GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Jun 5, 2017
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exactly. one should not have to chop the Bible into dozens of pieces, rearrange them, then say " the Bible says " , conjoining verses with no context to attempt to make it say what it does not.
Yes there are many doing this trying to make the Word of God say something that it is not. There is no scripture in the entire bible that says that God's 4th commandment is not ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that leads many to break the commandment of God.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Yes there are many doing this trying to make the Word of God say something that it is not. There is no scripture in the entire bible that says that God's 4th commandment is not ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that leads many to break the commandment of God.
There are very clear Scriptures that Sabbath and any day observing/keeping is not actual.

And nobody here says you must keep Sunday as a holy day. Its only a day Church decided to meet on.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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There are very clear Scriptures that Sabbath and any day observing/keeping is not actual.
And nobody here says you must keep Sunday as a holy day. Its only a day Church decided to meet on.
You are correct as there is no scripture in God's Word that tells us we must now keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching or man that has lead many to break the commandment of God (4th Exodus 20:8-11).

You are wrong however as there is NO scripture in God's Word that says that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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You are correct as there is no scripture in God's Word that tells us we must now keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching or man that has lead many to break the commandment of God (4th Exodus 20:8-11).
I have no idea where you got this teaching,I have never met anybody here saying that Sunday is a holy day and we must keep it, so I think you fight against a wind mill.

You are wrong however as there is NO scripture in God's Word that says that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED...
​"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Law] beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

(Acts 15:28-29)

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."
(Rom 14:5)

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you because of Sabbaths.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

(Col 2:16-17)

...and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday.
I do not know why do you still repeat this. Nobody here says you are commanded to worship God on Sunday. Worship Him on Tuesday or on every day. Does not matter.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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You are wrong however as there is NO scripture in God's Word that says that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED
Galatians 3.16-18.



God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)'
And they are specifically included in God's covenant with ISRAEL.


If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11)
were does James mention ten????

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God.
LOL Acts 20.7.
 
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Galatians 3.16-18.And they are specifically included in God's covenant with ISRAEL.
were does James mention ten???? LOL Acts 20.7.
Well none of those scriptures tell us that God's 4th commandments has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day. Maybe you need to check your scriptures :rolleyes:
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Originally Posted by Grandpa

We aren't under the law anymore to perform it by any carnal means from a carnal understanding.
Only those who have not come to Christ do that. We should focus on what brings Salvation and not work toward "extra credit" until we are certain that we have attained said Salvation.


Grandpa you are only "under the law" if you are sinning and breaking it or relying on it for your salvation without Faith..............
You're under the law if you are still working at it in your own carnal understanding.

Galatians 3:10-11
[FONT=&quot]10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Well none of those scriptures tell us that God's 4th commandments has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day. Maybe you need to check your scriptures :rolleyes:
maybe you need to check your history. gentiles are and were never under the law of Moses. notice how many times the phrase " shall be a statue forever to the nation of Israel ". appears in the Pentateuch.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Well none of those scriptures tell us that God's 4th commandments has now been ABOLISHED
It hasn't been abolished. It has been retained for those for whom it was intended. ISRAEL


and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day.
We are not commanded to keep any specific day as a holy day in the New Testament.

maybe you need to check your scriptures :rolleyes:
maybe you do too,
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

You are wrong however as there is NO scripture in God's Word that says that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED..
​"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Law] beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."
(Acts 15:28-29)
Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15
1, And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2, When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3, And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4, And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

There is no mention in Acts 15 about God's 4th commandment as well as the other nine. Circumcision is was part of the Mosaic law that is fulfilled in Christ (Circumcision of the heart) and the promise of the New Covenant of God's Laws written on the heart (Romans 2:29; Hebrews 8:10-12)

So nope that is not saying the God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.........
"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." (Rom 14:5)
Romans 14 is an interesting chapter that discusses the annual Jewish festivals and holy days, as well as fasting and not eating food from the shambles (food sacrificed to idols) and judging others in relation to the above. There is no mention of God's 4th commandment in the entire Chapter of Romans 14.....
So nope that is not saying the God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.........

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you because of Sabbaths. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." (Col 2:16-17)
Well this only tells me you have not read the OP as you have not answered the OP on the scripture above with is talking about the annual Jewish festivals and holy convocations, which included the new mood and annual Sabbaths that were NOT God's 4th commandment but part of the Mosaic laws written in the book and could fall on ANY Day of the week unlike God's 4th commandment which is EVERY 7th Day (Leviticus 23 see also Wiki). If you read the OP and the scriptures there you would know this seems you have not.

Post # 1
Post # 2
Post # 694

You should at least have a read of the OP on Col 2:14-17 as there is more then 200+ scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures.

