GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Dan_473

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2 Timothy 2: 24. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Why are you ranting?
Jesus fulfilled the law.
Maybe you’re hung up on the fourth commandment because you haven’t entered into the rest of God.
Have you broken the 4th commandment and are now trying to fix it?

I believe you have missed the point of teaching sabbath altogether.
Follow Jesus and learn the truth about the sabbath rest of God, and how the law is but a schoolteacher leading you out of the condemnation of the letter of the law, unto Christ who shall set you free to love everyday.
Yes Jesus did fulfill the LAW; All of God's 10 Commandments were filfilled in Jesus otherwise he could not be a perfect sacrifice. Fulfilled does not mean that he ABOLISHED God's 10 Commandments. There is only rest in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God. Many believe like the devils but do not FOLLOW.
 
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reminds me of
John 16: 13. However, when he, the Spirit of true knowledge, has come, he will be your guide into all true knowledge: for his words will not come from himself, but whatever has come to his hearing, that he will say: and he will make clear to you the things to come. 14. He will give me glory, because he will take of what is mine, and make it clear to you.
This scripture connects well with...

Acts 5
32,
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

God's Spirit is HOLY and no one has God's Spirit if they are living in KNOWN UNREPENTANT Sin.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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This scripture connects well with...

Acts 5
32,
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

God's Spirit is HOLY and no one has God's Spirit if they are living in KNOWN UNREPENTANT Sin.
maybe the holy spirit comes and goes with every known sin

something doesn't quite sound right about that, though

if that's what you're saying


1 Timothy 3: 15. but if I wait long, that you may know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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well, you are right in one thing, that it only takes a little study.

below they are listed along with the scripture ((authored by the God of Abraham)) where they are written:
[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]G-d


  1. To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1). See What Do Jews Believe?.
That is a misinterpretation of what GOD ordained as LAW. The Commandment from GOD is, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Verse 2 is an indicative expression, not a LAW to be obeyed. Notice nothing is being commanded. "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."
(Exo 20:2-3 KJV)

The 613 mitzvah are an interpretation of what is Written. Some of them are GOD ordained laws, some are not.

They are a summary from a group of men not GOD.
 
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Jun 5, 2017
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Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

This scripture connects well with...

Acts 5
32,
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

God's Spirit is HOLY and no one has God's Spirit if they are living in KNOWN UNREPENTANT Sin.
maybe the holy spirit comes and goes with every known sin

something doesn't quite sound right about that, though

if that's what you're saying

1 Timothy 3: 15. but if I wait long, that you may know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
God's Spirit is the Spirit of truth. He comes to ALL who will hear God's WORD.

To those who are in SIN he comes to convict if SIN and truth. But not all will hear him and by rejecting God's Word we can grieve him so that you will no longer hear him.

To those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD he lives IN them and testifies of God's WORDS.

................

There are of course conditions for receiving God's Spirit....

We must BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. What does God's Word say?

Act 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19
Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Act 8:22
Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Act 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20
But showed first to them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

1 John 1:9,
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

..................

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN (UNBELIEF and BREAKING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS)

Genesis 6
5,
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6,
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it GRIEVED HIM AT HIS HEART.
7,
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.

Eph 4:30

And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.

Pslams 95
10,
Forty years long was I GRIEVED with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11, To whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Hebrews 3
10,
Why I was GRIEVED with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

17, BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18,
And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19,
So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF.

Psa 119:158

I BEHELD THE TRANSGRESSORS AND WAS GRIEVED; because they kept not your word.

...................

KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

..................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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2 Timothy 2: 24. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:(Mainstream preaching)
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 

Studyman

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The 613 Mitzvot laws were written after the Babylonian exile by the Levitical priests, in an attempt to prevent any further re-occurrences of exile. Moses was of the priestly tribe of Levi and as a result the laws have been attributed to him.

The false teachers are many. They were there in the time of Christ and are with us today. I have spent the last few years battling against it on another forum where my screen name was 1an. There will be people here who will know me from there. It was the worst time of my life. The people I was battling against, one in particular was a Jew who called himself a Christian and he was very adroit in what he said and how he phrased it. He denied the deity of Christ including the Col. 1:16 passage you quote and many more like it. These are the false teachers, they come from the ranks of the Jews and they twist the words of Jesus and deny the deity of Christ, which no Christian would ever do. See my signature for who Jesus is.
To be frank, it matters little what the Jews wrote, or Constantine, or Jones, Smith, Bakker, the Pope, or any man. From the beginning satan has used God's Word, and men who would twist them, to trick people into disobedience.

That is the end result of all the serpents actions. To prove that people will follow it and it's hundreds of differing doctrines over God's One perfect instruction. It succeeded with Eve and Cain, but not with Abel, Noah and Abraham. It succeeded with the Children of Israel, but not with Caleb. With the wicked kings of Israel, but not with Isaiah. It succeeded with the Pharisees, but not with Zechariahs and Elizabeth, and not with Jesus and Peter though it surely tried.

My beef isn't with anyone personally unless they are furthering what they know is false doctrine. There are some on this forum that meet that description. Mostly I want a discussion, not in defense of religious traditions of any organized church. But an intellectually honest conversation about what the Bible actually says. And the preaching that the God of Abraham demanded all His people to obey 613 laws is false. But as you can see, there are "Many" who claim Jesus as their savior, who preach this exact thing.

This is one falsehood. Lets root them out together and expose them all.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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God's Spirit is the Spirit of truth. He comes to ALL who will hear God's WORD.

To those who are in SIN he comes to convict if SIN and truth. But not all will hear him and by rejecting God's Word we can grieve him so that you will no longer hear him.

To those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD he lives IN them and testifies of God's WORDS.

................

There are of course conditions for receiving God's Spirit....

We must BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. What does God's Word say?

Act 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19
Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Act 8:22
Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Act 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20
But showed first to them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

1 John 1:9,
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

..................

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN (UNBELIEF and BREAKING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS)

Genesis 6
5,
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6,
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it GRIEVED HIM AT HIS HEART.
7,
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.

Eph 4:30

And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.

Pslams 95
10,
Forty years long was I GRIEVED with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11, To whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Hebrews 3
10,
Why I was GRIEVED with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

17, BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18,
And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19,
So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF.

Psa 119:158

I BEHELD THE TRANSGRESSORS AND WAS GRIEVED; because they kept not your word.

...................

KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

..................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
reminds me of

1 Samuel 19: 23. He went there to Naioth in Ramah. Then the Spirit of God came on him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24. He also stripped off his clothes, and he also prophesied before Samuel, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:(Mainstream preaching)
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
yes, just be sure it's done with gentleness kindness and self control
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Australia
When Jesus said that, He was defending people accused of breaking the Sabbath. He defended David's breaking the Law by eating the showbread ans was saying that breaking the Sabbath was no different. He was saying that the people who broke the Sabbath were more important than the Sabbath.
People are more important than the the law, but if the the law could have been changed or removed than Jesus would not have needed to die. Just change the law and the death penalty could have been avoided.

Jesus had to die because the penalty of sin was death. sin is the transgression of the law.
Take away the law and there is no sin and no death.
The fact that Jesus Died for our sin proves that the law still stands.

The law = love (God and our neighbor), it is Holy Just and Good, but it is what condemns us as sinners.

Paul states it well..
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


When did sin start and is sin around today?
Jesus takes away the penalty and the death that sin brings but not the law.
If the Law ended at the cross than there would be no sin from that point. People are more important than the law but the law is unchangeable. This put God in a hard position, Change the law or kill the people??? One better! - keep the law and pay there debt for them. Justice and Grace perfectly working together.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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People are more important than the the law, but if the the law could have been changed or removed than Jesus would not have needed to die. Just change the law and the death penalty could have been avoided.

Jesus had to die because the penalty of sin was death. sin is the transgression of the law.
Take away the law and there is no sin and no death.
The fact that Jesus Died for our sin proves that the law still stands.

The law = love (God and our neighbor), it is Holy Just and Good, but it is what condemns us as sinners.

Paul states it well..
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

When did sin start and is sin around today?
Jesus takes away the penalty and the death that sin brings but not the law.
If the Law ended at the cross than there would be no sin from that point. People are more important than the law but the law is unchangeable. This put God in a hard position, Change the law or kill the people??? One better! - keep the law and pay there debt for them. Justice and Grace perfectly working together.
Yes good post TMS, many mix up LAW and LOVE and the rold God's LAW has in Salvation to LOVE another. LOVE is the key but only the LAW can show us what LOVE is so that we can be free to LOVE another as Jesus first LOVED us. ALL of God's Commandments are fulfilled on the two great Commandments of LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I have seen this many times. A nice job of cut and paste. Very, subtitle, very cleaver. I won't waste my time parsing this whole list again. But I will expose, again, your intent in using it.

It is a sin to create, partake or acknowledge Idols. One Law. Yet you use this web site and claim that every mention of idolatry are separate laws and counted towards to 613. That is dishonest. This makes it look like God has so many laws, but the Biblical fact is He doesn't. It is another deceit you further.

