GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Lighthearted

Senior Member
Oct 17, 2016
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It's important to rightly divide the Word.
What was Law for the first century Jew is good for the age of Grace...because sin is expensive by way of tribulations in your life...because we still reap what we sow.
All of God's word is true...however it's important to figure out if you are under the Law or under Grace.
Studyman basically was saying something about those men responsible for the crucufiction of Jesus because they didn't believe He was the Messiah...that's because the great mystery...God blinded them from the truth so they would crucify Jesus...Just as Satan was blinded to the fact that Jesus would be resurrected! Amen!
The Bible talks about the dispensation and dividing the word. The reason there is so much confusion amongst Christians is that everyone is still mixing law and Grace and not rightly dividing the Word Of Truth.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
GOD states in the New Covenant that HIS Law, HIS Word, The Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law are to be in our hearts, in our minds, and in our mouths not me.

Right there in the middle of that which GOD said would be in our hearts, and in our minds, and in our mouths through Christ. The Sabbath is in the Decalogue and all through the Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law, HIS Word.
 

Lighthearted

Senior Member
Oct 17, 2016
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And I know there are people here that will argue...and that's fine...I expect it...just remember that that's the problem in churches...we are divided that way...but we are brothers and sisters through Jesus...and we are to love one another...so take it easy y'all.
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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External obedience to the Commandments does not mean the Word of God is in one's heart. What are you trusting in for salvation? Obeying the 10 commandments? Keeping the sabbath day holy?
By their fruits you shall know them.
Is that what you are trusting in as the means of receiving eternal life?
Christ (His Word; His Commandments written in the Book of the Law) in us the hope of Glory.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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External obedience to the Commandments does not mean the Word of God is in one's heart. What are you trusting in for salvation? Obeying the 10 commandments? Keeping the sabbath day holy? Have you PERFECTLY obeyed the 10 commandments? Is that what you are trusting in as the means of receiving eternal life? How do you answer the question, "What must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30)

True and salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" is rotten fruit (Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9) that is a perversion of the Gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).
By their fruits you shall know them. Christ (His Word; His Commandments written in the Book of the Law) in us the hope of Glory.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]





[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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well were is it?
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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But your posts never address the main issues. Quoting lots of verses proves nothing. They have to be looked at in context. LOL you should have been an Israelite. They were commanded to keep the Sabbath. WE have entered into our Sabbath rest, and are free. IF we are bound to keep the Sabbath give me one verse from the epistles which says so
Here you go you must have missed these...

God's Law (10 commandments) repeated in the New Testament

1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
It is written: You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only you shall serve. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)

2 You must not make for yourself a carved image, a likeness of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the sea.
God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)

3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)

4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The Sabbath [seventh day] was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
Is binding on all mankind today COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH THREAD (Linked)

5 Honour your father and mother.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. (Ephesians 6:1; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)

6 You shall not murder.
I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)

7 You shall not commit adultery.
I say to you whoever even looks at another in lust has already committed adultery in their heart. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)

8 You shall not steal.
Neither thieves, the greedy, or drunkards and robbers will inherit the Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)

9 You shall not bear false witness.
For by your words, you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)

10 You shall not covet your neighbours possessions.
Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist of the things he possesses. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

There is a lot of scriptures here and we have not even looked at all the scriptures in the NT on the 10 commandments on which the 4th commandment is one of the ten. If you disagree please adress the post and provide your scruiptures. If you cannot you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God. We only have today. Tomorrow may be to late.

.............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
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It's important to rightly divide the Word.
What was Law for the first century Jew is good for the age of Grace...because sin is expensive by way of tribulations in your life...because we still reap what we sow.

All of God's word is true...however it's important to figure out if you are under the Law or under Grace.

Studyman basically was saying something about those men responsible for the crucufiction of Jesus because they didn't believe He was the Messiah...that's because the great mystery...God blinded them from the truth so they would crucify Jesus...Just as Satan was blinded to the fact that Jesus would be resurrected! Amen!
The Bible talks about the dispensation and dividing the word. The reason there is so much confusion amongst Christians is that everyone is still mixing law and Grace and not rightly dividing the Word Of Truth.
Hi LH, nice to meet you and welcome to the thread.

