of God match your belief.
Again. Gods elect has been from adam until the last man standing. it was not even called isreal until after the birth of Christ when Paul had to destroy the false belief that being a jew automatically saved you. There were no spiritual isreal before Abraham, thus again you have to twist and distort Gods word to make your belief stand.
Physical isreal was decided. The prophets loved Israel (as did Daniel) And asked God to show them the truth. God showed them, by showing Israel would make and end of sin. Repent, be gathered back together and placed in the land given their fathers. No prophet would have used your interpretation to interpret what God said to them, they would not have even thought it. That belief did not start until anti-semetism went rampant at the formation of the roman church.
lol. now why would I want this to happen? You think I am that proud that i demand it happen? Do you think I am that pro isreal I hope it happens?
Christ did not fulfill it. We are not at the end of the age, if we were, we would not be here, Or Christ would be reigning on earth. depending on which end time view you hold. That alone would make anyone wiht an open heart understand your view can not possibly be held.
You slam any form of dispensationalism, but when scripture speaks of age or ages, you ignore them and twist them with all the other doctrines you symbolise.
E
In perfect irony, you are actually right in your blasphemy: God showed them, by showing Israel would make and end of sin.
I wonder what happens in the mind filled with dissonance when it sees this:
Hosea 1:1
"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Matthew 2:15
He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."
Do you love ISRAEL...
Are you EVER going to get around to explaining how the jews future to us will -
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.
Just unbelievable.
See the prophet Hosea above - if you have eyes to see.
I wonder what happens in the mind filled with dissonance when it sees this:
Hosea 1:1
"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Matthew 2:15
He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."
Do you love ISRAEL...
Are you EVER going to get around to explaining how the jews future to us will -
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.
Just unbelievable.
See the prophet Hosea above - if you have eyes to see.
I'm not convinced of that interpretation. I see only one elect remnant, not at any point is "all Israel" meaning literally "all Israel", even you do not believe that. So, those israelites that are still to be "grafted in" must be among that elect remnant. Together with the elect gentiles they make up "the Israel of God".
Do you see your thing here? You ADD the words/understanding TIME and THEN. They are not in these scriptures. Because you think this way (plus having a literal interpretation of related prophecies) you believe that these events MUST be future. True, the full number of the elect remnant is yet to be gathered in. But beyound that there is no promise for literally "all" physical Israel in this context. Many would say that futurists are doing the twisting here.
This is (partly) correct. However, the saved elect gentiles ARE also called Israel. Paul is overly clear on that. And the covenantal signs and seals continues into the NT, so this principle do not exclusively apply to "physical" israelites but also in the "gentile church". Though in the context of Rom.11 it is clear that Paul is speaking of the israelite remnant. But these two groups of believers make up ONE people.
And both of these promises (as well as the seed promise) have already been fulfilled.
There are only two to see this; literal or spiritual. As you belong to the first camp, I have to ask you: do you see it coming and when? How is it going to happen? Maybe even you and I are descendants of the Patriarchs, does it mean we have a right to go down to the land and put up a nice house there? Will every descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob be moved to settle in the promised land at one and the same time and all legal hindrances be blown away to that end? Can you expound on this?
Why would symbolism destroy the context? The Bible works very much with symbols and there are plenty of them in NT that well would not only refer to but also explain the events spoken of by Ezekiel in said chapter (see for instance John 17 and Rev.21) . On the other hand Netanyahu have said that Ezekiel 37 have now been fulfilled, do you agree with him?
Hey, I am not adding anything, I am INTERPRETING, but from a different angle than you. One of these angles is that ALL promises have had their yea and Amen IN Christ. You on the other hand ADD "time" and "then" to Rom.11 which are not there. Btw, preterism does not have to be roman.
You are still approaching this from the wrong angle. None has denied what you are saying. But we have two different time schedules here. For me these promises has already been fulfilled. You still wait for them to that end, why is beyond me.
Oh, and I hope you don't go down that road "replacement theology is antisemitic!" bro. Such nonsense would be detrimental to the discussion.
LOL! I don't know how you think, just as you don't know how I think. But obviously you are into futurism and wait for the 70th week of Daniel etc, this is what I gather. So, surely, you must be waiting for these things to happen in some future. How and why, can only you answer.
Speaking about how contemporary jews would have understood the messages of their prophets, I find it very strange that you interpret words like "the end of the age" and "the end of the world" as meaning literally "all" the world and "the end of all earthly life" and similar. "The world" for these people were THEIR nation, THEIR temple and its worship etc. Clearly much of this was fulfilled in AD 70.
