GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Yes. God forgives us our sins and blots them out.

I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
(Isa 43:25 KJV)



To it being about AVOIDING the false doctrines of men......
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
Matters not.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And mind you it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is. Those writings are they which describe the Life which is available to us in Christ Jesus. These and the Decalogue are they which are in our hearts, minds, and mouths though Christ's indwelling.

For GOD has said HE will put HIS Laws; HIS Word; HIS Christ in our hearts, minds, and mouths. That is the Faith in which we preach.

(Heb.8:10; Rom 10:6-8)
LOL you just call the law Christ. Same thing to you.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
LOL you just call the law Christ. Same thing to you.
LOL?

If someone makes a mistake or is wrong to you in relation to the Word of GOD; it is funny to you?

We are speaking on Colossians 2:14 remember?

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And mind you it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is. Those writings are they which describe the Life which is available to us in Christ Jesus. These and the Decalogue are they which are in our hearts, minds, and mouths though Christ's indwelling.

For GOD has said HE will put HIS Laws; HIS Word; HIS Christ in our hearts, minds, and mouths. That is the Faith in which we preach.

(Heb.8:10; Rom 10:6-8)
Let's take a look.

Romans 10:6-8 and Hebrews 8:10 are the same prophecy just spoken differently at different times. Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut. 30:10-14 And Hebrews 8:10 is a paraphrase of Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Let's start in Deut.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep
his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But
the wordis very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand".

With the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.

With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh; manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
 
Last edited:

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
basically, this is my point

right, what caught my eye was that Jesus quotes one of the 10 C, and says Moses said

to me, it sounds like whether God said it or Moses, it's really the same, since Moses was a prophet

hence, trying to divide up the law into Moses said and God said doesn't really fit
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.
Put this in conjunction with the law being in force for all.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
This showed me something I haven't seen before. The first pair of tablets were exposed for everyone to see, but the second pair were hidden in the ark, which symbolizes Christ. This signifies that righteousness would not come through law, but through Christ who would have to die.

This same sort of thing happened when GOD told Israel the first time to enter the promised land. That was in the fall of the year (time of first-ripe grapes) when the festival of tabernacles would have occurred (the time of rest from yearly labors), and when Noah's ark rested. They would have entered their rest in Canaan from the south without having to cross the Jordan River, which symbolizes death. But they did not enter because of unbelief, and had to enter during Passover in the springtime through the Jordan River, which signified the death of Christ, our Passover.

I'm always struck with how GOD initially dealt with Israel as if they wouldn't sin, but afterwards responded with a different way that dealt with their sin.
You have blown me away with this! :)
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
Suggest you read your Bible ..

The answer is in God's WORD.....

ROMANS 3 [19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

PSALMS 119 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

CONCLUSION:
The tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL fits the description of God's LAW. GOD'S LAW GIVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and OBEDIENCE to GOD'S LAW is RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS)

The FALSE GOSPEL is the same one spoken to EVE in the Garden of EDEN which was you can break God's Commandments and you will not surely day.


FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN AND FALSE TEACHERS. Click me

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.



Your a funny ONE PS:). This thread is about COL 2 quoting the scripture that the OP is about does not address the scriptures the OP is discussing that disagree with your interpretation of God's WORD. Did you want to finally start addressing the topic and scriptures of the OP that disagree with you now?

Here you go....

1. CLICK ME FOR COL 2:14-17

2. CLICK HERE; WHAT MAKES UP THE OLD COVENANT?

3. CLICK HERE; SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT?.

4. CLICK HERE; WHY THE SABBATH CANNOT BE A CEREMONIAL LAW?

5. CLICK HERE: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ENTER GOD'S REST?

6. CLICK HERE; THE OLD COVENANT LEADS TO THE NEW COVENANT


7. CLICK HERE; GOD’S LAWS BEFORE MOSES AND THE SABBATH IN CREATION

If you disagree with the OP please address the scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of God's WORD.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12).

If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if
we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
Banned: It couldn't happen to a more deserving person!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.
There is nothing to address. Col 2:16 clearly warns us against those who judge others by Old Testament law regarding meat, drink, holydays, new moon, or sabbath days.

So stop laying the law down. Do not judge others and do as the Bible says for goodness sake.