Just a few comments on what you are sharing which it is very nice to get a different view. I believe the problem is that many do not understand what the OLD Covenant is and what the NEW Covenant is and the purposes of the different laws used to make up these Covenants.

Do you know what the OLD COVENANT is and the purposes of the different laws used in the Old Covenant? (You do not need to answer this; just something to pray and think about)

In the NEW COVENANT we are completely SAVED by GRACE it is a GIFT of GOD and not of WORKS lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8);

However if your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEIENCE to God's LAW (10 Commandments) through LOVE then you are still in your SINS because you have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (James 2:18; 20; 26) and God's Word says if you have no FRUIT your tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matt 7:12-23; Hebrew 10:26-27)

To be "UNDER the LAW" means to be guilty of SIN or breaking God's Commandments (Romans 3:19-20). If you are under GRACE then you are OBEDIENT to the FAITH (Romans 1:5) and through FAITH God's LAW (10 Commandments) are ESTABLISHED in the life of the BELIEVER (Romans 3:31).

Please read check the scriptures provided here. Hope this is a blessing for you as you continue in God's Word..

..........

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Sabbath observance did not precede the Law of Moses. This is presumption or wrong because the Sabbath was kept in Ex 16 before the law was given and the Sabbath was given to man at creation. By mouth the laws were passed on from generation to generation, but at Sinai God wrote it in stone.

God's requirement for ""Israel"" to keep the Sabbath does not exist until after the deliverance from Egyptian bondage. And gentiles were never a part of this Law Covenant.

Are the gentiles saved in a different way to the Jews? The Jews were definitely Gods people and were given laws to obey but how are they saved? By faith,
Were there laws in place before Israel left Egypt? Yes, It can be proven that killing was a sin and that Adultery was a sin and that having other gods before God was a sin, so laws did exist before Ex 20.
God said remember the Sabbath because it was already a law that the people had, and needed reminding of.
Circumcision was given to Abraham because of sin, but the Sabbath was given to all mankind at creation.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.



Are the people of God just Jews?
You need to understand that the Ten Commandments are different to all the other laws.
No one has any issue about any of the other 9 laws (except the catholics) but the Sabbath means that you throw out the whole law. Can i kill today, can i steal today by grace, can i take the Lords name in vain and think it's OK, saying "it was just for the Jews and the new covenant means i don't need to obey any laws anyway". ??
Sabbath observance did not precede the Law of Moses. This is presumption or wrong because the Sabbath was kept in Ex 16 before the law was given and the Sabbath was given to man at creation. By mouth the laws were passed on from generation to generation, but at Sinai God wrote it in stone.

Exodus 16 is included in the 'Law of Moses' , which is in fact the Law of God, given through Moses.

the Sabbath was given to man at creation. This is truly presumption!

Gen 2:2-3 is also included in the 'Law of Moses' , which is in fact the Law of God, given through Moses.

Gen 2:2-3 tells us that God rested and proclaimed the 7th day holy. NOWHERE does Scripture indicate that man was instructed to rest at that time.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,397
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What? You are mistaken. What version are you reading from?

And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
(Act 6:13-14 KJV)
Couple that with the condemnation Stephen throws out at them through the Spirit at the end of his discourse.

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
(Act 7:51-54 KJV)
that is what I said. Stephen was arrested on charges of not keeping the law, and then stoned for accusing the jews of not keeping it. even though the accusation was false, that is why he was arrested.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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valiant,
re: "...you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment."


Hebrews 4:9 "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath."


It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath.


Why did you NOT quote the verse accurately?

Heb 4
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
KJV

The rest referred to in Heb 4:1 is a citation of Matt 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
KJV

First century Rabbis (in the Babylonian Talmud) speak of the yoke of Torah as the duty of Jewish people to keep not only the 613 instructions found in the Law; but also all the Talmudic embellishments.

In verses 29 and 30, when Jesus speaks of His yoke, He is comparing His two essential commandments with Law keeping.