It is a sin to commit incest. There are almost 25 sentences what you preach are separate laws describing who not to have incest with, when it is only one law. That is also dishonest and designed to make God's Commandments look so burdensome and so many in number that Jesus had to come a save us from His Father. There are instructions for Levites. You are not a Levite. There are instructions for women. You are not a women. There are instructions for Kings. You are not a King. Yet, you promote these as part of the 613 commandments for you. Dishonest, deceitful and purposely so.

Just like your false preaching about Col. 2 that Jesus battled against God because of all these hundreds and hundreds of burdensome laws that are against us, so Jesus wiped them out, fought against God, making a show of God openly, Triumphing over that mean, unjust God of Abraham, and having victory over Him, triumphing over Him before the whole world.

This is just another of many falsehoods you promote to justify your hatred of the True God, and to support the god you created with the long hair and the perfect profile.

So once again, you are exposed for the deceiver you are. Purposefully miss-representing and miss-leading as to the number and purpose of the Instructions Jesus created and gave to Moses before becoming a man.

Now you can move on to the next deceit which is your custom.

Don't care about the number.


Do you confess that everything in that list is from the mouth of God or do you deny it?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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You have no way of knowing whether 5778 is correct and if it is not, it would not invalidate the calendar. Only the notion of the year of creation would be in question.

The Jewish calendar does NOT have 28 day months. It has six 29 day months [even months] and six 30 day months [odd months] for a total of 354 days. 7 times in a 19 year cycle an extra 29 day month is added as a leap year.

19x365.25=6939.75 days 19x354+ 7x29 = 6929. Every even year, an extra is added to the 8th month. This causes the Jewish calendar to be .25 day out of sync with the solar calendar every 19 years. Every 76 years, the eighth month retains 29 days to bring the Jewish calendar in perfect sync with the solar calendar.
The earth is billions of years old.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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To be frank, it matters little what the Jews wrote, or Constantine, or Jones, Smith, Bakker, the Pope, or any man. From the beginning satan has used God's Word, and men who would twist them, to trick people into disobedience.

That is the end result of all the serpents actions. To prove that people will follow it and it's hundreds of differing doctrines over God's One perfect instruction. It succeeded with Eve and Cain, but not with Abel, Noah and Abraham. It succeeded with the Children of Israel, but not with Caleb. With the wicked kings of Israel, but not with Isaiah. It succeeded with the Pharisees, but not with Zechariahs and Elizabeth, and not with Jesus and Peter though it surely tried.

My beef isn't with anyone personally unless they are furthering what they know is false doctrine. There are some on this forum that meet that description. Mostly I want a discussion, not in defense of religious traditions of any organized church. But an intellectually honest conversation about what the Bible actually says. And the preaching that the God of Abraham demanded all His people to obey 613 laws is false. But as you can see, there are "Many" who claim Jesus as their savior, who preach this exact thing.

This is one falsehood. Lets root them out together and expose them all.
People tend to hold to the traditions they were taught as children. If irrefutable evidence is presented, the majority will refuse to accept it. I think it best to focus on the teaching of Jesus. He knew the law better than anyone and as far as I am concerned what Jesus says goes.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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please have a look at the list i provided for your perusal.
I have seen the list many times and have a similar copy somewhere on my computer. I even posted it on the internet if I can remember where.

Are you saying Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy were fabricated after the exile and are not scripture??
No.

do you reject Genesis, too?
Certainly not, although I do think the early chapters are misunderstood. One example being Adam. He and his family are the first people in Jewish history, but not world history. Cain and Able were farming the land and breeding sheep. The first people were hunter gathers.

or am i not understanding the accusation you are making about these books?
I believe they are a reasonably true account of Jewish history. Bearing in mind history is written by the victors and it is the history of ONE small nation and not world history or the history of any other nation.
 
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PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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The Escape:
If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
(Matthew 16:24-25)

Or do you not know, brothers — for I am speaking to those who know the Law — that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?

(Romans 7:1)

For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
(Romans 6:7-9)


it really is that simple, that He may be All in All
Then why are you preaching Old Testament Judaism which has been blotted by God who gave the Jews a New Covenant that was sealed by the blood of Jesus?
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Then why are you preaching Old Testament Judaism which has been blotted by God who gave the Jews a New Covenant that was sealed by the blood of Jesus?
I'm not 'preaching' anything but what you quoted. The gospel of Christ, come from heaven, taken on flesh, crucified, raised the third day, ascended, and returning to gather His own and judge all things.


All the accusation is words others put in my mouth, mocking and scorn. Nothing, vanity, ignorance.