The dispies take on "age/s" are not biblically consistent. Hence my denouncement.
Do you see your thing here? You ADD the words/understanding TIME and THEN. They are not in these scriptures. Because you think this way (plus having a literal interpretation of related prophecies) you believe that these events MUST be future. True, the full number of the elect remnant is yet to be gathered in. But beyound that there is no promise for literally "all" physical Israel in this context. Many would say that futurists are doing the twisting here.
This is (partly) correct. However, the saved elect gentiles ARE also called Israel. Paul is overly clear on that. And the covenantal signs and seals continues into the NT, so this principle do not exclusively apply to "physical" israelites but also in the "gentile church". Though in the context of Rom.11 it is clear that Paul is speaking of the israelite remnant. But these two groups of believers make up ONE people.
And both of these promises (as well as the seed promise) have already been fulfilled.
There are only two to see this; literal or spiritual. As you belong to the first camp, I have to ask you: do you see it coming and when? How is it going to happen? Maybe even you and I are descendants of the Patriarchs, does it mean we have a right to go down to the land and put up a nice house there? Will every descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob be moved to settle in the promised land at one and the same time and all legal hindrances be blown away to that end? Can you expound on this?
Why would symbolism destroy the context? The Bible works very much with symbols and there are plenty of them in NT that well would not only refer to but also explain the events spoken of by Ezekiel in said chapter (see for instance John 17 and Rev.21) . On the other hand Netanyahu have said that Ezekiel 37 have now been fulfilled, do you agree with him?
Hey, I am not adding anything, I am INTERPRETING, but from a different angle than you. One of these angles is that ALL promises have had their yea and Amen IN Christ. You on the other hand ADD "time" and "then" to Rom.11 which are not there. Btw, preterism does not have to be roman.
You are still approaching this from the wrong angle. None has denied what you are saying. But we have two different time schedules here. For me these promises has already been fulfilled. You still wait for them to that end, why is beyond me.
Oh, and I hope you don't go down that road "replacement theology is antisemitic!" bro. Such nonsense would be detrimental to the discussion.
LOL! I don't know how you think, just as you don't know how I think. But obviously you are into futurism and wait for the 70th week of Daniel etc, this is what I gather. So, surely, you must be waiting for these things to happen in some future. How and why, can only you answer.
Speaking about how contemporary jews would have understood the messages of their prophets, I find it very strange that you interpret words like "the end of the age" and "the end of the world" as meaning literally "all" the world and "the end of all earthly life" and similar. "The world" for these people were THEIR nation, THEIR temple and its worship etc. Clearly much of this was fulfilled in AD 70.
The dispies take on "age/s" are not biblically consistent. Hence my denouncement.
E
romans 11:
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
If I did not love Isreal. I would be going against Pauls command, They are my enemie for the sake of the gospel, because they reject it, But they are beloved because of Gods promise to the fathers, for Gods promise are irrevocable, They STILL STAND, even though you for some reason want me to think they no longer stand.
I already did. Ez 37.
Isreal will repent. and realise they killed their own messiah. in doing so they will call on the name of the lord and be saved.
Isreal will be gathered and returned to their land.
They will stop with her idol worship, with their law worship and relise the temple and law have been done away with.
They will serve God, and do away with their transgressions (not be perfect, none of us are perfect)
God will place in their city the annointed king. who will take david's throne.
in other words, ALL ISREAL will be saved.
you can deny it all you want, you can cut me down all you want, you can do whatever you want, Scripture is clear on the matter, what you say or believe will not change that fact!
Yes you are unbelievable.
Hosea 1: 1 The word of the Lord that came to Hosea son of Beeri during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and during the reign of Jeroboam son of Joash king of Israel:
I think you meant hosea 11: 1
11 ‘When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
2 But the more they were called, the more they went away from me.[a]
They sacrificed to the Baals
and they burned incense to images.
3 It was I who taught Ephraim to walk,
taking them by the arms;
but they did not realise
it was I who healed them.
4 I led them with cords of human kindness,
with ties of love.
To them I was like one who lifts
a little child to the cheek,
and I bent down to feed them.
Unless you think Christ went away from God, Sacrificed to baal, burned incess to graven images. This is not talking about Christ.
Nice try,,
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
If I did not love Isreal. I would be going against Pauls command, They are my enemie for the sake of the gospel, because they reject it, But they are beloved because of Gods promise to the fathers, for Gods promise are irrevocable, They STILL STAND, even though you for some reason want me to think they no longer stand.