In verse 28 The rest Jesus speaks of is rest from trying to please God through your own efforts.


This is the same rest spoken of in Heb 4:9.

This is NOT speaking of a Sabbath! It speaks of freedom from Law keeping.

It is NOT something for God's people to do! It is something Jesus gives to us!

Intentional perversion of Scripture is NOT a good thing!!!!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,951
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mailmandan,
re: "Which translation is that?"

The "Holy Bible: From the Ancient Eastern Text" - from the Aramaic Scriptures - called the Peshitta

interesting article on the ((singular)) author of that "version"

GEORGE M. LAMSA: Christian Scholar or Cultic Torchbearer? - Christian Research Institute

it seems that Mssr Lamsa denies Christ rose from the dead and also denies He will return. he also denies that Christ is the only way to the Father and denies that He atoned for sin at the cross. which makes him an antichrist according to scripture, and perhaps serves to explain how radically different his "version" of the Bible is from everyone who holds orthodox doctrine.

but i mean hey, read the article, do your own research, draw your own conclusions, right?
 
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Jun 5, 2017
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It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath. Why did you NOT quote the verse accurately? 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
He did from the Aramaic version of the bible. The Word used for REST here is Sabbaton (Sabbath)

ASV There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
AMP So there remains a [full and complete] Sabbath rest for the people of God.
AMPC So then, there is still awaiting a full and complete Sabbath-rest reserved for the [true] people of God;
CEV But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.
KJV There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
NASB So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
NCV This shows that the rest for God’s people is still coming.
NET Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.
NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
NKJV There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
NLT So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God.
NRSV So then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;
RSV So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God;

The Word used for REST is Sabbaton....

Hebrews 4:9 (NAS)
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest G4520 to the people of God.”

The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)

Strong's Concordance 4520

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


Strong's Greek 4520

σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

You may need to revisit your interpretation of the scriptures my friend it is not biblical

..........

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Sabbath observance did not precede the Law of Moses. This is presumption or wrong because the Sabbath was kept in Ex 16 before the law was given and the Sabbath was given to man at creation. By mouth the laws were passed on from generation to generation, but at Sinai God wrote it in stone.

Exodus 16 is included in the 'Law of Moses' , which is in fact the Law of God, given through Moses.

the Sabbath was given to man at creation. This is truly presumption!

Gen 2:2-3 is also included in the 'Law of Moses' , which is in fact the Law of God, given through Moses.

Gen 2:2-3 tells us that God rested and proclaimed the 7th day holy. NOWHERE does Scripture indicate that man was instructed to rest at that time.
Hello MarcR,

Thinking that God's Sabbath was not kept before Exodus 16 is a presumption that has no basis in scripture. There is more scripture supporting the existence of all of God's laws being practiced(10 Commandments and Mosaic Sin offerings) BEFORE Sinai in Exodus 20 then the theory that they only appeard at Sinai. Let's have a look at the scriptures.....

GODS COMMANDMENTS BEFORE EXODUS 20

Genesis 26
5,
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 5
24, And Enoch walked with God:
and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6
8,
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

God destroys mankind because of sin......

Genesis 6
5,
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only EVIL CONTINUALLY.
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


What are these CONTINUAL EVIL THOUGHTS?

Matthew 15
19,
For out of the heart proceed EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, ADULTERIES, FORNICATION, THEFTS, FALSE WITNESS, BLASPHEMIES
20, These are the things which defile a man:

Evil is breaking God's Commandments in thought and actions.

Cain was punished by God for Murder......

Genesis 4
8,
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9, And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10, And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11, And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12, When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13, And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

links to....

1 John 3
12,
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

The Mosaic laws for remission of sin (SACRIFICIAL SIN OFFERINGS) were also practiced BEFORE Sinai....

Genesis 4
4,
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering.

Genesis 8
20,
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar


SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 Commandments) please read Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:11. God's LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20) SIN offereings were only practiced in the OLD Covenant for the remission or forgiveness of SIN (Breaking God's 10 Commandments) If God's people did not have God's LAW why are they offering SIN offereings to God if these laws were only known about in Mt Sinai?