This ends any debate regarding the Sabbath day.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
Don't get caught doing these things and you will not be judged. all these things God hate.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Well that has no truth in it whatsoever. Where does it say in the entire bible that Gods' 4th Commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep the Catholic tradition of Sunday Worship?
the fourth commandment has not been abolished. It is addressed to those within
the Mosaic covenant, for whom it was intended, ISRAEL

As for Sunday worship. that was observed in Acts 20.7. To suggest that it is a 'catholic tradition' is misleading. But the seventh day was NOT a day of worship. It was a day of REST given to ensure slaves benefited also
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,469
13,413
113
58
James 2

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Let's examine James 2:14-26.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

Faith without works is dead, How can you love your brother and not give him a meal when he's hungry or a place to stay at night?
You can't.

Works can't save you, It's only the results of you already being saved.
I've heard numerous SDA's profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to New Testament doctrine with the result being salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
There is nothing to address. Col 2:16 clearly warns us against those who judge others by Old Testament law regarding meat, drink, holydays, new moon, or sabbath days.

.
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to. That is fine because there is no response but to agree. Because it says what it says and there is no way around. Here take a look again.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
The other thread got closed so I'm posting this here for discussion.

Like Moses, Jesus went up on a mountain to give his law to Israel.

​Now [when Jesus] saw the crowds, he went up the mountain and [after he] sat down, his disciples approached him. And opening his mouth he began to teach them, saying, Matthew 5:1-2

And then it went like this:

​“You have heard that it was said to the people of old [by Moses], ‘Do not murder’, but I say to you ..."

The 4th commandment was meant to cause Israel to cease for one day each week from laboring for the things of this world so that they might know GOD. IMO these verses are where Jesus essentially said, ​“You have heard that it was said to the people of old [by Moses], ‘Keep the sabbath holy', but I say to you..."

“No one is able to serve two masters. For either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money.

​“For this [reason] I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, and not for your body, what you will wear. Is your life not more than food and your body [more than] clothing? Consider the birds of the sky, that they do not sow or reap or gather [produce] into barns, and your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth more than they [are]?

And who among you, [by] being anxious, is able to add one hour to his life span?

And why are you anxious about clothing? Observe the lilies of the field, how they grow: they do not toil or spin, but I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory was dressed like one of these. But if God dresses the grass of the field in this way, [although it] is [here] today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not [do so] much more [for] you, you of little faith?

Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?,’ for the pagans seek after all these [things]. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these [things]. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these [things] will be added to you. Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow, because tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matthew 6:24-34

Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. This correlates well with the 4th element of the lord's prayer

Therefore you pray in this way: ​“Our Father (1) who is in heaven (2), may your name be treated as holy (3). May your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as [it is] in heaven (4). Give us today our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. Matthew 6:9-13
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
This is what this issue really boils down to:

Does the law of the spirit of life in Christ allow us to love GOD and mankind, and ignore what day it is?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
There is nothing to address. Col 2:16 clearly warns us against those who judge others by Old Testament law regarding meat, drink, holydays, new moon, or sabbath days.

So stop laying the law down. Do not judge others and do as the Bible says for goodness sake.

This ends any debate regarding the Sabbath day.
While I agree with you this debate has been going on for a long time. This thread will never stop it.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to. That is fine because there is no response but to agree. Because it says what it says and there is no way around. Here take a look again.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.
so the book of the law is being blottted?

what is law?


[h=2]Definition of law[/h]1a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed (see prescribe 1a) or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority
(2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules
  • The courts exist to uphold, interpret, and apply the law.

(3) : common law

b (1) : the control brought about by the existence or enforcement of such law
  • preserved law and order in the town

(2) : the action of laws considered as a means of redressing wrongs; also : litigation
  • developed the habit of going to law over the slightest provocation
  • —H. A. Overstreet

(3) : the agency of or an agent of established law
  • When he saw that the fighting was escalating, he called in the law.


c : a rule or order that it is advisable or obligatory to observe
  • a lawof self-preservation

d : something compatible with or enforceable by established law
  • The decrees were judged not to be law and were therefore rescinded.

e : control, authority
  • The child submits to no law.


2a often capitalized : the revelation of the will of God set forth in the Old Testament b capitalized : the first part of the Jewish scriptures : pentateuch, torah — see bible table

3: a rule of construction or procedure
  • the laws of poetry


4: the whole body of laws relating to one subject
  • criminal law

  • probate law


5a : the legal profession
  • studied for a career in law

b : law as a department of knowledge : jurisprudence
c : legal knowledge
  • a man with much history but little law


6a : a statement of an order or relation of phenomena that so far as is known is invariable under the given conditions
  • a law of thermodynamics

  • Boyle's law

b : a general relation proved or assumed to hold between mathematical or logical expressions

— at law: under or within the provisions of the law
  • enforceable at law


, by this definition , 4 th commandment is a law
mean , include being blotting out.