I already did. Ez 37.
Isreal will repent. and realise they killed their own messiah. in doing so they will call on the name of the lord and be saved.
Isreal will be gathered and returned to their land.
They will stop with her idol worship, with their law worship and relise the temple and law have been done away with.
They will serve God, and do away with their transgressions (not be perfect, none of us are perfect)
God will place in their city the annointed king. who will take david's throne.
in other words, ALL ISREAL will be saved.
you can deny it all you want, you can cut me down all you want, you can do whatever you want, Scripture is clear on the matter, what you say or believe will not change that fact!
Yes you are unbelievable.
Hosea 1: 1 The word of the Lord that came to Hosea son of Beeri during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and during the reign of Jeroboam son of Joash king of Israel:
I think you meant hosea 11: 1
11 ‘When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
2 But the more they were called, the more they went away from me.[a]
They sacrificed to the Baals
and they burned incense to images.
3 It was I who taught Ephraim to walk,
taking them by the arms;
but they did not realise
it was I who healed them.
4 I led them with cords of human kindness,
with ties of love.
To them I was like one who lifts
a little child to the cheek,
and I bent down to feed them.
Unless you think Christ went away from God, Sacrificed to baal, burned incess to graven images. This is not talking about Christ.
Nice try,,
E
We we will have to disagree then.
The context is.
Isreal is partially blind
They will be until the fulness of the gentiles is complete.
Then ALL Isreal will be saved.
They (Isreal) are hated for the sake of the gospel, but beloved for the sake of the fathers, for Gods gifts and calling are irrevocable (they will never fail, they will stand forever)
hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in
"Until the fulness of the gentiles is complete, or have come in" Try to help me understand. If thus does not mean a specific period of time, what else could it possible mean?
And some might be able to say I am twisting. But they would have a hard time. Paul did nto speak in allegory, He stated facts of things which would happen. Not taking him literally would be dangerous/
[/quote]This is (partly) correct. However, the saved elect gentiles ARE also called Israel.
Paul never makes this distingction in romans 11. Your just assuming he meant this for whatever reason. Paul did not say any gentile was partially blind, he said isreal was. Paul did nto say any gentile was our enemy, he said Isreal was. etc etc etc..
in romans 11 Paul is talking about gentile vs Isreal. Nothing in romans 11 would make us believe otherwise. Your adding to the words of paul
They can't have been fulfilled., it is an eternal covenant., Eternal goes forever. If they are no longer valid, it would not have ever been an eternal covenant, and God lied.
God did not say either of these things.
1. I give you this land until you completely possess it, then if you do not do what I say, i will take it from you
2. I give you this land as long as you obey my laws and follow me.
The land belongs to abraham, God then confirmed this covenant with isaac and jacob. It is theirs, meaning any child who is born of their loins own this land as an inheritance. They are not living their because of sin, God said if they sinned God will remove them an gentiles will trample it until you repent. God just fullfilled his judgment for sin on their behalf.
But the land still belongs to abraham, isaac and jacob, thus any one who is born of their loins, The only way this would stop being in effect is
1. The land no longer exists.
2. There are no more people alive who have physically descended from abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Ezekial says GOd will bring them back. They are not just going to move in. God will bring them in.
How will he do it? that is not for me to decide, i trust him to keep his word and fulfill his prophesy, thats all I need to know. God did not tell moses how he was going to kick the people out of cainan when he sent him to pharoah, He said trust me, We must trust God like Moses did. and let God take care of the rest.
The point is, Isreal has to repent first, or non of this will happen. what we see now is Not God restoring Isreal,
No.
1. Isreal is still in sin.
2. Isreal is still in rebellion against God
3. The fulness of the gentiles is not yet complete. or the gentiles owuld not still be trampling isreal.
etc etc.
john 17? Christs preistly prayer. how is that allegory?
rev 21? again not allegory, those things will literally take place after this world is destroyed.
well you have not proved paul did not speak of a particular time, you just assume it, I can't do that,
1. I am not waiting on them, chances are I will not be there when they happen.
2. God said they will happen. Like he said the messiah will come and he came, Like he said there would be 4 gentile kingdoms and there are, Like he said ther would be many things and they literally took place.
What separates God from false gods is this, When God says this is going to happen, it happens.
I am just stating where I believe it came from thats all. Everyione likes to use the seeming fact no one believed it until the reformation. I am just showing how I disagree with that theory, and showing why no one believed in it during the roman tyrany of the roman church, No one could believe it until the reformation, it does not mean it is new or is false. it means that it was trampled by rome, and no one would be allowed to believe it while rome held power.