Abraham and his son practiced and knew about sin offerings...

Genesis 22
7,
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Exodus 10
25,
And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

Yep once again before Sinai...

LETS LOOK NOW SPECIFICALLY AT THE 4th COMMANDMENT SABBATH

The Sabbath was also kept by our first parents and also others BEFORE Sinai. The reason God gave the 10 Commandments again was being His people had been slaves in Egypt for 430 years (Exodus 12:40). God delivered his people from Egypt (the World) and needed to re-teach them his ways which were mostly forgotten by this time.

So yep God's LAW and the laws for remission of sin and burnt offerings of the OLD Covenant were indeed practiced BEFORE Sinai.

The Sabbath was made at the 7th Day of the creation week and given to Adam and Eve. Let's look at the scriptures........

Genesis 2
1,
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

RESTEDH7673שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v.to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root]KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep Sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away. Some points to note from the scriptures...............

v1 God completed creation in 6 days and RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v2 God RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v3 God SET APART the 7TH DAY and made THE 7TH DAY a HOLY DAY
v2 The 7TH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEKLet's now look at God's 4th commandment............

Exodus 20
8,
Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested theSEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

SABBATH H7676 שַׁבָּת shabbath (shab-bawth') n-e. 1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.[intensive from H7673]KJV: (+ every) Sabbath. Root(s): H7673Now who did God make the 7th day a Holy day for? Is he making that day a Holy day for himself? Of course NOT God is already Holy. He has made the day for MANKIND as a HOLY DAY.

Let’s see what Jesus says…………

Mark 2
27,
And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the Sabbath.
The Sabbath was made for WHO? The Sabbath was made for MAN. So here we have the God of creation telling us why the 7th Day was made a Holy day. It was made for MANKIND

STRONGS Greek MAN G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n.
1. (literally) man†-visage (i.e. a man-faced being, a man who has visibly come of age).
2. (concretely, in Hebrew) a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female). 3. (generically, in English) a human being. 4. (indefinitely) a certain man (i.e. someone).
[from G435 and ops “the countenance” (from G3700)] KJV: certain, man Root(s): G435, G3700

So the Sabbath was made for Human beings; clay beings (we are made out of the dust); male and female

So God made the 7th day of the week a HOLY day and blessed it for MAN this now ties in very nicely with the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) God says that it is a specific day which is the 7TH DAY OF THE WEEK that he has made to be a HOLY DAY.

Jesus says it was made Holy in the creation week for mankind. All scriptures connect and are in harmony. Genesis where God made the Day a HOLY DAY;

God’s 4th commandment to His people that says to REMEMBER the Sabbath day to KEEP it a HOLY DAY and Jesus stating that the Sabbath was made for MANKIND (Human beings; male and female).

Now if God made the Sabbath for mankind then obviously Adam and Eve had the Sabbath the GREEK Word for MAN G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n. is a clay being(a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female). There is only two people made out of clay (dust) and that is Adam and Eve.

Yep God's Sabbath given to mankind in the Garden of Eden and made in the Creation WEEK. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE it. Those that do not BELIEVE God's Word are UNBELIVERS and UNBELIEVERS have no part in God's Kingdom.

Now I have taken some time to address all of your posts. Please if you disagree please state your case and your scriptures? Simply ignoring my posts does not make the scriptures go away that disagree with you.

...............

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 
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you just explained at length about the law being different pieces , then I point out that the word LAW is singular, not plural
I am not sure what you are trying to say here. I am assuming you are referring to the Greek Word meaning for law "nomos" being used for law meaning all law in the NEW Testament?

This is correct, however your application and your interpretation of it is not correct. Let's see why?

The Word meaning all comes down to CONTEXT and how it is used that determines its application......

NEW TESTAMENT MEANING FOR LAW "NOMOS"

This is because generally the word used for law in the NEW Testament Greek meaning is "nomos" νόμος ;nomos ;nom'-os From a primary word νέμω nemō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), generally (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle): - law.

This word is used to cover all the OLD testament laws collectively that make up the OLD Covenant (TORAH) but it is the application of the word used in CONTEXT of the chapter and within scripture CONTEXT that determines its application and meaning.

The use of the term law (nomos) in the New Testament is comparable. In some instances the word law refers to the Old Covenant Scriptures, and the focus is on the Pentateuch: “the Law and the Prophets” (Matt. 5:17; 7:12; 22:40; Luke 16:16; 24:44; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 24:14; 28:23; Rom. 3:21; Matt. 11:13).

In some texts “Law” alone seems to refer broadly to the Old Testament Scriptures (Matt. 22:36; Luke 10:26; John 7:49; 10:34; 12:34; 15:25; 1 Cor. 9:8–9; 14:21, 34; Gal. 4:21), though in some of these texts a particular precept from the Mosaic law may be in view as well (John 7:49; 1 Cor. 9:8–9; 14:34).

Nevertheless, in the New Testament, as we saw in the Old Testament, the term law most often refers to what is commanded in the Gods law (10 Commandments). Matthew speaks of every “iota” and “dot” of the law (Matt. 5:18), and it is clear from the next verse that he is referring here to the “commandments” found in the law (Matt. 5:19).

Elsewhere Matthew considers particular matters commanded in the law (Matt. 22:36; 23:23). Similarly, Luke often uses the word law to refer to what is prescribed in statutes (Luke 2:22, 23, 24, 27, 39; Acts 23:3) or uses the term to refer collectively to what is commanded in God's 10 Commandments (Acts 6:13; 7:53; 13:39; 15:5; 21:24; 22:3, 12; 25:8). Similarly, when John does not use the word law to refer to the Pentateuch or the Scriptures, he uses it to refer to the Mosaic law (John 7:19, 23, 51; 8:17; 19:7).

Paul regularly thinks of the law in terms of its commands, and this is evident because he speaks of those who sin by violating the law, of the need to do what the law says, and of relying upon and being instructed in the law (Rom. 2:17, 18, 20).

When Paul speaks of righteousness (Rom. 3:21; 9:31; 10:4; Gal. 2:21; 3:11; 5:4; Phil. 3:6, 9) or the inheritance (Rom. 4:13–14, 16; Gal. 3:18) not being attained via the law, he has in mind doing what the law commands.

The law is conceived of as a body of commands summarized in the Mosaic covenant, which came at a certain time in history (Rom. 5:13; 7:4, 6; 9:4; 1 Cor. 9:20, 21; 15:56; Gal. 2:19; 3:17, 19, 21), and the phrase “under law” fits here as well (Rom. 6:14, 15; 7:1; Gal. 3:23, 24; 4:4, 5; 5:18).

In the book of Hebrews the word law always refers to the Mosaic law for remission of sin and the levitical priesthoodand to the Mosaic covenant (Heb. 7:5, 11, 12, 19, 28; 8:4; 9:19, 22; 10:1, 8, 28), with the focus being on the prescriptions for priests and sacrifices that are offered.

The above is not exhaustive but show that it is the CONTEXT and application of the Greek word "nomos" that determines what law it is referring to wheather God's LAW (10 Commandments), the Mosaic laws individually or collectively as the Torah or OLD Covenant.

OLD TESTAMENT EQUIVALLENT FOR LAW GREEK WORD LAW (NOMOS) IS TORAH
The word for law in the Old Testament Hebrew is torah; in the Greek New Testament it is nomos. It is often said that torah in the Old Testament does not refer so much to commands (to the keeping of commandments) as it does to instruction (to teaching) of the five books of Moses (Genesis; Exodus; Leviticus; Deuteronomy and Numbers)

However in the Old Testament other descriptive words are used (e.g. Commandment(s); Statute(s); Ordinance(s); Testimony (ies) and Rule(s) to name a few) to separate the various laws of the Torah (collective) but once again like has been shown above the general word Torah can be used to refer to any one of the other words and it is the CONTEXT of application the determines the specific meaning

For example....