So nope that is not saying the God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15
5, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Well this only tells me you have not read the OP as you have not answered the OP...
Your OP is wrong.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
You can worship on any day you want, but the best is to worship Him every day.
From practical reasons, though, Church needed some day to regularly meet on. From obvious reasons Sunday was chosen. Its not any command. If your church meets on Wednesday, its OK.


You should at least have a read of the OP on Col 2:14-17 as there is more then 200+ scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures.
Thats the reason everybody will ignore it. On Bible discussion forum, your posts must be short and to the point, one or three verses and stop. You cannot steal people's time to require them to respond to 200 verses...
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Yes, the Hebrew roots people of their day
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by LoveGodForever
Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15
5, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

you missed the AND lOL
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”[/FONT]

 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."


Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”
Your usual list of uncommented on verses lol
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”[/FONT]

You must read the context, Paul cannot contradict himself in few verses:

---

"Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?
...
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"

R 7:1, 5

---

In your text , Paul is placing himself historically before Christ came. You must understand what you read, not just blindly copy single verses.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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You must read the context, Paul cannot contradict himself in few verses:

---

"Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?
...
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"

R 7:1, 5

---

In your text , Paul is placing himself historically before Christ came. You must understand what you read, not just blindly copy single verses.
and what Law have those in Messiah died to?

The law of Yahshua/Jesus Father?

or the law of sin and death? which is not do not kill, it is the ways of the world, aka transgression/sin.

Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin* that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


*What is sin, that we may not continue in it?


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”


Romans 6:15-23, “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under Torah but under unmerited mercy? Let it not be! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? But thanks to יהוה that you were servants of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of teaching to which you were entrusted. And having been set free from sin, you became servants of righteousness. I speak as a man, because of the weakness of your flesh. For even as you did present your members as servants of uncleanness, and of lawlessness resulting in lawlessness, so now present your members as servants of righteousness resulting in set-apartness. For when you were servants of sin, you were free from righteousness. What fruit, therefore, were you having then, over which you are now ashamed? For the end thereof is death. But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of יהוה, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the favorable gift of Elohim is everlasting life in Messiah יהושע our Master.”


Romans 7 -
7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.


1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."








 
Jun 5, 2017
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You're under the law if you are still working at it in your own carnal understanding.

Galatians 3:10-11
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Hello Grandpa you seem to be still saying the same things; No one here is telling you or anyone else, that we are saved by what we do apart from faith. So your trying to build an argument that is not there and it is what you always try and do. If you have no argument and people believe and agree with the scriptures you have quoted you have nothing to argue about.

ONLY BELIEVERS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH .............

Romans 3
9, What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: FOR WE HAVE BEFORE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GENTILES, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN.

Romans 3
23, FALL ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD;

Romans 3
19, NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SO EVER THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Romans 2
6, He will repay each one according to his works:
7, To them who by patient continuance in WELL DOING seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
8, But unto them that are contentious, and DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, but OBEY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10, But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11, For there is no respect of persons with God.
12, For AS MANY AS HAVE SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW SHALL ALSO PERISH WITHOUT THE LAW: and AS MANY AS HAVE SINNED UNDER THE LAW shall be judged by the law;
13, For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 8
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2,
FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH .
3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH: <Why?>
4, THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Romans 6
12, Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13, Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law <SIN AND DEATH>, but under grace.
15, What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17, But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart <NEW heart> that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

You are under the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH IF YOU ARE LIVING A LIFE OF KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN!

If you have accepted God's gift of Grace by FAITH you are FREE from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH meaning you are NOW FREE NOT TO SIN because you have been forgiven and now have the POWER to walk in NEWNESS of LIFE........

Those living in known UNREPENTANT SIN do NOT KNOW Him who LOVES all and need to SEEK Him in REPENTANCE and CONFESSION of SIN because they do not KNOW God and are NOT FREE from SIN.

1 John 3
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.
Yes, the Hebrew roots people of their day
Originally Posted by LoveGodForever
Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15
5, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.


valiant:
you missed the AND lOL
Didn't miss anything at all the CONTEXT is all provided which you left out of Acts 15. Do you know the law of Moses written in the book has a different purpose to God's Law in the Old Covenant. These were the shadow laws for remission of sin that have their fulfillment in the New Covenant. The book of the law of Moses included circumcision which God's Law (10 commandments) does not. Do you know the purpose and difference between God's Law and the Mosaic laws for remission of sin? If you read the OP you would know but you have not so you come here only with your opinion but no scripture to support what it is you believe and if you do not know the scriptures how can you know Him who loves all and is calling us through His Word? Those that BELIEVE Him follow Him because they are now free to LOVE him because he first loved us... God's sheep hear His voice and follow Him because He is the true Shepard.
 
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