GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[lightbearer]

I believe that on encountering a belief that is completely opposed to your own belief, one has the option of laughing in derision or weeping in pity. Having exhausted the option of weeping in pity; laughing in derision is all that remains.

Yes Weeping but not laughing.

Laughing shows a heart of indifference; not the heart of Christ.

We are speaking on Colossians 2:14 remember?

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselvesand definitely not the Decalogue.

And mind you it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is. Those writings are they which describe the Life which is available to us in Christ Jesus. These and the Decalogue are they which are in our hearts, minds, and mouths though Christ's indwelling.

Let's take a look.

Romans 10:6-8 and Hebrews 8:10 are the same prophecy just spoken differently at different times. Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut. 30:10-14 And Hebrews 8:10 is a paraphrase of Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Let's start in Deut.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep
his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But
the wordis very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand".

With the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.

With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh; manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

 

[lightbearer]

Put this in conjunction with the law being in force for all.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yes The subject of the paragraph is us being the light of the World through Christ. In verse 18 the word translated fulfilled in the KJV is ginomia. It means come to be and should be translated so due to it's tense and the context of the passage.

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all come to be.(Mat 5:14-18)

The "all" in verse 18 is those to whom he is speaking to that are lights unto the World.

 

[PS]

Yes The subject of the paragraph is us being the light of the World through Christ. In verse 18 the word translated fulfilled in the KJV is ginomia. It means come to be and should be translated so due to it's tense and the context of the passage.

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all come to be.(Mat 5:14-18)

The "all" in verse 18 is those to whom he is speaking to that are lights unto the World.

Salt and Light
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Change of subject

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all [God's plan of salvation] be fulfilled.

 

[Endoscopy]

Read ad the main definition of law dear

Basically, law is a rule that is enforce by authorities,

10 commandment is a rule, not optional but it is enforce, if you not do it you will punished.

if it just a rule, no punishment for violators, it's not a law

10 c is a rule with punishment

it it is a law.

It it has been blotted and fulfill by New Covenant

The law in the Torah has 613 rules. Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. In saying that He stated the law will be in force until the heavens and earth disappear. Therefore all people are under the law. As Christians we sin breaking the law but in Christ the penalty is removed from us and put on Jesus when He was crucified.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Does the law of the spirit of life in Christ (Romans 8:2) allow us to ignore what day it is?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Does the royal law (James 2:8) allow us to ignore what day it is?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Let's examine James 2:14-26.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

You can't.

I've heard numerous SDA's profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to New Testament doctrine with the result being salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

My translation of that verse you quote is good (in my opinion.) Its NLT. It says, wisdom is shown to be right by her results.

Now I better go look it up because I'm going from memory...

 

[Grandpa]

Does the law of the spirit of life in Christ (Romans 8:2) allow us to ignore what day it is?

The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus shows us what day it is.

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And I see the truth of that verse played out in my life. I see that by trusting Him instead of working to perform the law, He actually makes me more lawabiding in my inner man (the inside of my cup), not less. So wisdom is shown to be right by her results.

 

[Ralph-]

Does the law of the spirit of life in Christ allow us to love GOD and mankind, and ignore what day it is?

Yes, but it does not allow you to potentially cause a brother to stumble who's conscience doesn't allow him to ignore it. In fact, the law of the Spirit of life DEMANDS that you not cause him to stumble because the law of the Spirit is based on the law of love. Paul said you sin against Christ when you cause people to go against their conscience:


"take care that this liberty of yours (for example, to not keep Sabbath) does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
11For through your knowledge (that we don't HAVE to keep Sabbath) he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
12And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ."-1 Corinthians 8:9,11-12

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, but it does not allow you to potentially cause a brother to stumble who's conscience doesn't allow him to ignore it. In fact, the law of the Spirit of life DEMANDS that you not cause him to stumble because the law of the Spirit is based on the law of love. Paul said you sin against Christ when you cause people to go against their conscience:

So are you saying that everyone should not work on Saturdays because some brother's faith is weak?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So are you saying that everyone should not work on Saturdays because some brother's faith is weak?

I think he is saying we should let a man speak about how we all will not see the kingdom if we don't go to church on Saturday and that we should not bother him and just let him keep preaching it because to counter him might cause him to sin regarding his conscience.

 

[Grandpa]

the fourth commandment has not been abolished. It is addressed to those within
the Mosaic covenant, for whom it was intended, ISRAEL

As for Sunday worship. that was observed in Acts 20.7. To suggest that it is a 'catholic tradition' is misleading. But the seventh day was NOT a day of worship. It was a day of REST given to ensure slaves benefited also

The 4th commandment has not been abolished. It is addressed to ALL who would try and be righteous before God by their own strength and understanding.

Once a person finds out that they can't be righteous by their own strength and understanding they have found out that yoke they are attempting to bear is too much for them.


But apparently there are two choices here when I thought there was only one.

1. Come to Christ, all you who labour and are heavily laden.

2. Continue in your labour pretending you are doing it and pretending that it is the goal.


Hmmmm. Difficult choice... Give glory and praise to myself and my understanding and strength... or... Give glory and praise to the Lord Jesus Christ for all the blessings He has given us.

Still trying to decide.... Number 2 is awfully tempting. So many are doing it.

Nope. I guess not. Once you have come to Christ and grown in His Grace its not likely you will go back to the yoke of bondage.

 

[graceNpeace]

Yes, but it does not allow you to potentially cause a brother to stumble who's conscience doesn't allow him to ignore it. In fact, the law of the Spirit of life DEMANDS that you not cause him to stumble because the law of the Spirit is based on the law of love. Paul said you sin against Christ when you cause people to go against their conscience:


"take care that this liberty of yours (for example, to not keep Sabbath) does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
11For through your knowledge (that we don't HAVE to keep Sabbath) he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
12And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ."-1 Corinthians 8:9,11-12

I have copied and pasted the reply to a very similar post from you on another thread because it is absolutely relevant:

lovegodforever spent his EVERY waking moment on this forum trying to convince the rest of us to violate our conscience and worship exclusively on a Sunday!

I speak as someone who devoted a lot of time to countering his lies and deceptions.
I can say that I never had a problem with him worshipping on the Sabbath - but I objected strongly to his ongoing, aggressive and very insistent claims that Sunday worshippers would be condemned as carriers of the Mark of the Beast.

LGF also spent a lot of time ridiculing everyone's beliefs who did not agree with his by openly mocking them as not being biblically based....
I decided to use this very issue to challenge his doctrines, and found, surprise surprise, that the basis of his doctrines have NO Biblical foundation whatsoever.
(I already knew the basis of his doctrines having undertaken plenty of research into the history and theology of the SDA church.)
In the process I also discovered that LGF would resort to every tactic of lies, subterfuge, and deception to hide this uncomfortable fact!
This was done in a cynical and calculated fashion - he knew he was lying!
His actions were NOT the actions of a sincere, if misinformed, individual acting according to his conscience....

So, I think you should find a more deserving object for your sympathy!

 

[Ralph-]

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

That's what law keeping Christians believe too.

It's just that they are convicted by conscience that the work that accompanies genuine faith includes keeping the Sabbath, just as we believe that not stealing is work that accompanies genuine faith.

The problem is the church has been indoctrinated to only be able to understand literal law keeping as categorically and without exception you trying to earn your salvation with no other reason being possible for you doing that. If keeping Sabbath is you trying to earn your own salvation, simply because it's a work of the law, then 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18) is also you trying to earn your salvation.

 

[blue_ladybug]

​I worship on Sunday. Always have, because that's the day that my family and I always went to church when I was growing up. And because I don't know what day the actual sabbath is on...lol

 

[Ralph-]

I think he is saying we should let a man speak about how we all will not see the kingdom if we don't go to church on Saturday and that we should not bother him and just let him keep preaching it because to counter him might cause him to sin regarding his conscience.

You can share why you personally believe that you do not HAVE to keep a literal Sabbath, and move on. What you can not do is insist he give up his claims about Sabbath keeping. There are some in this forum who think they need to do that for the sake of the church. Paul does not agree with that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Old Covenant

Six days you shall work for the things of this world, but the seventh day you shall cease from that mindset so that you may know GOD.

New covenant

Every moment seek foremost the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness and GOD will take care of your worldly needs (Matthew 6:24-34)

 

[Grandpa]

That's what law keeping Christians believe too.

It's just that they are convicted by conscience that the work that accompanies genuine faith includes keeping the Sabbath, just as we believe that not stealing is work that accompanies genuine faith.

The problem is the church has been indoctrinated to only be able to understand literal law keeping as categorically and without exception you trying to earn your salvation with no other reason being possible for you doing that. If keeping Sabbath is you trying to earn your own salvation, simply because it's a work of the law, then 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18) is also you trying to earn your salvation.

IF a Christian said he believed that he wasn't allowed to steal on Saturdays but the rest of the week it was ok and you disagreed with him, he could just say you only understand working at the law in order to earn salvation.

I don't steal on Saturdays because it is Gods Will.

Do you see how silly that argument is yet?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Still trying to decide.... Number 2 is awfully tempting. So many are doing it.

A lot of believers are double-minded