Verbs for Obedience

KEEP
(Gen. 26:5; Deut. 17:19; 28:58; 31:12; Josh. 22:5; 1 Kings 2:3; 1 Chron. 22:12; Ps. 119:34, 44; Prov. 28:4; 29:18; Jer. 16:11; Ezek. 44:24) WALK IN (Exod. 16:4; 2 Kings 10:31; Ps. 78:10; Jer. 26:4; 32:23; 44:10; Dan. 9:10) DO (Deut. 27:26; 29:29; 31:12; 32:46; Josh. 1:7–8) BREAK (Deut. 27:26; 29:29; 31:12; 32:46; Josh. 1:7–8) OBEY (Isaiah 42:24)

Verbs for Disobedience


FORGET
(Hos 4:6; Ps. 119:61, 109, 153) TRANSGRESS (Dan 9:11 ) ABANDON (2 Chron 12:1) FORSAKEN ( Psalms 89:30; 119:53; Jer. 9:13) REJECT(S) (Isa 5:24; Jer 6:19; Amos 2:4)

SO NO Gb9 your application and argument is shown through the scriptures to be false. The meaning of the word is generated through the CONTEXT of scripture application in the NEW Testament application of the Greek word used for law (nomos) as well as the OLD Testament use of the Hebrew word Torah and other Hebrew Words used to describe God's 10 Commandments.

and say I have run out of Scripture, after I pointed out that Stephen was arrested and stoned with being charged with teaching against the law, and stoned for telling the jews that they were not keeping it, you say I did not address what you said.
Yes indeed it seems you have run out of scripture. Maybe you can pray about it..............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 
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the Sabbath was given to man at creation. This is truly presumption!
And yet it is Jesus that says it....

Mark 2
27,
And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath:
28, Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

It seems the presumption is only on your part.

Gen 2:2-3 tells us that God rested and proclaimed the 7th day holy. NOWHERE does Scripture indicate that man was instructed to rest at that time.
So in your view Jesus is lying when he says that the SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN? Good luck trying to say that the Creator come judgement day.

.................

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
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lightbearer

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interesting article on the ((singular)) author of that "version"

GEORGE M. LAMSA: Christian Scholar or Cultic Torchbearer? - Christian Research Institute

it seems that Mssr Lamsa denies Christ rose from the dead and also denies He will return. he also denies that Christ is the only way to the Father and denies that He atoned for sin at the cross. which makes him an antichrist according to scripture, and perhaps serves to explain how radically different his "version" of the Bible is from everyone who holds orthodox doctrine.

but i mean hey, read the article, do your own research, draw your own conclusions, right?
You do know he is not the Author of the Peshitta right? He only produced a translation of it. The oldest existing Peshitta dates to the the 5th century. And there is scholarly backing that dates it's origin to the 1st Century. However the Mainstream does not support this.
 

PS

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What? You are mistaken. What version are you reading from?

And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
(Act 6:13-14 KJV)
Couple that with the condemnation Stephen throws out at them through the Spirit at the end of his discourse.

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
(Act 7:51-54 KJV)
"Stephen was bitterly opposed to the Temple in Jerusalem and its sacrificial cult. He revered the Law of Moses but considered the temple cult an illegitimate part of it. For Stephen, Moses was “both ruler and deliverer” (Acts of the Apostles 7:35); he had delivered “living oracles,” the true law; and he had promised that God would raise up another prophet (Jesus) as he had raised up Moses (7:37). Stephen seems to think of Jesus as the “restorer of Mosaic religion.” In his discourse, he sets Aaron over against Moses, the Temple over against the tent, and Solomon, who built the Temple, over against David, who was persuaded not to. For Stephen, the building of the Temple was a bit of idolatry, comparable to Aaron’s golden calf; “the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands” (7:48)."

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Stephen

Steven's difficulty was that while upholding Mosaic Law, he was opposed to the teaching of the Temple priests and the Temple cult. He spoke out against the Temple cult and was stoned to death probably by the same people who plotted against Jesus. If the Saturday Sabbath has its origins in the teaching of the Temple priests, then I can well understand Christ's and Stephen's opposition to the cult to which I would add my support. If Saturday Sabbath stems from the temple cult, then it needs to be denounced.
 