 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to. That is fine because there is no response but to agree. Because it says what it says and there is no way around. Here take a look again.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.

Read ad the main definition of law dear

Basically, law is a rule that is enforce by authorities,

10 commandment is a rule, not optional but it is enforce, if you not do it you will punished.

if it just a rule, no punishment for violators, it's not a law

10 c is a rule with punishment

it it is a law.

It it has been blotted and fulfill by New Covenant
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
You as of yet have not addressed the points that are made in the posts you are responding to. That is fine because there is no response but to agree. Because it says what it says and there is no way around. Here take a look again.

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is.

Verse 16 makes it clear that the writer of Colossians is referring to the Book of the Law.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)

The word therefore connects verse 16 to verse 14. The ordinances mentioned in verse 16 were handwritten in the book of the Law. Therefore the writer is speaking of the book of the Law in verse 14.
Colossians 2
8-15 Paul issues the first of several warnings (8) and then sets out a positive explanation of God’s work in Christ and the Colossians’ union with him in his death, burial and resurrection (9-15).

8 The Colossians are to be on their guard so that they are not carried away from the truth into the slavery of error. Takes you captive means ‘kidnap’, and the method these false teachers would use is their brand of philosophy (see the Introduction) which was seductive and misleading. As tradition it had the appearance of dignity, authority and revelation, but Paul rejects any suggestion of divine origin: it is simply human. The Greek word stoieheia (basic prinriples) may refer to the ‘principalities and powers’, those demonic, personal forces which oppress men and women. Worst of all, this teaching stood opposed to Christ. Today legalism, justification by works or any teaching that devalues Christ’s saving work on the cross, can be used by the powers of darkness to hold men and women in spiritual slavery.

9-10 Two reasons are given as to why this philosophy is opposed to Christ. First, he is the one in whom the whole fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily, and the false teaching did not recognize this. Fulness was probably a slogan of the false teachers to describe the eternal God who could only be reached by mediators. In later gnostic thought (based on ‘inside knowledge’) Christ was seen as the last in the line of mediators. But Paul states that all the fulness of the divine being or Godhead dwells directly in Christ and that this indwelling is permanent. The expression in bodily form (which could mean ‘actually’ or ‘in concrete reality’, as opposed to mere appearance) is best understood as ‘taking on a bodily form’ and referring to the incarnation. Fullness is to be found only in Christ, not by cringing before the ‘elements of the universe’ or by observing their regulations.

10 Secondly, this false teaching is opposed to Christ because the readers have already been filled in him, i.e. in their union with Christ they have received fulness of salvation. So they do not need to stoop down before the spiritual powers of the universe or to observe their rules to attain this fulness, as the false teaching demanded. The one in whom these believers are complete is the Head, i. e. the ruler over every power and authority 1:18).

11 The theme of union in Christ continues as Paul describes how the readers are linked with the gospel events, i.e. Christ’s death, burial and resurrection (11-13). The reasons for the introduction of circumcision here are not clear: it does not seem to have been demanded by the false teachers (as in the Galatian churches), for if it was we would have expected it to be criticized in vs 16-23. Perhaps the Colossians were confused about the issue. The circumcision done by Christ is a figurative way of referring to his crucifixion, while ‘the putting off of the body of flesh’ is best understood as describing his violent death (though some take it as a reference to putting off the Christian’s old nature). The Colossians were also circumcised in him, that is, they died with Christ in his death. In contrast to Jewish circumcision, theirs was not done by the hands of men; it was a divine work in which God himself made the change from the old life to the new.

12 As the burial of Christ (1 Cor. 15:4) set the seal upon his death, so the Colossians’ burial with him in baptism shows that they were truly involved in his death and laid in his grave. A real death has taken place; so the old life should be a thing of the past (Rom. 6:4). Christ’s resurrection has already occurred; the Colossians too have been raised with him as a past event. The believer’s share in the risen life of Christ finds clear expression in Colossians and Ephesians (cf 3:1; Eph. 2:6), while the power of God is that same power which brought Christ back from the dead and which now energizes all the members of Christ‘s body.