The problem is they still asked about an age, 70 AD was not the end of any age, nor did the promises of the OT concerning th enation of Isreal been completely fulfilled.
Thats just your belief, which I strongly disagree.
The context is.
Isreal is partially blind
They will be until the fulness of the gentiles is complete.
Then ALL Isreal will be saved.
They (Isreal) are hated for the sake of the gospel, but beloved for the sake of the fathers, for Gods gifts and calling are irrevocable (they will never fail, they will stand forever)
hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in
"Until the fulness of the gentiles is complete, or have come in" Try to help me understand. If thus does not mean a specific period of time, what else could it possible mean?
And some might be able to say I am twisting. But they would have a hard time. Paul did nto speak in allegory, He stated facts of things which would happen. Not taking him literally would be dangerous/
[/quote]This is (partly) correct. However, the saved elect gentiles ARE also called Israel.
Paul never makes this distingction in romans 11. Your just assuming he meant this for whatever reason. Paul did not say any gentile was partially blind, he said isreal was. Paul did nto say any gentile was our enemy, he said Isreal was. etc etc etc..
in romans 11 Paul is talking about gentile vs Isreal. Nothing in romans 11 would make us believe otherwise. Your adding to the words of paul
They can't have been fulfilled., it is an eternal covenant., Eternal goes forever. If they are no longer valid, it would not have ever been an eternal covenant, and God lied.
God did not say either of these things.
1. I give you this land until you completely possess it, then if you do not do what I say, i will take it from you
2. I give you this land as long as you obey my laws and follow me.
The land belongs to abraham, God then confirmed this covenant with isaac and jacob. It is theirs, meaning any child who is born of their loins own this land as an inheritance. They are not living their because of sin, God said if they sinned God will remove them an gentiles will trample it until you repent. God just fullfilled his judgment for sin on their behalf.
But the land still belongs to abraham, isaac and jacob, thus any one who is born of their loins, The only way this would stop being in effect is
1. The land no longer exists.
2. There are no more people alive who have physically descended from abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Ezekial says GOd will bring them back. They are not just going to move in. God will bring them in.
How will he do it? that is not for me to decide, i trust him to keep his word and fulfill his prophesy, thats all I need to know. God did not tell moses how he was going to kick the people out of cainan when he sent him to pharoah, He said trust me, We must trust God like Moses did. and let God take care of the rest.
The point is, Isreal has to repent first, or non of this will happen. what we see now is Not God restoring Isreal,
No.
1. Isreal is still in sin.
2. Isreal is still in rebellion against God
3. The fulness of the gentiles is not yet complete. or the gentiles owuld not still be trampling isreal.
etc etc.
john 17? Christs preistly prayer. how is that allegory?
rev 21? again not allegory, those things will literally take place after this world is destroyed.
well you have not proved paul did not speak of a particular time, you just assume it, I can't do that,
1. I am not waiting on them, chances are I will not be there when they happen.
2. God said they will happen. Like he said the messiah will come and he came, Like he said there would be 4 gentile kingdoms and there are, Like he said ther would be many things and they literally took place.
What separates God from false gods is this, When God says this is going to happen, it happens.
I am just stating where I believe it came from thats all. Everyione likes to use the seeming fact no one believed it until the reformation. I am just showing how I disagree with that theory, and showing why no one believed in it during the roman tyrany of the roman church, No one could believe it until the reformation, it does not mean it is new or is false. it means that it was trampled by rome, and no one would be allowed to believe it while rome held power.
The problem is they still asked about an age, 70 AD was not the end of any age, nor did the promises of the OT concerning th enation of Isreal been completely fulfilled.
Thats just your belief, which I strongly disagree.
E
You are an heretic. God have mercy on your soul.
Matthew 2
The Escape to Egypt
13After they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, because Herod intends to search for the child and kill him.” 14So Joseph got up, took the child and his mother, and left at night for Egypt. 15 He stayed there until Herod's death in order to fulfill what was declared by the Lord through the prophet when he said, “Out of Egypt I called my Son.”
1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Matthew 2
The Escape to Egypt
13After they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, because Herod intends to search for the child and kill him.” 14So Joseph got up, took the child and his mother, and left at night for Egypt. 15 He stayed there until Herod's death in order to fulfill what was declared by the Lord through the prophet when he said, “Out of Egypt I called my Son.”
1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.