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mailmandan

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Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
I never said any different.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
How does that conflict with what I said in regards to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Romans 1:16? First to the Jew then to the Gentile.

I don't believe religious traditions like creating images of God after the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model
You keep making this strange comment about a long haired men's hair shampoo model and I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you have been watching too much TBN. :confused:

or observing ancient religious High Days or "Feasts unto the Lord" or creating your own Sabbaths, or lack there of are "Works worthy of repentance". It didn't work for the mainstream preachers that killed Jesus and the Prophets, I don't believe it will work for todays mainstream preachers.
Turning keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant and perverting the Gospel by teaching that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works" are not works worthy of repentance. You are completely mixed up.

I must admit, I didn't think about using an "s" after one word in Matthew, who didn't even acknowledge the repentant criminal, to create or consider a whole doctrine of "death bed conversion".
It's not about creating a whole doctrine of death bed conversion. The thief on the cross was a unique situation, but nonetheless, it was a death bed conversion in his case.

I'm not back peddling, I have considered it and realize how ridiculous it is to create or believe a doctrine that ignores everything we know about salvation, based on one letter at the end of a word spoken by a man that didn't even acknowledge the story to begin with. And I find it even more astounding that you would carry on as if you have no idea what I'm talking about.
I find it astounding that you cannot simply grasp the fact that in Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING and that being crucified as a thief, blasheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus is not the fruit of repentance/faith. You shall know them by their fruits, right? Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Simple!

LOL, OK, read the highlighted portion. You and your religion do preach that the Pharisees were trying to obey the "letter of the Law". This lie infects your entire religious doctrine.
My religion? So the Pharisees had absolutely nothing to do with the Law and did not set out to obey it at all? They completely ignored the Law of Moses altogether? Interesting. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said - Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. As Jesus was going through the grain fields on the Sabbath, his disciples began to pick some heads of wheat as they made their way and the Pharisees accused them of doing what is against the law on the Sabbath (Mark 20:23-28), yet the Pharisees were not trying to follow the letter of the law here either according to your argument. The Law forbade any work on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:20).

As a result you preach it wasn't the traditions and doctrines of man that the Pharisees preached as Law, that was the problem, it is God's Laws that are against us.
The traditions and doctrines of man that the Pharisees added to the Law were certainly a problem.

Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The Pharisees were guilty of transgressing the commandment of God by their tradition, but that does not mean they made no attempts to follow the letter of the Law whatsoever. Why would they even bother to accuse the disciples of doing what is against the Law on the Sabbath if that was not the case?

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

It is a lie to preach that Jesus rejected the Pharisees because they were trying to follow God's Instructions "to the letter". If they had "Tried to follow God's Instructions" they would have known God as Jesus promised.
I'm not saying that Jesus rejected the Pharisees because they were trying to follow God's instructions, "but just didn't try hard enough." The Pharisees rejected Jesus and were not genuine believers. Many people who are "religious, but not right with God" set out to try and follow God's instructions (on their terms, not His). Setting out to try and follow God on your terms and not His doesn't mean you truly know Jesus. Look at Roman Catholicism which is a mixture of truth and lies, scripture and tradition, yet they set out to follow God's instructions and in their eyes, they believe they are following God's instructions. When I see the Pope and Bishops of the Roman Catholic church I think of modern day Pharisees.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
So according to your interpretation here, ONLY those who "perfectly obey" (is that how you define "keep?") His commandments (which you define as the 10 commandments?) are those who love Jesus and Jesus will manifest Himself to them?

This is another perfect example of your man made religious preaching. When did God ever instruct people to "Fast twice a week"? This Pharisee is no different than those in Matthew 7:23. This man had created his own religion, then boasted about it. The other man understood the truth about all mankind. Why is that? Why did Jesus manifest Himself to this man and not the Pharisee? Jesus just answered this question in John 14. This humble man followed God's Instructions (sayings) not some ancient religious tradition, and therefore Jesus gave him the truth.
This is another perfect example of your straw man argument. The point of the parable is: *He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: *This humble man (tax collector) standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner! Following God's instructions (sayings) is the fruit or righteousness, yet you turn it into the means of righteousness. All this talk about religious tradition vs. God's instructions, yet you still miss the heart of the matter. (Philippians 3:9)

It's not a straw man argument and it goes to the very heart of this discussion. Since you preach the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws and not their own, you believe it is God's Law that is bad, not man made doctrines. So in Col. 2, when Paul is warning about.
I never said that God's Law is bad (straw man argument!), the Law is good (Romans 7:16) yet NOBODY has ever perfectly obeyed God's Law EXCEPT JESUS CHRIST. The problem with the Pharisees and Israel in general is found in Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES​.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You imply be your preaching that this is referring to God's Laws, not "Commandments of Men" as it was intended..

So when you get to the cross.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

You preach this wasn't the Law created and pushed on the Jews for centuries by the Pharisees, you preach this is talking about God's Instructions that you preach the Pharisees were "obeying with pride". This lie leads to another.
Setting out to obey the letter of the Law with pride does not mean the Pharisees were actually obeying God's instructions and the Law actually condemns us because we have ALL broken the Law (Romans 3:23; 6:23). Your false accusation leads to another. Your main argument seems to be that the Pharisees created their own religion entirely build on man made tradition and will be condemned based on that (they also never set out to obey any of God's instructions found in the Law), but people like you perfectly obey God's instructions found in the Law and will be saved based on that. :rolleyes:

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Since you preach this was God's Laws that were against us and nailed to the cross, you must also preach Jesus "spoiled" God as the principality and power that killed Jesus. That Jesus exposed God and made a show of Him openly, since you preach it was God's Laws He nailed to the cross. You must then preach that Jesus "Triumphed" over God on the cross.
Another straw man argument. There is something you need to realize about the 10 commandments THAT YOU HAVE NOT PERFECTLY OBEYED:

*He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
 

lightbearer

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valiant,
re: "...you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment."


Hebrews 4:9 "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath."
Why did you NOT quote the verse accurately?
He did.


From Vines: <A-4,Noun,4520,sabbatismos>
"a Sabbath-keeping," is used in Heb 4:9, RV, "a sabbath rest," AV marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath"...

From Thayers unabridged: G4520
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);
1. a keeping Sabbath.

From Mounce: σαββατισμός sabbatismos 1x
properly. a keeping of a Sabbath;....

From G Abbott Smith: G4520
*† σαββατισμός, -οῦ, ὁ
(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exo_16:30, al.),
a keeping Sabbath...

Mounce brings it out the clearest for those of us who do not understand how these lexicons should be understood. That is why I highlighted it in bold. The proper understanding of the word in question is a "keeping of a Sabbath" not a Sabbath rest; but a keeping of a Sabbath.

The way that a word should be understood is generally put forth first. Then some lexicons share how the word in question is translated in various translations.


Since it is derived from the Hebrew, the Greek word for Sabbath, "sabbaton". It should not be translated rest or Sabbath rest but a keeping of a Sabbath.


[Quote
=MarcR;3435140
]9

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

[/Quote]9.There remaineth therefore a keeping of a Sabbath to the people of God.


10.For he that is entered into his rest [received the Gospel], he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His.

Did you get that? Because of receiving the Gospel we cease from our own works as GOD did from His. "As is" is a direct comparison. So with that you must ask yourself how and when did God cease from his own works?
The answer to that is recorded in Gen 2.... on the Seventh Day, And God did rest from all His work on the seventh day (see Hebrews Verse 4:4 and Genesis Chapter 2:1-3).

God Is a Spiritual Being he is always in the state of Spiritual Rest. HE did not enter to the rest of the Gospel. HE is the rest of the Gospel for us through Christ Jesus.
On the Seventh Day Sabbath he ceased from the physical labor of creation. And this is recorded in Genesis 2.

Therefore they that have received the Gospel, cease from their own physical work as God did from His physical work on the 7th day Sabbath. And this is, was and will continue to be done on the Seventh day of the week.

If the Seventh Day Sabbath was done away with or was of no consequence then why mention it here in Hebrews and why would it be mentioned in the New Earth.

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(Isa 66:23 KJV)
 
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