13-14 The standpoint now changes: no longer are the Colossians viewed as having been joined with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. Rather, Paul contrasts their pagan past with the present. Dead points to the state of separation from God as a present condition of those outside of Christ. This dreadful condition had been caused by their sins and the uncircumcision of their sinful nature. Sins are acts of rebellion against God, while sinful nature speaks of a permanent state of disobedience; the Colossians had been both heathen and godless. But now because of the death of Christ, God has made them alive in him. He has graciously forgiven all ‘our’ trespasses (those of ]ews and Gentiles alike) and therefore the cause of spiritual death has been done away. God has not only removed the debt; he has also destroyed the document on which the debt was recorded. (Cheirographon, the written code, means an ‘IOU’, a note that refers to a debt written in one’s own hand as proof of obligation.) The Jews had agreed to obey the law, and in their case the penalty for breaking the contract meant death (Dt. 27:14-26; 30:15-20). Paul also assumes that Gentiles were committed, through their consciences, to a similar obligation, to the moral law insofar as they understood it (cf Rom. 2:14-15). The obligation had not been paid by either group so it stood opposed to us, because of its accompanying regulations. The debt was impossible to pay, but God dealt with it; he had blotted it out and cancelled the bond by nailing it to the cross. This is a vivid way of saying that because Christ was nailed to the cross, our debt has been completely forgiven.

15 The word of the cross was a message of hope for those who lived in fear of evil, supernatural powers. These principalities, who had possessed that written code, had kept us in their grip. Using the picture of a conqueror’s triumphal procession in which captives of war were displayed to magnify the victor’s glory, Paul states that God defeated and disarmed the evil powers of their authority. In making a public spectacle of them he (‘God’ rather than ‘Christ’) exposed to the universe their utter helplessness, leading them ‘in him’ (i.e. ‘Christ’, rather than ‘in it’, the cross; see the NIV mg.) in his triumphal procession so that all the world might see the greatness of his victory.

16-23 Freedom from legalism. In a paragraph that alludes to the teaching and catchwords of the philosophy, Paul sets out ‘a charter of Christian freedom’. Bad theology leads to bad practice! The mistaken ideas about ‘fulness’ and the work of Christ (which the apostle corrects in vs 8-15) have corresponding errors on the practical side. Paul’s criticisms of these wrong practices and the false teachers themselves are devastating.

16-17 In the false teaching it was believed that the Colossians would progress as Christians to ‘fulness’ by keeping certain Jewish food taboos and rigidly observing their special days. These severe regulations of a self-denying kind are, however, a shadow of the things that were to come. Christ and his new order are the perfect reality to which these earlier commandments looked. The reality has already come and the things of the shadow have no binding force; they are no longer a norm for judgment. Any demand today to abstain from certain foods or to keep religious festivals as a requirement for growing as a Christian brings down upon it the same severe criticism.

18 Against the false teachers who boasted in their special spiritual experiences, Paul‘s criticisms are sharp. The rejection of the false teachers’ claims by the apostle are difficult to understand because of our partial knowledge of the practices. Do not let anyone disqualify [‘condemn’] you (cf v 16): Paul quotes slogans of the false teaching which were the basis of the teachers’ position and proud manner. Humility here means ‘self denial’ and describes fasting and other bodily disciplines which were self-denying practices in Jewish, mystical piety that were supposed to open the way for receiving visions of heavenly mysteries.

(New Bible Commentary)
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
LOL?

If someone makes a mistake or is wrong to you in relation to the Word of GOD; it is funny to you?

We are speaking on Colossians 2:14 remember?

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And mind you it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is. Those writings are they which describe the Life which is available to us in Christ Jesus. These and the Decalogue are they which are in our hearts, minds, and mouths though Christ's indwelling.

Let's take a look.

Romans 10:6-8 and Hebrews 8:10 are the same prophecy just spoken differently at different times. Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut. 30:10-14 And Hebrews 8:10 is a paraphrase of Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Let's start in Deut.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep
his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But
the wordis very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand".

With the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.

With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh; manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
I believe that on encountering a belief that is completely opposed to your own belief, one has the option of laughing in derision or weeping in pity. Having exhausted the option of weeping in pity; laughing in derision is all that remains.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
so the book of the law is being blotted?
No The handwriting to the ordinances, not the ordinances themselves and only those that were against us. Not those that showed us what righteousness is. The Life GOD has for us in Christ.

Only Those that dealt with when we sin; the judgments and ceremonial writings tied to the sacrificial system.

The Ordinances; the Word; the Law; Christ is of the New Covenant.

These; HE is nigh unto us. In our hearts, minds, mouths and hands that we do it. The engrafted Word; the new Ministration.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God. For Christ (the Word in our hearts, minds, and mouths that we do it [Rom 10:6-8; Heb 8:10] ) is the end of the (written) Law for righteousness for everyone that believeth.(2Co 3:3-5; Rom 10:4 KJV)
 
Last edited: